Shingles, but not Ballast

[wainwright1]

Hi All.

Trying to get our Crystal Palace High Level layout ready for the Gravesend exhibition at the beginning of November. lots of jobs to do, but mostly painting cobblestones at the moment.

As a large percentage of our membership are shall we say in our late middle age, I am sure that many of you have suffered what I have got a the present time, in fact over the last eight weeks, the dreaded shingles on my right side.

I have tried a variety of things to ease the itchy/sore irritation from this, but so far have not found anything that really eases the problem. Has anyone found something that does the job ?

I have tried: Calamine Lotion, Witchhazel Gel, Ibuleive (Ibrofrofen gel), and Piroxicam gel (prescribed). None of these seem to do anything, although I do find that Deep Freeze last thing before bed seems to calm it down a bit. I am also on Gabapentin tablets (prescribed) which are supposed to be specifically for nerve pain, but they do not seem to do anything either.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

Now back to the modelling.

RB

P.S. I also have an arthritic knee on my left side which is not helping. Don't know which way to turn, literally.

[DaveF]

 

You have my sympathy, I had it some years ago.

 

I tried everything you have except Gabapentin.  In the end I found Paracetamol or Ibuprofen were as good as anything (but Ibuprofen subsequently caused me other problems with my stomach).  I also used Voltarol but I would suggest talking to your GP or pharmacist first - I always have it handy for a shoulder problem.

 

I found resting as much as possible and getting plenty of sleep helped, also wearing loose clothing which didn't touch the affected areas.

 

Finding something quiet to do which really absorbed me took my mind off it.

 

Keeping stress to a minimum also helped, fortunately  I was semiretired but the part time work I was doing was still considered stressful by most people - except that on bad days I could simply take the day off.  I should add that I worked mainly at home and only visited my office when I really had to.

 

It did gradually get better, though even now if I get very tired or worried I get pain again for a few days.

 

David

 

 

 

[wainwright1]

Hi DaveF.

Thanks for your kind regards.

I have tried paracetamol and ibuprofen, both without success. I am currently taking the Gabapentin with pararcetamol+codene at doctors instruction for a week, although still without any apparent effect. Have another appointment with the quack on Tuesday.

I am retired and have adopted the loose clothing strategy which helps. Braces are also useful set at just enough strength to keep your trousers up.

I am sure that there must be something out there that will soothe the soreness, its just finding it.

All the best

RB

[wombatofludham]

I'm just getting over an attack of the shingles, I still have numbness around my left side and occasional stabbing pain on my back shoulder.  I didn't bother going to the doctor having visited the NHS direct website as I had had the rash longer than 3 days and it said there was no real treatment available other than pain killers.  Personally I was highly restricted in what painkillers I could take as most have some sort of complication with other meds I take and even paracetamol, which I could take, has to be restricted to the level I suspect Smarties would have been more effective.

I found calamine lotion cream was good at reducing itching but not the deep seated nerve pain, and less of a faff to apply than the liquid version.  other than that I can wholeheartedly agree with loose clothing, large baggy teeshirts were ideal, and taking things easy.  I did manage some kit-building in the early stages but eventually the pain became so intense even that was too much.

 

One thing I am still suffering from is a sense of being exhausted, I think because I had two months of disrupted sleep, and it seems to be taking a while for me to fully recover my vitality, which is extremely frustrating.

Unless you have had the illness you cannot conceive of how debilitating and vile it is.  I never expected it to be like this and can't remember anything where you feel reasonably OK in yourself but are stopped from doing anything by such intense persistent and deep seated pain.  Wishing you the best with your bout.

[TheSignalEngineer]

I had an attack some years ago. It was made worse when I was in a stressful situation which was almost every day at work. The doctor prescribed somr Zovirax based  tablets which had just been approved at the time.

 They were very good but I believe they have side effects with some people. 

Managing the stress has kept me free from the effects most of the time, and I know from the area where the discomfort starts when I need to ease up.

[jjb1970]

I found trying to keep dry and wearing fresh clothes helped. I should probably explain I was working in Trinidad when I was afflicted and humidity and sweating buckets just added to the discomfort. Other than that I found I just had to endure it as none of the drugs or potions did much. Not a nice illness. 

[Clive Mortimore]

I use to care for patients with server shingles and the hospital doctors would prescribe an anti viral like Zovirax and Gabapentin, which is an anti convulsive and  is very good with nerve pain. The Herpes Zoster virus (chicken pox and shingles) lays dormant in your spine after you have been infected with chicken pox. At times of low body resistance and in many cases high stress levels out it trots along a nerve route. It is very painful so the patients told me. We use to try and help with the itchyness of the pustules with Calamine lotion applied several times a day.

 

There is now a vaccine to prevent shingles available to those in the 70 to 80 years age group.

 

Shingles is highly infectious so please keep away from anyone who has never had chicken pox. As an 18 year old soldier I was hospitalised with bad chicken pox because the Medical Officer did not isolate a chap who had shingles and was in the same barrack room as me.

 

Chicken pox in adults kills more people than Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, yet many GPs do not understand the seriousness of it. With adults the pustules can start to form in the mouth and throat causing airway obstruction, I looked after a chap where they were present in his bronchial tubes, he survived, was very poorly for a long time afterwards. Or the virus gets in the blood stream and infects multiple organs and the patient dies very quickly of organ failure.

 

It is not a "childhood disease" it is a life long infection, so please do not hold chicken pox parties for kids, "so it gets it out the way", just ask an adult with shingles.   

[TheSignalEngineer]

9 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

The Herpes Zoster virus (chicken pox and shingles) lays dormant in your spine after you have been infected with chicken pox. At times of low body resistance and in many cases high stress levels out it trots along a nerve route

I have an area in the middle of my spine that I call my 'stress meter'. It's where my shingles first started during a period of over work and extreme stress. Fortunately I spotted it quickly and Zovirax reduced the symptoms in a few days. Since then I have always been able to tell if my stress level is too high by slight discomfort starting at the same point in my back.

[Steven B]

Antihistamine tablet/syrup/cream may help.

 

Have a chat with your local pharmacist

[wombatofludham]

When I developed my recent attack of shingles I read that the Herpes-Zoster virus "re-ignites" during periods of stress or low immunity, yet neither applied in my case.  I'm about as stress-free as I have ever been and my immune system is fine, and as I am not yet 57, old age isn't a factor either.  It seems in my case it was a completely random re-ignition of the virus.

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, wombatofludham said:

When I developed my recent attack of shingles I read that the Herpes-Zoster virus "re-ignites" during periods of stress or low immunity, yet neither applied in my case.  I'm about as stress-free as I have ever been and my immune system is fine, and as I am not yet 57, old age isn't a factor either.  It seems in my case it was a completely random re-ignition of the virus.

Hi Mark

 

That does happen, a good example was the guy who wasn't isolated by the MO and gave me chicken pox. He was in his early 20s, and fit. He did have one thing in common with you he came from Wales but to date I haven't heard or read that to be an issue with shingles. 

[The Stationmaster]

Age apparently can be a factor hence the concentration on the 'rising 70' age group for vaccination.  Whether your GP would be prepared to vaccinate somebody at a different age (higher or lower) might be worth asking when the present attack clears up.  Our surgery was not very pro-active in dealing with this vaccination but I got it without any trouble when I asked for it a year or so before I hit the magic number.

 

And as Clive says for goodness sake keep away from any likely source of chickenpox infection - I had a bout of that in my late 20s and it was distinctly not enjoyable although fortunately not as bad as the attack Clive had.  I caught from a little dear among a group of vistiing school children who came to see the station and somebody's mum obviously hadn't understood what to do with a child developing chickenpox.

[wainwright1]

Hi All.

 

Many thanks for your comments and kind advice.

 

It is now eight weeks since my attack started. My kitchen is now looking like a chemists shop with the selection of treatments that I have tried, some over the counter and others prescribed by the doctor. It was quite aggressive, painful and debilitating when it first started, but after a couple of weeks it eased a bit and and I got my energy back. Unfortunately, it seems to have got stuck at that level and nothing seems to shift it.

 

I am currently on Gabapentin (400ml) tablets and EMLA Cream (5%) (Lidocaine) a mild anaesthetic. Unfortunately neither of these seem to be doing very much. I might try the antihistamine tablets to see if they help. I also have what appears to be an arthritic flare up in my knee which started about a week after the Shingles. I had an x-ray last week and Interestingly, when compared with an x-ray five years ago there would appear to be no change. This does not seem to be responding to the medication either, so perhaps the Shingles virus has got in there as well ?

 

I suppose I shall have to ride out the storm and hope that this fades away after not too much longer. (Failing that, I will call out the vet).

 

All the best

RB

[wombatofludham]

On 16/09/2019 at 16:18, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Mark

 

He did have one thing in common with you he came from Wales but to date I haven't heard or read that to be an issue with shingles. 

I'm sure it's one of those statistical quirks that happen sometimes but when I went to my GP to try and sort out a mix up with my repeat prescription last month I happened to mention that I was getting over a bout of shingles to which the receptionist said "You too, we've had an increase in shingles cases recently".  
 

Odd.

[wainwright1]

Interestingly, I saw my neighbour across the hallway from my flat yesterday and she got shingles about a week ago. Her's is nasty as it is high up on her back and going around onto her face. Apparently she got taken into hospital in an ambulance and kept in over night on a drip. She was released the next day, but they did not give her any medication. I told her what I had been through and gave her the packets for the medication that I had been given to stop the spread of the shingles and prevent it getting infected. She has been to the doctor and her has given her the same thing. She is only in her thirties and going around using a spray on everything she touches to stop the spread of it. Her upstairs neighbour is currently pregnant with a risk to the baby and we have warned her about the problem.

 

All the best

RB

[PhilH]

With regard to the shingles vaccination mentioned above I hadn't heard of it or seen it mentioned anywhere until I had a letter from my surgery asking me if I wanted one. (I had one).

 

The reason I'm writing this is that if you are in the target age group and have heard nothing about the vaccination it would certainly be worth contacting your GP to ask for one. My dear old mum had shingles and she said it was one of the most painful things she had ever had.

[wainwright1]

Another three years to go until I am eligible (aged 70), but once I am clear of this bout I may ask if I can have it earlier to prevent another episode.

 

All the best

RB

[Mallard60022]

The vaccination against Shingles. Just a word of advice if I may. I had this last year from a Practice Nurse when I went for a routine blood test and then developed Shingles like pox and pustules after a couple of weeks. Bloody horrible and especially difficult to reach on my back and it took well over six months to clear away and I now have residual exma type skin problems that I did not have prior to this vaccination. This was a bit of a surprise to my GP and I didn't seem to have had the 'other' symptoms of Shingles like the burning sensations and flu like symptoms, but I have spoken with her since and she tells me that several of the Practice patients have developed the symptoms so she has reported this to the provider of the vaccine. Another GP in the Practice that is interested in Dermatology that I sometimes see about minor skin problems, and the Nurse Practitioner were not sure what I had back then. They know now!

I only point this out as prior to this vaccination, I already had several inflammatory conditions and that includes Osteo Arthritis and Costochondritis, that only developed after having a Flu Vaccination in October 2014 & that seemed to change my metabolism and the way my Immune System activates. I was ill for 9 months after that jab, having a series of around 3 viral type conditions over that period, semi recovering from one and then developing another. Coincidentally I developed the auto immune Coeliac Disease as well and then associated mental health issues of acute Anxiey and panic Attacks that are quite common with Coeliac. It was, shall we say, quite a challenging time and I am a different person health wise to what I was 5 years ago! But hell, I am still here!

I have had many blood tests (all seemingly clear apart from a Vit D deficiency), but have never seen a top specialist, except I got referred to a Dermatology Consultant who was actually really helpful with meds for the spots, pustules rashes and exma and also interested  in how the spotty bits of the Shingles had presented. By the time I got there I was getting better from those things anyway!

Sadly the Immunology and Allergy Dept in Sheffield were less than helpful. I only saw a very nice, professional and kind but quite inexperienced new junior registrar member of staff,  not the experienced Consultant, the result being I was classed as having no problems with my immunity to stuff or allergies (not even Gluten)! Never had one test at that clinic! Thought about a complaint but really CBA as I was just fed up.

So my advice is, if you are offered this vaccination get a check up before it just to see if you have something that might be 'set off' by the jab and if you already have any conditions definitely do so. I am sorry to say that because of the strain on 'the services' it seems that you have to really push sometimes to get into the system for 'investigations'.  I love and support the NHS, but it is really struggling at the moment.

I did have Chicken Pox when I was twelve and that affected my eyesight and I was off school for quite some time. I am told that the virus is then lying dormant (in the spine) as mentioned above and can be 'woken', often by some sort of stress response in the body/immune system. October 2014 was when I finished work not really of my choice, my mate Geoff Brewin died quite suddenly at 63 and my good mate from my youth in the 60s had died earlier in the year from MND. I didn't feel 'stressed' but I suspect my body was.

So RB and anybody else, my apologies for this ramble, but just don't do as I did and say, oh yes ok to a nurse as I was there and eligible (oh er misses) and not really thinking. Ask for a chat with the GP first to be on the safe side and do ask some questions about the stuff you will be getting.

Hope all is better now?

Phi

Edited September 23, 2019 by Mallard60022

[wainwright1]

Hi Mallard.

 

That is very interesting about the shingles starting other things off. About a week after my shingles started I got an arthritic type flare up in my left knee. I had experienced some problems previously with arthritis in both knees, but not too serious and it had been more or less negligible for about four years. I had the knee x-rayed and they compared it with an x-ray taken five years ago and the they said that there was no change in the joint. So perhaps this is also being caused by the shingles.

The shingles are in their ninth week and very slowly dissipating and the knee is up and down, improving for a few days and then getting achy again. At the moment I cannot straighten my leg properly, so have been very careful on stairs and avoided carrying anything heavy or awkward, especially model railway layout boards. I am also restricting my driving to fairly short trips.

I would finally say that I have yet to find any pain killers or other treatment which has given any real relief.

All the best

RB

[johnarcher]

On 15/09/2019 at 23:10, Clive Mortimore said:

I use to care for patients with server shingles and the hospital doctors would prescribe an anti viral like Zovirax and Gabapentin, which is an anti convulsive and  is very good with nerve pain. The Herpes Zoster virus (chicken pox and shingles) lays dormant in your spine after you have been infected with chicken pox. At times of low body resistance and in many cases high stress levels out it trots along a nerve route. It is very painful so the patients told me. We use to try and help with the itchyness of the pustules with Calamine lotion applied several times a day.

 

There is now a vaccine to prevent shingles available to those in the 70 to 80 years age group.

 

Shingles is highly infectious so please keep away from anyone who has never had chicken pox. As an 18 year old soldier I was hospitalised with bad chicken pox because the Medical Officer did not isolate a chap who had shingles and was in the same barrack room as me.

 

Chicken pox in adults kills more people than Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, yet many GPs do not understand the seriousness of it. With adults the pustules can start to form in the mouth and throat causing airway obstruction, I looked after a chap where they were present in his bronchial tubes, he survived, was very poorly for a long time afterwards. Or the virus gets in the blood stream and infects multiple organs and the patient dies very quickly of organ failure.

 

It is not a "childhood disease" it is a life long infection, so please do not hold chicken pox parties for kids, "so it gets it out the way", just ask an adult with shingles.   

Clive, may I bother you woth a question?

I had shingles about 8 years ago, quite nasty but not as bad as some here have described.

Still that presumably means the virus is hiding in my spine, and could re-appear.  Do you know is there any risk of it re-appearing as chicken pos rather than as shingles? I ask as I am not only older now (69), but have quite severe emphysema/COPD, so the bronchial effects you mention could be very serious.

If there is any such risk maybe I'll talk to my doctor about the vaccine.

 

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, johnarcher said:

Clive, may I bother you woth a question?

I had shingles about 8 years ago, quite nasty but not as bad as some here have described.

Still that presumably means the virus is hiding in my spine, and could re-appear.  Do you know is there any risk of it re-appearing as chicken pos rather than as shingles? I ask as I am not only older now (69), but have quite severe emphysema/COPD, so the bronchial effects you mention could be very serious.

If there is any such risk maybe I'll talk to my doctor about the vaccine.

 

Hi John

 

It is still sitting there waiting for its chance to make you unwell again, but it will be shingles if it does not chicken pox. I hope that you do not get shingles again.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

I don't know if it is actual shingles or not, but at times of stress I get really itchy shins and ankles, nowhere else, my home brewed remedy that works for me is to use an aqeous cream with Aloe Vera in it.

I haven't pursued to doctor level as it isn't enough of a problem IMHO, but reading this it might be a symptom of other things which need looking into?

 

Mike.

[johnarcher]

9 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi John

 

It is still sitting there waiting for its chance to make you unwell again, but it will be shingles if it does not chicken pox. I hope that you do not get shingles again.

Thank you, I hope not too, but better that than chicken pox.

[Mallard60022]

7 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I don't know if it is actual shingles or not, but at times of stress I get really itchy shins and ankles, nowhere else, my home brewed remedy that works for me is to use an aqeous cream with Aloe Vera in it.

I haven't pursued to doctor level as it isn't enough of a problem IMHO, but reading this it might be a symptom of other things which need looking into?

 

Mike.

I believe the situation could be inflammation related matey. Your Immune System reacts to stuff released in your body when stressed; partly Adrenaline & the fight or flight situation. Far too complex a thing for me to know anything about it but 'conditions' related to an immune response can cause inflammatory flare ups such as arthritic situations and also exam type symptoms. The whole chemistry and electrical functioning of the body is just a real mystery and most of us, even including Doc's, know very little of what goes on sometimes.  Funnily the 'ancients' had some good remedies and methods of dealing with lots of things body related. Today the 'treatment' offered is most often a synthetic chemical, many of which are superb and many of which  then need another chemical to counteract the affects!

Good luck

P