LNWR London Road - Locomotives and rolling stock

[Daddyman]

Many thanks for that, Jol. 

It's a similar idea to that used on the 52F Models ex-NBR C15. 

[Norton961]

As the person responsible for the design of the front bogie arrangement of the BM POW/Experiment/Precursor/George V I should explain the thinking behind it. Remember that the kit was designed over 25 years ago and Jim Barnes and I wanted to get away from the then "standard" bogie arrangement which had the bogie "floating" around in the air and not carrying any of the locos weight. I basically stole the idea of the BM bogie from Guy Williams book. The design solved the problem of supporting the weight of the front of the loco but it had a built in resistance to sideways movement, better but not perfect. As Jol has said it has been now further revised since LRM have taken on the chassis. As an aside the kits were ariginally supplied with some nice then walled brass tube for the boiler but this then became unobtainable so we were forced to fall back on thick walled copper tube which was not ideal. The thin walled brass tube is now avaliable again so that problem is solved.

[Penlan]

I used the BM bogie on my Millholme Models 4-6-2 'Superheater Tank' (Prince?).

Never regretted it, the loco glides along.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Something to go with the Precursor.

 

  

 

 

This is a model of a LNWR/WCJS D10 dining saloon. Built from a Modellers World D9 kit, with a Bill Bedford narrow vestibule etch for the ends and running on Masokits sprung bogies.The carriage sides needed some lower beading removed and the ends also needed modifying a bit as there were a couple of errors. The D10's were 8' 6" wide - rather than the 9' of the D9 - which is useful as the profiled wooden roof ( with etched clerestory side overlays) is correct for the narrower body.

 

Nearly finished are two Brian Badger kits for a WCJS 42' arc roof brake/third and a 42' composite, plus a 50' brake/third from a set of Trevor Charlton etched zinc sides/ends.

[Penlan]

Jol, presumably this is the D9 type, though I have it on LMS bogies, I acquired this some 30+ years ago,  

as an in-complete kit, the owner gave up on the multi-layers of brass, I didn't get on with the original

white metal bogies, so have these compensated LMS ones.

Nobody's noticed and difficult to spot by a platform or trundling along.
I must get the interior finished, soon, and perhaps do some repair work on the roof.

 

Your photo is obviously catching the West Coast setting sun, mine seems to be in some bleak,dour place.. 

 

PS - The hose pipes etc., are in a similar format to yours, the 'coupling'.

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by Penlan

[Jol Wilkinson]

Sandy,

 

very nice.

 

The only 4mm LNWR/.WCJS twelve wheel diner kit was, AFAIK, the Modellers World D9, so that is probably what you have.

 

The profile milled wooden roof was too narrow and Barry Stevenson of Stevenson Carriages produced a cast resin version. I don't know if it is still available but the one I bought became banana shaped (it was already that colour) and developed some cracked so I gave up with it and decided to convert the kit to a D10 when I found the - no longer available - BB narrow vestibule etc.

 

Jol

[Brassey]

Sandy,

 

very nice.

 

The only 4mm LNWR/.WCJS twelve wheel diner kit was, AFAIK, the Modellers World D9, so that is probably what you have.

 

The profile milled wooden roof was too narrow and Barry Stevenson of Stevenson Carriages produced a cast resin version. I don't know if it is still available but the one I bought became banana shaped (it was already that colour) and developed some cracked so I gave up with it and decided to convert the kit to a D10 when I found the - no longer available - BB narrow vestibule etc.

 

Jol

 

Jol

 

I bought one of these when 247 Developments were still doing kits.  The origins of which are probably Modellers World.  Will have to check the roof at some point.  I've also got hold of the Masokits bogies; another one on the todo list.

 

Cheers

 

Peter

[coachmann]

I think I had the short wheelbase LNWR 6-wheel bogie in my Larriparts range. Just a thought, but couldn't the extruded Cove roof be used for the LNWR clerestory roof. That would never go out of shape and building a clerestory on top of this roof should be a doddle.

[Penlan]

Jol, when I saw your D10, I thought ".. those panels under the twin sets of windows look a bit long.."
based on the thought that somewhere in the long ago past .... 

I recalled there was a maximum length of panel Wolverton could produce.

It's on page 17, second column of 'A Register of West Coast Joint Stock', a HMRS publication.
It states 'The maximum length of an unbroken panel below the waist was 10' 6",

which was presumably the largest size which could be made in one piece'.  I can't see a note re. longer panels there.

Then looking through Jenkinson's '..Illustrated History of LNWR Coaches.....',

I see the D10 in fact has the said panel's 13' 3.5" c/c of the mouldings,

so evidently they were soon able to roll the longer panels, and thus your D10 with the long panels.
I'm beginning to think at 74,  I maybe need to get a life..   
 

[Jol Wilkinson]

Jol

 

I bought one of these when 247 Developments were still doing kits.  The origins of which are probably Modellers World.  Will have to check the roof at some point.  I've also got hold of the Masokits bogies; another one on the todo list.

 

Cheers

 

Peter

Peter,

 

I think you may be right about your kits origin but they have now "disappeared". I believe Errol Surman retained the rights to the etched carriage sides in the 247 range when he sold it to Gary Wells, although Gary still supplied them. When 247 recently passed to Brian Mosby they became no longer available (Errol Surman possibly wanted too much income from them - not an unknown situation). The history of many of the early LNWR 4mm etched coach kits and sides available from Jackson-Evans, Microrail, Brian Badger, David Gillot, Modellers World and possibly others, is rather hazy. 

 

I think I had the short wheelbase LNWR 6-wheel bogie in my Larriparts range. Just a thought, but couldn't the extruded Cove roof be used for the LNWR clerestory roof. That would never go out of shape and building a clerestory on top of this roof should be a doddle.

Larry,

 

Barrie Stevenson wrote a piece in one of the magazines (possibly Model Railways) on creating a roof using a cove roof extrusion and the etched clerestory sides from the kit. Unfortunately I no longer have a copy. From memory he took a section out of the centre of the roof so that the area between the clerestory sides was open. Whether that was because the roof width needed modifying I can't recall. He then started to produce and sell the cast resin roof which was solid.

 

BS also produced resin roofs for the 50' Brake Van and 50' "Boff" Bicycle Van, but these were 4mm too long for the etched sides! I still haven't got around to building mine yet.

 

Jol, when I saw your D10, I thought ".. those panels under the twin sets of windows look a bit long.."

based on the thought that somewhere in the long ago past .... 

I recalled there was a maximum length of panel Wolverton could produce.

It's on page 17, second column of 'A Register of West Coast Joint Stock', a HMRS publication.

It states 'The maximum length of an unbroken panel below the waist was 10' 6",

which was presumably the largest size which could be made in one piece'.  I can't see a note re. longer panels there.

Then looking through Jenkinson's '..Illustrated History of LNWR Coaches.....',

I see the D10 in fact has the said panel's 13' 3.5" c/c of the mouldings,

so evidently they were soon able to roll the longer panels, and thus your D10 with the long panels.

I'm beginning to think at 74,  I maybe need to get a life..   

 

Sandy, 

 

I took the panel beading locations from the Jenkinson photo, removing the unwanted sections carefully - although there are still some marks on a couple of the panels. However, I have now got a rare 4mm model of a 12 wheel diner.

 

Thinking? It's bad for you. Just get on with model making and leave the thinking to the RTR collectors trying to work out what they want the manufacturers to make for them next.

[Brassey]

I think I had the short wheelbase LNWR 6-wheel bogie in my Larriparts range. Just a thought, but couldn't the extruded Cove roof be used for the LNWR clerestory roof. That would never go out of shape and building a clerestory on top of this roof should be a doddle.

 

I've checked my more recent kit and it does indeed have an extruded aluminium roof though the instructions refer to a wooden one!

[coachmann]

Since my previous post in which I was fighting off sleep, I realised the LNWR 12-wheel clerestory roof coaches were 8' 6" wide. The PC Models/Wheeltapper cove extrusion is for 9' wide coaches, so I can see why Barry S. took a slice out of the middle. The clerestory would hide the join.

 

When I cut a roof down its centre-line, I covered the join on the underside with a strip of brass sheet and screwed the two halves of roof to it using 14BA countersunk screws. The heads were filled with Milliput and the whole roof smoothed down. It was intended to produce a resin roof from it for MR clerestory coaches, but I went on to produce LMS stock instead.

[Brassey]

Since my previous post in which I was fighting off sleep, I realised the LNWR 12-wheel clerestory roof coaches were 8' 6" wide. The PC Models/Wheeltapper cove extrusion is for 9' wide coaches, so I can see why Barry S. took a slice out of the middle. The clerestory would hide the join.

 

When I cut a roof down its centre-line, I covered the join on the underside with a strip of brass sheet and screwed the two halves of roof to it using 14BA countersunk screws. The heads were filled with Milliput and the whole roof smoothed down. It was intended to produce a resin roof from it for MR clerestory coaches, but I went on to produce LMS stock instead.

 

Thanks Larry, I now have a fighting chance of completing this kit.  Peter

[Jol Wilkinson]

According to Jenkinson, the D9 Diners were 9' wide. This width was apparently used on the D35A Clerestory Diners built in 1903 - 4, then the D9 and the subsequent elliptical roof dining carriages.

 

The wooden profiled roof supplied for the D9 Modellers World kit is actually for a 8' 6" coach. This confirms my recollection that the B Stevenson article was actually about widening the roof, using the cove roof aluminium extrusion.

 

So the wooden roof fits the W10, with its narrow body and vestibules. One way I read about to to widen the roof was to stick a piece of .5mm thin ply (obtainable from a model boat supplier) under the roof to widen it by 1.0mm either side, filling and contouring the roof edge to suit.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Jol Wilkinson

[coachmann]

According to Jenkinson, the D9 Diners were 9' wide. This width was apparently used on the D35A Clerestory Diners built in 1903 - 4, then the D9 and the subsequent elliptical roof dining carriages.

Correct and thanks. I must have had the D4's with narrow vestibule mind. At 9' wide, this makes the later clerestory 12-wheelers even easier to roof using the cove extrusion. 

[John lewsey]

Your models are superb Jol

[Jol Wilkinson]

Your models are superb Jol

John,

 

thank you but I regard my model making and models as only average. They are intended to be what are normally regarded as "layout" models so meeting the "2 feet rule".

 

I have been fortunate to know some people that I regard as exceptional modellers, including the late John Hayes. I wouldn't put my models in the same category as what he produced but I hope my models and occasional article has motivated and helped people to have a go at making models, trying something apparently difficult, etc. I find today's "collector" approach to model railways rather depressing, where people who claim to be modellers put more effort into pounding the keyboard creating wishlists, rather than getting on with making what they so desperately want.

 

Jol

[Penlan]

..... I find today's "collector" approach to model railways rather depressing.....

I recently acquired some limited edition wagons, complete with certificates etc., and promptly binned the paperwork and stripped off the chassis', replacing the latter with ones more appropriate.

At a show, where I had lent some of my stock to a layout, somebody enquired if I still had the Collectors wagons as well, and would I like to sell them, I advised them "yes, that's them there >>>>" and "no" and explained why.

It's a long time somebody's talked to me like that, and got away with it....

 

Edited May 2, 2017 by Penlan

[Jol Wilkinson]

Some more carriages completed so I took some rather indifferent photos.

 

Two WCJS 42' arc roof corridor coaches, a Brake Third W68 and Composite W54. Both Brian Badger kits, with BB or MJT bogies and Brassmasters "fixed" coupling to run with the D10 diner.

 

 

 

LRM D221 50' Arc roof slip carriage.

 

 

A LRM 42' Bk/3rd and a Microrail 42' Lav Composite. The latter was a strip and repaint as the original varnish coat had "yellowed" badly. I replaced the original radial underframe with a LRM bogie underframe and BB bogies for better running (some originals were upgraded to bogie underframes). I also modelled it with the additional third class lavatories as shown by the extra frosted windows.

 

 

 

[Brassey]

John,

 

thank you but I regard my model making and models as only average. They are intended to be what are normally regarded as "layout" models so meeting the "2 feet rule".

 

I have been fortunate to know some people that I regard as exceptional modellers, including the late John Hayes. I wouldn't put my models in the same category as what he produced but I hope my models and occasional article has motivated and helped people to have a go at making models, trying something apparently difficult, etc. I find today's "collector" approach to model railways rather depressing, where people who claim to be modellers put more effort into pounding the keyboard creating wishlists, rather than getting on with making what they so desperately want.

 

Jol

 

Jol

 

You do yourself a disservice.  An "average" modeller cannot produce work of this quality and also produce articles about it in the modelling press that we all follow with enthusiasm.  Plus design etched kits too!

 

Your work is first class and truly an inspiration. 

 

Cheers

 

Peter

[Jol Wilkinson]

Thank you Peter, very much appreciated.

 

I think that while the average "modeller" might not produce comparable models, I still don't consider my work as anything exceptional against those "model makers" whose work I have seen.

 

As a model maker you have to be willing to learn new skills//techniques and stretch yourself. I applaud anyone who will have a go and am happy to think that I may have helped a few along the way.

 

Jol

[John lewsey]

Hi Jol

 

Your modelling is superb and you certainly helped me when I was learning how to paint coaches. Many thanks

John

 

I do want to pick up a slip coach at Aylesbury

Edited May 3, 2017 by John lewsey

[Penlan]

Some more carriages completed so I took some rather indifferent photos.

 

LRM D221 50' Arc roof slip carriage.

 

D221 50' Slip.jpg

For a moment I thought it was a D249..

The late Geoff Williams had one on Aylesbury,

and I borrowed his GA drawing* to make up one too,

The sides are Trevor Charlton etches he did for Geoff, and thus myself, later, the rest, more or less is Ratio.....

However the LRM's D221 is the later conversion of the D249,

so I haven't really got a ".. you won't see many of these.." model.

In fact comparing the two pictures, I'm not sure what the modifications are (1:1 scale).

Apart from the fact the D221 has top openings to the toilet windows, not on the original D249 GA drawing*.

Mine also has the LNWR coat of arms 'etched' into the toilet window glass as per the D249. 

Jenkinson, in 'An illustrated History ....' states, '..originally slip coaches, converted to orthodox form', perhaps they removed the slip apparatus.  The coupling hook is different at the guards end between D249 & D221.

Presumably the vacuum brake pipe linkage would be different too. 

* GA Drawing, this was a LNWR original drawing from Wolverton, and if I recall correctly, was some 4' x 3' in size.

 

 

PS - Looking at the photo, I see mine's 'un-braked', I've left off the brake shoes, to much of a faddle..

Edited May 3, 2017 by Penlan

[John lewsey]

Hi Jol

 

 

Are the Stevenson / Brian Badger coaches still available I would like to do an Arc roof corridor train

Joh

Edited May 3, 2017 by John lewsey

[John lewsey]

The brake pipe running under the foot boards is a nice touch

John