Mk1 BSO.T Scotrail branding question.

[young37215]

I am at the Dean Forest Railway this afternoon where the BSOT 9003 is in operation. 
 

I have taken a number of photos, if anyone can suggest angles or perspectives that I haven’t captured, I’ll be happy to take them 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by young37215

[young37215]

The BSOT remains on Commonwealth bogies. The brake end of the coach retains its handrails 

 

[meanach]

Does anybody know if / where you can buy the end steps from ? There  are a few mk1s where I think I got over zealous and took off all the end steps 😬

[billywhizz]

9 hours ago, meanach said:

Does anybody know if / where you can buy the end steps from ? There  are a few mk1s where I think I got over zealous and took off all the end steps 😬

Not aware of any being available commercially. Maybe cut and shape some thin styrene strip? 

[thegreenhowards]

Right, I think I’ve finished the inside of mine. 
 

 

When photographed outside, I do wonder whether it was worth it! I guess the best that can be said is that you can’t see seats through the window which used to be possible!

 

 

 

Inside with the interior lights on, the buffet is more evident.

 

 

Now I think the remaining jobs are removing the top three steps at each end and the periscopes. Have I missed anything?

 

Andy

[young37215]

Having clarified that the brake end of the BSOT only has hand rails and with pictures of my chosen coaches, I set about fabricating a hand rail. Using some 0.85mm wire and a 1mm drill, I produced a hand rail. Easy enough to do but I question how much this will be noticeable? 
 
Pictures show a comparison of 9000 and 9001 where 9000 has the Hornby molded rail and 9001 the  custom made one. I’ll paint the new handrail once it has been secured and some blue touching up is required on the coach end. At this time I am not persuaded to make more handrails, I don’t see any significant benefit of doing so. 
 

I have managed to lose one of the Buffet transfers from 9000 which means I’ll need to get another 3025 from Railtec. No big deal as I also want more red stripe transfers. 

 

Custom handrail 

Contrasting handrails

 

[young37215]

Famous last words, I had to fabricate a second handrail for 9015 having already cut down the molded one. My version of a threesome shows 2 fabricated handrails and the third (the coach on the right) is Hornby’s out of the box molded option. The difference is not easily seen, I’ll leave 9000 as Hornby made it.

 

[billywhizz]

Not huge amounts of progress here to report. Bodyshell now in primer which highlighted a couple of areas on the roof where the periscopes and roof hand rail used to be that needs sanding back further to remove a couple of traces of where they used to be. Roof re primed and now the body shell is ready for the spray booth. 
Time to put the big boy pants on and see my air brushing talent can match my expectations!!

Cheers. 
Bill. 

[uax6]

I'd change the size of wire you are using for handrails to 0.45mm, it will look much better., don't forget that 1 mm is 3 inches full scale!

The rest is looking really rather nice, well done!

 

Andy 

[young37215]

2 hours ago, uax6 said:

I'd change the size of wire you are using for handrails to 0.45mm, it will look much better., don't forget that 1 mm is 3 inches full scale!

The rest is looking really rather nice, well done!

 

Andy 

 

I measured the Bachmann pipework at 1mm and decided to go with the 0.85mm option which translates to 65mm/2.5 inches ful size for the handrails. I'd agree that this is probably on the large size but painted it looks fine to me. 

 

I am looking at creating the window blanking for the BSOT 9015. Unlike others created so far which were simple cuts of card with no text and as can be seen below, 9015 requires 'Buffet' in white lettering on a black background which I was intending to make using MS Word and the Rail Alphabet font. Annoyingly I am finding this challenging, probably due to the fact that I rarely use Word these days. Has anyone any suggestions or, better still, has alteady created their own version and will let me have a copy?  

 

 

[billywhizz]

6 hours ago, young37215 said:

 

I measured the Bachmann pipework at 1mm and decided to go with the 0.85mm option which translates to 65mm/2.5 inches ful size for the handrails. I'd agree that this is probably on the large size but painted it looks fine to me. 

 

I am looking at creating the window blanking for the BSOT 9015. Unlike others created so far which were simple cuts of card with no text and as can be seen below, 9015 requires 'Buffet' in white lettering on a black background which I was intending to make using MS Word and the Rail Alphabet font. Annoyingly I am finding this challenging, probably due to the fact that I rarely use Word these days. Has anyone any suggestions or, better still, has alteady created their own version and will let me have a copy?  

 

 

Maybe worth dropping Steve @railtec-models an email to see he could produce a custom set. He technically already has the artwork, just needs to be a different colour. 
9015 is on my radar to do if the conversion and respray goes OK so I would be interested in a set as well. 
Cheers. 
Bill. 

[SC55015]

47 minutes ago, billywhizz said:

Maybe worth dropping Steve @railtec-models an email to see he could produce a custom set. He technically already has the artwork, just needs to be a different colour. 
9015 is on my radar to do if the conversion and respray goes OK so I would be interested in a set as well. 
Cheers. 
Bill. 

It would be ideal if he could add that to the BSOT sheet, and the "MICRO-BUFFET' in red seen on some of the white windows would also be great!

 

While I'm still unclear as to what vehicle and what window style mine will be I did do a test with a black window. It was created in photoshop with the Myriad Pro font which seems close enough. Here is a jpg of the file:

It's oversized so needs trimming, I seem to also recall printing at several sizes until I got it the size right, sadly I did this using the print dialogue rather than resizing the image in PS. Best thing to do is probably add the the jpg to a word document then gradually make it smaller until it looks right.

 

 

This was just printed on regular paper, photo paper might make it more refined.

[young37215]

Thanks to SC55015, 9016 now has a Buffet signed window blanking. The Glue and Glaze at the bottom should dry clear. I need to fit a Buffet sign to the opposite window, I think one of the Railtec 3025 ones will do the job. 
 

I am waiting on a reply from @railtec-models to an email where I suggested some changes to the transfers on 3025. Clearly the space available is finite, to fit Micro Buffet in will require something else being removed. The question is which transfers offer the widest use?

 

[young37215]

A Railtec 3025 transfers question for people consider. Below is a picture of 3025 as it currently stands, I have asked Steve to consider removing the 3 inch strips and replacing them with 2 inch strips because, based on my experience, the 3 inch are too big for the Hornby Mk1 BSO meaning I cannot see a use for them. Depending on the chosen BSOT modelled, the 2 inch strips are quickly used up which is the reason I need to buy another 3025.  

 

 

 

As currently compiled 3025 provides for the WHL Mk1 BSOT's most commonly seen, No's 9000, 9001, 9015 and 9016 with 2 alternative numbers where pictures of these BSOT's on the WHL have been identified. I have managed to create 3 BSOT's using one set of transfers albeit I am short of 2 inch strips because 9000 and 9001 had extended red stripes in their early days. The only item required that is not included is the covering of the window on the toilet side which I dont think is suited to a transfer. If people want Micro Buffet adding in to 3025, what should come off? 

 

 

[billywhizz]

I agree the 3” red stripes are no use for a BSO(T). I would remove the 3” stripes and replace with a couple of additional 2” stripes. Was “Micro Buffet” used on BSO(T)? If so, then add Micro buffet in the space left. 
 

 

[young37215]

I had an e-mail exchange with Railtec yesterday where I appear to have offended Steve by asking for further changes to 3025. That said I can only feedback on my experience, it seems pretty clear that the 3 inch stripes are of minimal use in the conversion of a Hornby BSO to BSOT. Does anyone disagree with my view that the 3 inch stripes should go from 3025?

 

Several Micro Buffet examples can be found on Flickr, 9007 and 9016 for example. I don't think that these will work very well as a transfer for a window cover, I consider it more effective to print my own window cover with the text labelling I require. 

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

It looks like I’ve c…ed up on my 9016, which has black windows! I’m sure I’d seen a photo of it with black - could that have been a later change or am I imagining things?! It seems I’ve also got the wrong vents and window frames, so it looks like I need to renumber my conversion.

 

Just when I thought I’d put it to bed!

 

Andy

 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by thegreenhowards

[railtec-models]

4 hours ago, young37215 said:

I had an e-mail exchange with Railtec yesterday where I appear to have offended Steve by asking for further changes to 3025.

 

Really? I'm confused. I developed pack 4mm-3025 a few weeks ago based on the exact specific elements that you'd asked to see in a pack so as to avoid the need to have to buy 2 or more existing packs, or going down the custom route (which would have been more expensive). Diverting a very finite and niche resource to develop a new pack consisting of elements which may already be present across other packs is a concept I'm always at least open to as I like to try to help people get what they need and save them a few £, (a) because I enjoy trying to be helpful and (b) the appreciation that usually presents itself in return gives me a buzz. I'd simply asked if the pack you'd specifically asked me to make was now not quite right (and gave a link to another existing stock item which consists of 2" red lining which is what you'd asked for). So, yeah, a bit perplexed to be reading the above.

 

Interesting to see the Micro-Buffet. Maybe one for another day.

Edited September 19, 2023 by railtec-models
typo

[SC55015]

4 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

It looks like I’ve c…ed up on my 9016, which has black windows! I’m sure I’d seen a photo of it with black - could that have been a later change or am I imagining things?! It seems I’ve also got the wrong vents and window frames, so it looks like I need to renumber my conversion.

You may not be wrong, I've also been wondering if vehicles changed window styles. Consider this 1983 image, from which I've added a close up.

 

It's a dual braked/heat vehicle (the two angled pipes above the C1) with scallop vents so 9016 - and the buffet window appears to be the black style. The next image I can find showing that window isn't until 1986 where it is white.
To confirm it is 9016 these are the same two coaches added to the London portion when the photographer got off at Tyndrum:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/25691226@N07/6491733421/in/gallery-bystuart-72157722081933100/
Note it is Sc9016, not SC9016, at this time!

 

[meanach]

On 19/09/2023 at 06:50, young37215 said:

I had an e-mail exchange with Railtec yesterday where I appear to have offended Steve by asking for further changes to 3025. That said I can only feedback on my experience, it seems pretty clear that the 3 inch stripes are of minimal use in the conversion of a Hornby BSO to BSOT. Does anyone disagree with my view that the 3 inch stripes should go from 3025?

 

Several Micro Buffet examples can be found on Flickr, 9007 and 9016 for example. I don't think that these will work very well as a transfer for a window cover, I consider it more effective to print my own window cover with the text labelling I require. 

 

 

 

From memory I thought the windows went from white to black ! As I want to do 9015 or 16 this may well scupper me, as I don’t own a printer . Great filthy weathering inspiration on 413 there . 

[03060]

I came across this 1986 photo the other day which I can't see in any of the other Flickr BSOT galleries, possibly 9016 with red on white Micro Buffet window legend and by the lead carriage I would presume has worked up with the sleeper stock.

 

Photo by Stephen Burdett 13/6/86.

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by 03060
Extra info added.

[SC55015]

On 22/09/2023 at 23:52, 03060 said:

I came across this 1986 photo the other day which I can't see in any of the other Flickr BSOT galleries.

Thanks, I've added it into my gallery with a few other newly found ones. This was a good find, the first decent shot I've seen of this part of 9000 in its later days:

 

 

[young37215]

17 hours ago, SC55015 said:

Thanks, I've added it into my gallery with a few other newly found ones. This was a good find, the first decent shot I've seen of this part of 9000 in its later days:

 

 

 

Interesting in that it is the original Scotrail branding that has been applied and the widow has been adorned with a second Buffet sign.. My understanding is that the application of Scotrail dates to 1984, prior to the adoption of ScotRail as the branding suggesting that this has been on the coach for a couple of years.  

 

[billywhizz]

Little bit more progress here now I am back off holiday. Time for the spray booth….

Rail grey applied to the bodysides and underframe given a coat of Precision frame dirt. Next job will be mask up ahead of applying Rail blue to the bodyshell. The underframe will be weathered further with some oil / grease staining at a later stage to break up the uniform frame dirt. 

[SC55015]

On 10/09/2023 at 06:25, young37215 said:

I am at the Dean Forest Railway this afternoon where the BSOT 9003 is in operation. 
 

I have taken a number of photos, if anyone can suggest angles or perspectives that I haven’t captured, I’ll be happy to take them

 

 

 

 

Looking again at these images, the texture of these end panels suggested they have been painted, not laminate which a Commonwealth vehicle should be. Just a point to be wary of if anyone is modelling 9003 as this was could have been done in preservation and may not be the BR colours.

 

9010 survives on the North-Norfolk Railway and shows was I think was the original interior for the Commonwealth vehicles.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10159519844686554

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10153579706576017
The seat sides are (faded) red in the buffet (original smoking) end and pale green past the lime green partition.

Here's the buffet area:
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=2949878175038932

 

The same colour scheme is on 9011 on the Embsay & Bolton Abbey Rly:
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10154468021529660
The full post shows how they have changed the buffet area:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/573173142789869/permalink/1045932388847273/

 

Another image of interest I found while on FB was this: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10230917969868684 - still carrying its original number after conversion. It would later be 9005.
I've finally concluded that my Commonwealth fitted BSOT will be SC9005, pre-ScotRail branding. I have another BSO to convert which be 9015 with ScotRail branding so I cover the early and later eras, SC9005 with white buffet window and 9015 with black.