mimic display

[rogerdee]

Hi Guys

 I am after a simple mimic display just led to change colour and  show point position ect  , no switches

does any one do a dcc decoder that would be suitable, I want to keep wiring to panal as simple as poss.

 

thanks

roger

Edited May 27, 2019 by rogerdee
wrong spelling

[Nigelcliffe]

Lots of options, but depends on your current control setup - both the DCC system in use, and how your turnouts are operated, and roughly how many turnouts - explaining what you currently have is needed to get a sensibly precise answer.  

 

 

If turnouts are operated only via DCC (no local push buttons), could use an accessory decoder, designed for continuous output (eg. those suited to stall motors like Tortoise) and connect the LEDs to the outputs.  But it could get expensive if you have lots of turnouts, and moderately messy.   A dedicated bit of hardware (not difficult with, eg. an Arduino) could reduce the cost and complexity.

 

If you have frog polarity switching installed (or equivalent switches) on the turnout mechanism/motors, could use those to switch LEDs.  But the amount of wire involved could make it very messy. 

 

If your system uses certain DCC systems, then there are products to do exactly what you want, but usually tied to a specific interconnection method. 

 

Could use a cheap tablet computing device, and run some software to monitor the turnouts - no wiring whatsoever.  

 

 

 

- Nigel

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

If your points are operated by DCC and all you want is a mimic panel with LED’s to show what routes/points are set, then the solution is very simple and available off-the-shelf.

 

DCC Concepts Alpha Mimic does just that.

The electronic module reads or eavesdrops the DCC commands being sent out when you change points, or set routes via your DCC system.

It then illuminates the appropriate LED’s on your mimic panel.

There is an initial set-up, when you program which LED output corresponds to which point setting, but once done, the Alpha Mimic just reads the DCC command traffic and responds to the address it recognises.

 

This kit works with virtually any DCC system.

 

Ron

['CHARD]

Minic display is a very misleading typo in the subject line, worth correcting I reckon.

 

[newbryford]

55 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

If your points are operated by DCC and all you want is a mimic panel with LED’s to show what routes/points are set, then the solution is very simple and available off-the-shelf.

 

DCC Concepts Alpha Mimic does just that.

The electronic module reads or eavesdrops the DCC commands being sent out when you change points, or set routes via your DCC system.

It then illuminates the appropriate LED’s on your mimic panel.

There is an initial set-up, when you program which LED output corresponds to which point setting, but once done, the Alpha Mimic just reads the DCC command traffic and responds to the address it recognises.

 

This kit works with virtually any DCC system.

 

Ron

 

I'll second the Alpha Mimic system.

A minor limitation of it, is that it uses 12 sequential addresses, (you set the initial start address of the board) but this isn't a problem if it is planned in from the start and your DCC accessories are programmed accordingly. And then again, it'snot usually a big deal to re-adress accessories.

 

All it takes is two wires from the DCC bus to the Mimic control board - the supplied LEDs are plug-in.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[WIMorrison]

if you're using Lenz then this is an option also

 

https://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/lenz-lw150-mimic-panel-module-1779-c.asp

[Ron Ron Ron]

3 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

if you're using Lenz then this is an option also

 

https://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/lenz-lw150-mimic-panel-module-1779-c.asp

 

The Lenz LW150 will do the job, but it's the equivalent of the DCC Concepts Cobalt Alpha, used for operating via panel switches (with LED's), rather than the simpler and lower cost Alpha Mimic (LED only).

Alpha Mimic is about half the cost and can be used with virtually any DCC system, including Lenz. No special interfaces or anything else required.

 

n.b. The OP is only looking for a mimic display without switches.

 

 

.

[rogerdee]

Sorry guys.

 

I have about 12 points all dcc controlled in hidden siding's and am using a nce powercab .

All I want is to have led's on my track map no switches and for the just to change when I change the points .

I am looking for something as simple as possible with a little wiring to my track map as possiable.

[Ron Ron Ron]

rogerdee, see the 3rd post.

 

Simple, only 2 wires to your accessory or track power bus.

Make your own mimic panel and fit the supplied LED’s, which come with connecting wires.

Mostly all plug-in.

The LED’s plug into the Alpha Mimic module, which is connected to the accessory or track power bus with 2 wires.

 

The Alpha Mimic simply eavesdrops, or reads the DCC commands sent out from the PowerCab and illuminates the appropriate LED’s on the mimic panel display.

 

There is initial set up, when you teach the module which lights are associated with which point commands.

Apart from that, it’s relatively straightforward.

 

 

Ron

[JohnDMJ]

On 24/05/2019 at 12:46, Ron Ron Ron said:

If your points are operated by DCC and all you want is a mimic panel with LED’s to show what routes/points are set, then the solution is very simple and available off-the-shelf.

 

DCC Concepts Alpha Mimic does just that.

The electronic module reads or eavesdrops the DCC commands being sent out when you change points, or set routes via your DCC system.

It then illuminates the appropriate LED’s on your mimic panel.

There is an initial set-up, when you program which LED output corresponds to which point setting, but once done, the Alpha Mimic just reads the DCC command traffic and responds to the address it recognises.

 

This kit works with virtually any DCC system.

 

Ron

 

As said, the Alpha Mimic only reacts to the DCC signal sent to the points. It provides NO guarantee that the point has actually changed, it simply assumes!

 

TBH, you're better off with a simple LED circuit operated by the switch on the point motor. Works a treat if you're using SEEP PM1 motors with a built-in mechanical switch.

 

Alternatively, consider using some of the MERG circuits.

[Phil S]

The OP requested advice on a simple to implement Mimic Display with purely visual feedback display of settings.   As already suggested, the ideal off-the-shelf solution at present is the Alpha modules and LEDs / ground signals provided by DCC Concepts:      If you search around the various packs may be on offer at discounted prices - but ensure you buy at least 1 with a  control module included.   You will want 'continuous sequential addressing' to make the most efficient use - ie  no gaps in your numbering, because each control module is configured for a single starting address, and the the rest follow sequentially.

[When Zero-1's micromimic originally came out, I had to renumber my points and signals to have no gaps in the sequence, instead of starting each station with an easy to remember number 8-).    FYI, I've attached my Zero-1's Micromimic Display of (130) points and signals (using addresses 1-99. This was plug and play.  

The alpha version is simpler,in that the Control modules work off the same DCC bus as the rest of the layout - with Zero-1 there was a separated display bus.

It is easily expanded AND has the additional benefit that the same modules can be used for ground signals.  They have 2 outputs per address.

 

WHAT IS HIGHLY DESIRABLE with a situation like this is, in my view, a portable handheld controller ( eg Multimaus, Tablet, Smart Phone etc) which can provide BOTH  Loco  AND accessory control --- so that you can make the best use of moving around the layout - with a large display visible from anywhere.

The alternative to a Physical MIMIC PANEL is the 'glass box' panel - previously a TV/VDU but can be a touch screen desk monitor OR a tablet - with the software providing as many display 'LEDs' as desired, at no additional expense !!   Eg using a Z21 and a cheap Android Panel (10" touch screen).

Would I build another Micromimic like my 2m long one above ? - No - now I use large screen LED-lit LCD TV panels which weigh LESS and can be changed if I modify the layout, and also be used for other inputs - like a Junction monitor camera, or listening to the radio while working on the layout 8-)

in my view, the idea of switches individually mounted on them 'to show that they really changed' would be asking for a ludicrous amount of extra wiring to get them back to a panel - and using none of the advantages of dcc which ALSO benefits point and signal control !! -- when, as has been suggested several times, only a pair of wires operating off the dcc bus is required - giving a parallel indication of the point position: -A model railway is not a life-critical system where lives are at risk if a point occasionally fails - and anyway - ears give a good indication of point operation ! -- when a point is thrown - listen to it move:  [ My present layout has many more points and signals than that Zero-1 diagram version ]

 

In the garden, where we are most likely to suffer failure of a point to move - usually due to willow catkins having fallen into a point - I usually operate them 3 times if uncertain - to hear it move, move back, and then move again - I would suggest this is more reliable than trying to mechanically add switches - which are just another possible point of failure - into the system. [ If your mechanism is so unreliable that you have doubts on its operation - choose a different make or design of point motor !! ]  Indoors, unless the over-centre-spring on a point is mis-adjusted, and a point 'bounces' rather than changes properly - it is better to fix the root of the problem than add more to go wrong or give incorrect indication.  [ For my Roco GEOline points, I had some which produced a buzzing with the LS150, but since changing them to Train Tech DCC CDU modules, I have had no problems - or an initially nerve-racking delay while the capacitor charged before the point fired across ! ]     [ Veissmann point motors 4554 actually have Railcom feedback built in to identify their movement - but that is not a cheap solution !!]   HD CCTV cameras are another cheap option for confirming actual point position - 1 wire can cover a whole junction !

 

Edited May 27, 2019 by Phil S

[Ron Ron Ron]

 

7 hours ago, rogerdee said:

Sorry guys.....

....All I want is to have led's on my track map no switches and for them just to change when I change the points .

I am looking for something as simple as possible with a little wiring to my track map as possible.

 

If you're still there Roger, I hope you got something relevant from asking your question.   

 

Cheers

Ron

 

 

..

[newbryford]

16 hours ago, Phil S said:

  -A model railway is not a life-critical system where lives are at risk if a point occasionally fails

 

 

 

Well said that man.

(Although the way some people bang on about it, you'd think lives were at risk)

[rogerdee]

Thanks guys

Before I changed my layout my old one had attached relays and switches to the points and a rats nest of wiring .

I think I had about 60 separate wires going to the board  being half analogue and half dcc .

so now I am trying to embrace Dcc fully and get the most out of it.

[newbryford]

1 minute ago, rogerdee said:

Thanks guys

Before I changed my layout my old one had attached relays and switches to the points and a rats nest of wiring .

I think I had about 60 separate wires going to the board  being half analogue and half dcc .

so now I am trying to embrace Dcc fully and get the most out of it.

 

For £50 (probably less if you can find a discounted one). Alpha Mimic is perfect to display the point commands of the DCC system.

https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/alpha-mimic-panel-controller-red-leds/

There are green and green/red versions available)

 

You get 24 LEDs and a control board. It is a 12 way accessory decoder.

This will show  the status of 12 points (or more accurately - commands to points)

Wiring is as simple as Ron says above.

Two wires from your DCC bus connect to the control board.

The LEDs plug in, two per point - if the wires to the LEDs aren't long enough, you can extend them by either splicing in new wire, or plug-in extensions cables.

 

The time consuming factor is making the woodwork and diagram, or whatever you are going to mount the LEDs on. (And that's going to be the same, whatever system you use)

The actual wiring will take less than 30 minutes.

[Imustbemadatmyage]

Possibly OT but I have the dc version of the alpha mimic board and the leds on that are also the switches. It is ridiculously easy to set up, being plug and play. The dcc version (which I considered, but decided that my small dcc layout didn’t need the complexity of dcc points) appears to be even easier. 

[Ron Ron Ron]

4 hours ago, Imustbemadatmyage said:

......I have the dc version of the alpha mimic board and the leds on that are also the switches. .......

 

Strictly speaking, that's the analogue version of the Alpha Switch, not the Alpha Mimic.

It serves a slightly different purpose, as you say, it controls points as well as providing a mimic display.

Glad to hear it works well.

 

 

 

.

[Brian]

One possible option may be is to use the DCC itself to power the LEDs?  Especially if you only have a few to illuminate.

This might give an idea? ... Link to DCC indications

[Ron Ron Ron]

35 minutes ago, Brian said:

One possible option may be is to use the DCC itself to power the LEDs?  Especially if you only have a few to illuminate.

This might give an idea? ... Link to DCC indications

 

Isn't that completely contrary to the OP's requirement Brian?

 

 

.

[peach james]

(if you are using Digitrax)

Tower Controller TC64 provides 64 LED outputs without further modules.  

 

http://www.rr-cirkits.com/description/index.html

 

Again, this is another option for a way to do what you are asking.  Not _the_ answer, which would appear to be Cobalt Alpha Mimic for what you are trying to do.

 

James

[sharris]

On 27/05/2019 at 16:41, Phil S said:

A model railway is not a life-critical system where lives are at risk if a point occasionally fails

 

Really? I run three point control systems in parallel with a voting discriminator at the points in case one of them is sending the wrong signals. 

 

[Brian]

On 24/05/2019 at 12:20, rogerdee said:

Hi Guys

 I am after a simple mimic display just led to change colour and  show point position ect  , no switches

does any one do a dcc decoder that would be suitable, I want to keep wiring to panal as simple as poss.

 

thanks

roger

 

3 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

Isn't that completely contrary to the OP's requirement Brian?

 

 

.

Dont think so Ron? 

Changes LED colour or can use separate LEDs. No decoder needed. No switches needed. Keeps wiring simple! 

All DCC operated.  Did I miss something?

Otherwise use an accessory decoder such as the DCC Concepts AD-S2 or 8sx (when available)

Edited May 29, 2019 by Brian
Update to text to include ADS reference

[Brian]

On 27/05/2019 at 14:05, rogerdee said:

Sorry guys.

 

I have about 12 points all dcc controlled in hidden siding's and am using a nce powercab .

All I want is to have led's on my track map no switches and for the just to change when I change the points .

I am looking for something as simple as possible with a little wiring to my track map as possiable.

Sorry this quote ended up in a new post!  But refers to the above from myself.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Brian

[JohnGi]

4 hours ago, sharris said:

On 27/05/2019 at 16:41, Phil S said:

A model railway is not a life-critical system where lives are at risk if a point occasionally fails -

 

Really? I run three point control systems in parallel with a voting discriminator at the points in case one of them is sending the wrong signals. 

 

 

I have 1:76 scale funerals for all the victims of my point failures 

Edited May 29, 2019 by JohnGi

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, JohnGi said:

 

I have 1:76 scale funerals for all the victims of my point failures 

 

Make sure you dig exactly 1:76  6ft deep graves,.

You don't want to upset the rivet counting, accuracy zealots and attract sneering and pointing in your direction.

 

.