Confidence

[HereticUK]

Hello everyone. I have a somewhat serious topic, I am afraid...

 

How often do you come up with a grand plan for something (for example, a layout) and then suddenly lose all confidence that you have got the right idea?

 

I have a plan for something that I want to do with my recent renewed motivation for model railways, but every time I sit and think about it, or make a plan for it, it always seems that I am wasting my time or that I am being an idiot and that my plan is stupid. I worry that my plan isn't interesting enough for me and that any way to make my plan more interesting would require a room the size of Wales (a slight exaggeration, but you understand what I mean).

 

Yesterday I spent the evening reading and making plans and I felt really good about it. this morning, I made the plan in SCARM and it's about 6 metres long and feels too basic for me.

 

Am I alone in this feeling or does this happen to everyone?

Edited August 8, 2019 by HereticUK
Some spelling corrections.

[Londontram]

Join the club my friend, I've built some beautiful layouts in my mind but mostly that's as far as it gets.

 I had to sit down a couple of years ago and have a serious think about what I wanted and what was unachievable. I'm pretty sure where I'm going and am now at the material gathering stage but trust me your not alone I'm only at this stage after years of indecision.

[woodenhead]

It's a big club you've joined, there are more people like this than you realise.

 

As Londontram says, planning and keeping over ambitious ideas in check.

[Guest JiLo]

Happens to us all, I think the period between plan and build is the most dangerous for losing our mojo.  What I tend to do is ask myself....

 

Which sphere of model railways I enjoy the most (for me its shunting, goods trains followed closely by parcels trains)

What space do I have

What era do I like best

What stock to I want to run

What layouts do I gravitate towards at an exhibition

 

I then design a plan - not to scale, or 2 or 3.... and usually end up with a plan containing elements from them all, then try and fit that plan into the space I have available, if I cant, then I drop off bits that are duplicated or not needed for operation.  To give you an example, my current (under construction layout) started off as an 11ft x 6ft u-shape, with a goods yard, mainline and parcels depot.  By taking into consideration layout storage and transportation, stock I have at the moment vs stock I would need for the whole plan, I now have this down to a 6ft by 15" goods yard.  This gives me what I need, a line for trains to arrive and depart, and some sidings to shunt the stock around in.  I can also easily change it from a goods to parcels scenario.  I've designed my layout to be extendable and I've recently been sketching another layout that will incorporate it, eventually taking me back to the 11ft x 6ft u-shape.

 

You've said your plan was too basic, remember you dont need to cram lots in to make a layout interesting, put thought into the design, give your stock destinations, design the track plan so that it has to be 'worked'  The key element of my layout is the arrival/departure siding, this is the same length as the fiddle yard (sector plate), however the headshunt is shorter and not all wagons can go in all sidings, this means the incoming trains have to be broken up and shunted around.  I have a steel loading shed, a general loading dock and a distribution warehouse siding

 

Once you have the basics, draw the plan full size and work some stock on it, then when fine tuned, get the boards built asap.  Seeing the layout start shape, even at baseboard stage, is a major boost

[HereticUK]

As they say: misery loves company, and so it's somewhat comforting to read that I am not alone in this.

 

Perhaps I should explain my specific problem in a little more detail in order to get some advice, if I may.

 

I have always been interested in larger scales. My grandfather started me with HO (Fleischmann) and OO (Bachmann and Hornby), but I was always fascinated with O. Recently, I decided to realise my dream and get into O gauge. I bought the Gaugemaster Brighton Works Starter Set, and then a Dapol brake van, some more track and a Minerva Victory.

 

Basically, I broke the (seemingly) cardinal rule of modelling - eyes wider than your stomach. I bought first and started planning afterwards. Now that I have these plans in my mind (I am rather pleased with the overall idea that I have), I realise that O gauge is far too big for what I actually want to do. If I went to OO, I could have everything I wanted. In other words, I am starting to feel like I regret being so hasty and wasting so much money... I promised my partner that I would do something with these things (before I made the purchases), and I feel like I am breaking my promise to her with all these thoughts.

Edited August 8, 2019 by HereticUK
Spelling corrections.

[Guest JiLo]

I forgot to add - try base your initial plan on a layout that you like, and then modify it.  The basis of mine is the oft copied Inglenook

 

Seething Lane

[Stubby47]

Build something small first, which could be a completely stand alone project or could be incorporated into a bigger scheme later.

 

Something like one of NHY 581's  Sheep Chronicles layouts, or just a simple halt & siding.

 

Get a feel for what you actually like doing, before committing to a large layout.

 

I'm still working towards 'the ultimate', it's a few years off yet.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Stubby47

[Guest JiLo]

2 minutes ago, HereticUK said:

As they say: misery loves company, and so it's somewhat comforting to read that I am not a lone in this.

 

Perhaps I should explain my specific problem in a little more detail in order to get some advice, if I may.

 

I have always been interested in larger scales. My grandfather started me with HO (Fleischmann) and OO (Bachmann and Hornby), but I was always fascinated with O. Recently, I decided to realise my dream and get into O gauge. I bought the Gaugemaster Brighton Works Starter Set, and then a Dapol brake van, some more track and a Minerva Victory.

 

Basically, I broke the (seemingly) cardinal rule of modelling - eyes wider than your stomach. I bought first and started planning afterwards. Now that I have these plans in my mind (I am rather pleased with the overall idea that I have), I realise that O gauge is far too big for what I actually want to do. If I went to OO, I could have everything I wanted. In other words, I am starting to feel like I regret being so hasty and wasting so much money... I promised my partner that I would do something with these things (before I made the purchases), and I feel like I am breaking my promise to her with all these thoughts.

You can build a good 7mm layout in a small space, what type of layout do you want to have, maybe we can give you ideas?

 

Dont be disheartened, and if you do change scales, you havent wasted the money - there is always a healthy 2nd hand market in 7mm.  I recently sold off all my 7mm items, from track to locos and I dont think I lost more than 50 quid overall.

[jonny777]

46 minutes ago, HereticUK said:

Hello everyone. I have a somewhat serious topic, I am afraid...

 

How often do you come up with a grand plan for something (for example, a layout) and then suddenley lose all confidence that you have got the right idea?

 

I have a plan for something that I want to do with my recent renewed motivation for model railways, but everytime I sit and think about it, or make a plan for it, it always seems that I am wasting my time or that I am being an idiot and that my plan is stupid. I worry that my plan isn't interesting enough for me and that any way to make my plan more interesting would require a room the size of Wales (a slight exaggeration, but you understand what I mean).

 

Yesterday I spent the evening reading and making plans and I felt really good about it. this morning, I made the plan in SCARM and it's about 6 metres long and feels too basic for me.

 

Am I alone in this feeling or does this happen to everyone?

 

 

No, you are not alone. 

 

I have spent decades with plans which seem brilliant in my head, but then something triggers a spell of practicality and I realise everything is not going to work. Then I think that a much more compact but sensible plan will not be interesting enough to keep me occupied for more than a few minutes. 

 

My take on this, is that the feelings vary depending on what kind of modeller you are. Some folk love track construction and making buildings for layouts. For me, operation and using my imagination to create everyday scenarios which would necessitate running various combinations of locos and stock are the main priorities; and these do not involve layout design or construction. 

 

I would be happy to be plonked in front of a completed four track mainline, junction station with loco shed and goods yard; then just run my stock on it how I fancy. 

 

This means that my plans cannot be fulfilled until I have done the bits that I don't particularly like (I am too short of cash to have it all done for me) in the space that I have which is really too small for my imagination to run riot. 

 

I'm sure there are many others in my position, and it is a question of trying to adapt the imagination until it hits on an idea which will maintain interest for lengthy periods. Not easy, I can assure you. Maybe we can form a self help group for those wanting to model New England but actually having enough space for Stamford East. 

 

[HereticUK]

6 minutes ago, JiLo said:

You can build a good 7mm layout in a small space, what type of layout do you want to have, maybe we can give you ideas?

 

Don't be disheartened, and if you do change scales, you haven't wasted the money - there is always a healthy 2nd hand market in 7mm.  I recently sold off all my 7mm items, from track to locos and I don't think I lost more than 50 quid overall.

Okay, here it goes:

I have been doing a lot of looking around at different prototypes (I guessed that it would be easier to copy than to innovate), but I have been unable to find anything to suit my personal taste. Although I am a GWR man at heart (born and raised in the Golden Valley around Stroud), I have a love of locomotives from all companies both pre- and post-grouping, so I wanted something where I could run basically anything that I want.

 

That's where I got the idea of inventing my own railway company and, perhaps, even my own country (although it would still be British in nature). I currently live in the Central regions of Russia, and having looked around the area, I have found that there are a lot of interesting stations etc. For example, a station close to the city where I live (it seems to be rarely used for passengers, despite having a platform) seems to serve a linen factory and a scrapyard/foundry. My plan is to run small/mid-sized tank engines, with one bogie coach or a couple of short 4-wheeled coaches plus a couple of vans or a mail van. The factory and foundry would both be shunted by a small tank engine, with deliveries of flax and scrap coming and prepared linen and steel leaving.

[Guest JiLo]

33 minutes ago, HereticUK said:

Okay, here it goes:

I have been doing a lot of looking around at different prototypes (I guessed that it would be easier to copy than to innovate), but I have been unable to find anything to suit my personal taste. Although I am a GWR man at heart (born and raised in the Golden Valley around Stroud), I have a love of locomotives from all companies both pre- and post-grouping, so I wanted something where I could run basically anything that I want.

 

That's where I got the idea of inventing my own railway company and, perhaps, even my own country (although it would still be British in nature). I currently live in the Central regions of Russia, and having looked around the area, I have found that there are a lot of interesting stations etc. For example, a station close to the city where I live (it seems to be rarely used for passengers, despite having a platform) seems to serve a linen factory and a scrapyard/foundry. My plan is to run small/mid-sized tank engines, with one bogie coach or a couple of short 4-wheeled coaches plus a couple of vans or a mail van. The factory and foundry would both be shunted by a small tank engine, with deliveries of flax and scrap coming and prepared linen and steel leaving.

Have a look at this thread...

7mm layout in 12ft.  Although its a goods layout, it could easily be adapted for passenger traffic, I hop Steve doesnt mind me posting.  

 

This can give you and idea of what is possible in a small (for 7mm) layout.  I say a layout at the Perth (UK) show recently in 7mm which cant have been more than 12ft wrong, set in ww2 (Dad's Army setting) and running Terriers and 4 wheel coaches.

 

Let me know what you think 

[HereticUK]

It's a nice idea, and I believe that I have seen this thread before, but I am a stickler for accuracy in terms of plans. I would like to try to keep to the original plan as much as possible. I think that I will have another look at the plan I have made and try to eliminate some unnecessary things from it.

[sf315]

Hello 

Firstly thanks for linking my layout Hillport Goods to this thread. 

I built a layout with the same trackplan minus the coal yard and point and I had a station platform with basic facilities on the line where the point was for the coal yard. 

A search for Cross Heath May show pictures. The layout was N gauge and measured 24 inches long x 5 inches wide. Or Railway Modeler Jan 18 issue I think. 

Thanks Steve 

[HereticUK]

I have gone back and created my plan proper, including a test inside SCARM (didn't realise you could do that) and I have come up with the following plan. I would very much like some feedback.

 

The station is to be called "Courier's Hearth". It is based around the trackplan for the town "Gavrilov-Yam" which is not far from Yaroslavl (where I live). I translated the idea behind the name - 'Gavrilov' comes from the name 'Gavrila', I assume that this is just some kind of local hero when the town was founded. 'Yam' is from the word 'yamshik' which is an old word for a courier. Such towns where built around post offices and factories for the workers to have somewhere to live, hence the name "Courier's Hearth".

 

I would also like to add that I am still getting used to this program and its nuances, so the plan is a bit straighter than I would like in reality.

Edited August 8, 2019 by HereticUK
Added some extra thoughts.

[Kris]

I don't suffer from a lack of confidence about my layout or the plans that I create. I often draw up plans for new layouts, not because I am dissatisfied with the one that I am building but because get inspiration from many places. I don't have the time or space for any more layouts and I don't ditch the layouts I have under construction at the moment even with all of the new grand plans that I create. I don't do this because I know that the layouts that I have at the moment really do what I want them to (or really will when complete). My main layout would fit into my ultimate layout as a small part of this, I have created plans for this layout, it would be over 12m in length with 2 stations and only 12 points, I know is very unlikely to ever get built but it has not led to a lack of confidence. I guess the point from this ramble is that if you find the right layout for you it will guide you through your confidence issues, it may not seem so to start with but if you keep returning to the one plan time after time after time, then this is the right plan for you. 

[Kris]

5 minutes ago, HereticUK said:

I have gone back and created my plan proper, including a test inside SCARM (didn't realise you could do that) and I have come up with the following plan. I would very much like some feedback.

 

The station is to be called "Courier's Hearth". It is based around the trackplan for the town "Gavrilov-Yam" which is not far from Yaroslavl (where I live). I translated the idea behind the name - 'Gavrilov' comes from the name 'Gavrila', I assume that this is just some kind of local hero when the town was founded. 'Yam' is from the word 'yamshik' which is an old word for a courier. Such towns where built around post offices and factories for the workers to have somewhere to live, hence the name "Courier's Hearth".

 

I would also like to add that I am still getting used to this program and its nuances, so the plan is a bit straighter than I would like in reality.

My first impression is that the sidings are not long enough. For me this would be a killer. If you can make the sidings longer you will gain a lot of operational potential. 

[corneliuslundie]

With the locos you have the phrase that comes to my mind is light railway. Several owned Terriers and the Victory is an obvious industrial/light railway loco. And light railways often ran very short passenger trains. It might be worth looking at the website of the colonel Stephens Society for inspiration, then create your own company in a similar vein. They were all different but they also had a lot in common, mainly simple facilities, short trains both passenger and goods, decreptitude (that may be the most difficult part to model effectively) and the ability for almost anything from the "big" railway to turn up.

And don't be too ambitious or you will run out of steam before you get anything operating. It always takes longer than you expect - my "quicky" shunting plank is still not complete after five years. Possibly even if you have the space don't attempt to fill it with the first phase, but in your overall plan allow for extension to use the space. My Nantcwmdu layout was designed so that I could later slot in two extra boards between the station and the fiddle yard containing a small colliery. In the meantime the colliery is off stage.

Jonathan

[HereticUK]

1 hour ago, Kris said:

My first impression is that the sidings are not long enough. For me this would be a killer. If you can make the sidings longer you will gain a lot of operational potential. 

I thought about the sidings, I could make them a little longer, but I didn't want any single element to become too overbearing and envelope the other elements.

 

A potential change is to move the foundry to the left side of the board and have the off-scene storage behind it in order to save some space. It would mean that not only will the sidings be a bit longer, but also there would eb more action spread across the layout.

[HereticUK]

Here's an updated plan with the foundry moved to the left side of the layout, providing a cover for the fiddle yard area. Overall, since my first draft (not posted here) I have reduced the length by a total of 3 feet (about 90 cm).

[DCB]

Which make of  track are you using?  It looks like a horrible mix of short radius and long radius points.  I couldn't find anything similar on Anyrail.    As a general rule on 12" to 1 ft the loop points are usually the first points a train gets to, loops often take 40 plus wagons not the five or six your plan

 

[HereticUK]

The track is Peco Code 124 Bullhead Rail. The only option is to use the Peco set-track options, since custom track configurations are only possible in the fully licensed version of SCARM (I am using the free version). Maybe I should try my luck on Anyrail and see how that program suits me.

Since this is a country backwater, I see no problem with it taking only 5 or 6 wagons. The prototype I am imitating is actually a Russian station, and according to the track plan, the first thing a train comes across are the points leading to the factory (a la my first version).

[Sweet pea]

This has happened to me quite a lot in the past. My railway modelling is always kept small. 

I favour building small dioramas from different eras and themes. Also you don’t loose interest and I think it helps to develop your modelling skills.

[HereticUK]

Third version with AnyRail 6 and some C+L turnouts, plus some of the Peco set track has been replaced with varying lengths of flexi-track. It's certainly more compact than it was. Any thoughts?

[HereticUK]

I have reworked the plan a little more. Instead of a bay platform, I have added a goods shed and simplified some of the turnouts. I have also split the layout into 3 stages: stage 1 is the basic platform with run-round facilities, coaling and watering for the locos and a goods shed; stage 2 expands with the linen factory and warehouse; stage 3 adds the foundry and the final location for the 2-track traverser.

 

I would appreciate any comments, positive or critical.

[Dungrange]

On 08/08/2019 at 15:11, jonny777 said:

For me, operation and using my imagination to create everyday scenarios which would necessitate running various combinations of locos and stock are the main priorities; and these do not involve layout design or construction. 

 

I would be happy to be plonked in front of a completed four track mainline, junction station with loco shed and goods yard; then just run my stock on it how I fancy. 

 

This means that my plans cannot be fulfilled until I have done the bits that I don't particularly like (I am too short of cash to have it all done for me) in the space that I have which is really too small for my imagination to run riot. 

 

I'm sure there are many others in my position...

 

There sure is - that description sounds just like me.  I did have plans for a fairly contemporary fiddle yard to terminus layout, but I seemed to get bogged down in thinking about the operating potential (or lack of) and imagining a timetable and how I could justify some other stock and not actually making much progress with construction.  However, like many people, I like to see trains run at reasonable speed and shuttling multiple units between fiddle yard and platform just didn't excite me enough to get on with the construction work.

 

Being offered the chance to buy a second hand continuous run layout made me realise that is what I want and I have therefore decided to scrap my previous ideas and build a continuous run style layout based on my interpretation of Mick Bryan's "New Bryford".  It will be bigger that my previous plans and means accepting curves that are tighter than I would have liked, but I'm far more motivated to build this and am currently building baseboards.  I think if you can get the right plan, then you'll get the motivation to get on with it.