RMweb Premium Coryton Posted October 17, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2017 That is not as daft as you would think, I remember going an HST course in 1978 and that was mentioned then that it would not be hard to convert to electric traction..... Indeed. But the letter was pointing out that it wasn't quite as simple as some people seemed to think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 A 1970s version of the Javelin, with slidey rail. Cheers David 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 David, from the pictures you've already done can you 'quickly' draw up a set of MK3 dbso, Mk3, Mk3, Mk3, HST power car (with or without bi-mode pantograph ), got a bit of curiosity this end on what a HST half-set would look like. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Something like this. Cheers David 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPH 603 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I've made some developments with the paint scheme since last post. I've finalised the scheme on the front end and now I'm considering the decals (things like the number and crests), I might even make number plates like various other electric blue locomotives. I've also made sheets for the interior sides using Google Drawings. Screenshot 2017-10-12 at 10.05.33 AM - Edited.png DDIU Interior Sheets (A3 Size).jpg I'm sure some remember my British Double Decker which I came up with some time ago. Pity it's too tall to run on main lines... What better way to solve that problem with a Single Deck version! I'm open to ideas but what I envision is something like a Single Deck U set crossed with a Red Rattler with some of the Double Decker's features. Maybe I might put some Class 303 features into it too. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Something like this. 1+5 HST.png Cheers David That's the gist of it, was thinking swallow livery and a DVT style cab on the DBSO to make it look more like an after thought.....I like the CO half 1st/2nd, making me think it needs to be in Scot Rail livery rather than Swallow as a short HST replacement for the 47 + Mk2 DBSO sets when they went to the GE.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Design work was done on an HST 'half set' some time in the late '80s (IIRC) though it also entailed fitting buffers both ends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Design work was done on an HST 'half set' some time in the late '80s (IIRC) though it also entailed fitting buffers both ends. Given the DVT surrogates that makes sense. I hadn't thought of that even though the 1+4 XPT was intended to be able to do the same, although they proposed Scharfenberg couplers. Cheers David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) How about this? Feel free to "repaint" it into ScotRail livery. Or using the hypothetical second generation DMB to match the DBSO. As well as Edinburgh - Glasgow I could see them doing anything that today would require a 6-car 170. And things like Paddington - Oxford/Westbury. Cheers David Edited October 19, 2017 by DavidB-AU 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Only being able to hit like once isn't enough for those David. They really look the part for a long distance cross-country service rather than being squished into a 158. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Of course the Mk.III and IV DVTs were built the way they were because of the Polmadie derailment. I don't think ScotRail would have wanted to revert to passenger lead vehicles that quickly. Certainly for some newspapers it would have made great 'BR knocking' copy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted October 19, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 19, 2017 Of course the Mk.III and IV DVTs were built the way they were because of the Polmadie derailment. I don't think ScotRail would have wanted to revert to passenger lead vehicles that quickly. Certainly for some newspapers it would have made great 'BR knocking' copy. I clicked agree, but having said that the DBSOs continued afterwards didn't they - the ban was for high speed running, wasn't it? So I don't see why it would be a problem for Edinburgh-Glasgow, or other routes operated by 170 as said above. Of course in Scotland they are moving from 170's to short HSTs on the longer routes, albeit still with a power car at each end. I wonder how the acceleration would be if they took the engine out of one of the power cars on a 4 car rake? It should be as good as an 8 coach HST, but perhaps not as good as a modern DMU. (Maybe it could be used for high capacity bike storage, rather like the way Amtrak converted diesel locomotives to driving baggage cars by taking out the prime mover and sticking a big door on the side). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Polmont came down to the DBSO being too light and brake proportionality on the 47. This has since been fixed and isn't a problem with a 67/68, Mk 3s and DVT. I know a DVT was involved at Great Heck but it stayed upright for over 600m after striking the car, and it was only a tragedy because points deflected it into an oncoming coal train. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted October 19, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 19, 2017 Polmont came down to the DBSO being too light and brake proportionality on the 47. This has since been fixed and isn't a problem with a 67/68, Mk 3s and DVT. I know a DVT was involved at Great Heck but it stayed upright for over 600m after striking the car, and it was only a tragedy because points deflected it into an oncoming coal train. Nevertheless was it not a rule for a long time that no passengers were to be in the leading vehicle of a 125 mph train? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted October 19, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 19, 2017 Nevertheless was it not a rule for a long time that no passengers were to be in the leading vehicle of a 125 mph train? IIRC any train capable of exceeding 100mph. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 On Edinburgh/Glasgow/Perth/Dundee/Aberdeen/Inverness services they wouldn't be exceeding 100mph. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) True, but the comment re: knocking copy would still apply. Instead the DBSOs got transferred about as far south as they could be to Anglia services. Edited October 19, 2017 by BernardTPM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 19, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 19, 2017 How about this? Feel free to "repaint" it into ScotRail livery. 1+5 HST IC.jpg Or using the hypothetical second generation DMB to match the DBSO. 1+5 2GHST IC.jpg As well as Edinburgh - Glasgow I could see them doing anything that today would require a 6-car 170. And things like Paddington - Oxford/Westbury. Cheers David How much power in the loco part? If it's a normal HST unit it will be somewhat lacking! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 How much power in the loco part? If it's a normal HST unit it will be somewhat lacking! o My original thought was a 1+4 but the request was for a 1+5. The XPT often ran from Sydney to Dubbo in 1+4 formation and that involved the 1 in 33 slog from Valley Heights to Katoomba. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 I did share a video on another thread of a 'full length' HST with just one power car passing through Peterborough and it was still travelling at quite a good speed..... can't remember which thread though! I've turned the HST short set into ScotRail: Following the Comments above, I think the HST power car needs some internal modifications; a change of gearing for a maximum speed of 100mph for the routes it's used on and the fact it has passengers in the leading vehicle, plus the change of gearing would (I assume) improve acceleration. Loving the idea of it being a buffer equipped power car, if it was also converted to run with conventional stock rather than just HST Mk3 trailers it opens the possibility of adding booster carriages to the rear of the set when extra seats are needed. Lets call it a class 43/2! I do like the ScotRail Mk3 CO, but I've replaced it with a buffet just to see how it looks. a trolley service from the guards compartment in the DBSO would probably be more practical really. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPH 603 Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 On a similar note, something like this very nearly happened in Australia. Part of the XPT spec was for 1+4 commuter sets as well as 2+5 intercity sets.HST DBSO.pngCheersDavid Could you make an Intercity/Scotrail version please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted October 20, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 20, 2017 o My original thought was a 1+4 but the request was for a 1+5. The XPT often ran from Sydney to Dubbo in 1+4 formation and that involved the 1 in 33 slog from Valley Heights to Katoomba. Cheers David It would be a very odd sight for anyone in the UK - an HST (ish) running like a normal loco-hauled train with just one power car. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPH 603 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 It would be a very odd sight for anyone in the UK - an HST (ish) running like a normal loco-hauled train with just one power car. This is because 19 power cars were built, meaning there was one spare. Subsequently that one train had to have one power car only. I saw this set a few years ago actually in Blacktown, but I have no photos of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 The 1+4 to Dubbo was very common when one power car at a time was out of service getting the Valenta replaced with a VP185. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted October 21, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 21, 2017 The 1+4 to Dubbo was very common when one power car at a time was out of service getting the Valenta replaced with a VP185. Cheers David I presume there's a handy triangle at Dubbo. I have actually seen a lone XPT power car out of the depot...but it was in Sydney Central for some kind of PR event. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now