Phil Mason Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Thanks, Bradford. I'm not actually sure you can see though them on a real 37 but the grilles seemed the right size and roughly correct spacing. Here's a real one: The effect is probably better on the 26s I did sone time ago: If anybody is interested, what I've done is build up the sides in layers. The outer skin is 10 thou, with the brass bits (also about 10 thou) sandwiched between that and a 60 thou base. In the case of the 37, the door recesses have been a problem so the base layer was only 20 thou with a 40 thou layer on top where the doors aren't (if you see what I mean?). The doors are therefore recessed by 40 plus 2x 10 thou which equals 60 thou or 6in in real life. I think that looks about right. I just love 3mm, where 1inch scales to 10 thou and 1cm equates to 0.1mm. To quite Paul Whitehouse on The Fast Show, "Brilliant!" Phil 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted February 19 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19 I did a pattern for a resin moulded 37 for Maurice Pilsworth about 30 years ago - no idea what happened to this but I still have the cab pattern here. I used to make one cab, mould it and add then to the body. Others included LMS 10000, class 56 and Deltic. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mason Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Yes, Michael, I think there are some nice models out there based on your body. I should've employed your method for the ends because they fell off anyway. I also found after re-measuring that the ends were too narrow so they'll have to be done again. This can be a hazard with scratch building - two steps forward and one back but it's always easier the second time and it's the advantage over kits where you're stuck with what you've got. I've managed to create a rebate for the cant rail grilles. This should have been done before adding the roof, of course. Phil 3 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mason Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Starting to look a bit more tractor like. Cant rail grilles on and bonnets restored. Phil 4 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenTheTunnels Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 On 29/12/2023 at 22:44, Michael Edge said: For moulding items such as this I start by poking some moulding rubber around all the fiddly bits, especially undercuts and small holes with a coktail stick first. Let this settle for a while and watch for any gaps or bubbles. Finally pour in the rest of the rubber from one corner, letting it flow over the pattern - don’t just pour it on the top. Yours looks like the same sort of rubber and Lego box I use Michael, Can I ask what you use for making moulds and then what resin do you use for casting? Im going to 3D print some small detail parts, but as they will need cleaning and a bit of work, my idea was to use them as masters (once cleaned up and sorted) and resin cast the ones for the models. So any help would be welcome. Richie 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mason Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) Sylmasta, if I may answer for Mr Edge. You can get a starter kit with full instructions etc. Its dead easy to do small items. A big thing that's hollow (like a loco shell) needs more skill and experience. Small 2D things are simple. The only time I did a 3D item it worked OK but, effectively, you need two moulds (both halves) therefore twice as much rubber as well as wasted resin. So my 3D items (N gauge wagons, wagon loads etc) have used the 2D method. That is fine by inverting the mould and filling resin from the bottom. Being a cheapskate, I look round for cheaper resin and moulding rubber than Sylmasta but maybe to the detriment of quality. You also need to raid your kids Lego and Plasticene! That's my 10p worth as a rank amateur. Michael may well have a more professional answer. I cast the snow ploughs on High Peak using the 2D method and (at the risk of getting chucked off for going off topic) a rake of N gauge MRAs. Phil Edited February 22 by Phil Mason Spelling 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mason Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) N gauge MRA 3mm bogie sideframes and roof 'blobs' for TT cl76. The hollow body shell was cast professionally because I can't do that but I thought the roof detail might not work well if part of the body. I hope I'm forgiven for not sending this as a personal message but I can't emphasise enough how easy resin casting is and how useful it is for anybody with a 3mm 'workbench' who wants to make more than one of the same item. It should, therefore, be of interest to other people. Phil Edited February 22 by Phil Mason Format 2 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted February 22 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 22 57 minutes ago, BetweenTheTunnels said: Michael, Can I ask what you use for making moulds and then what resin do you use for casting? Im going to 3D print some small detail parts, but as they will need cleaning and a bit of work, my idea was to use them as masters (once cleaned up and sorted) and resin cast the ones for the models. So any help would be welcome. Richie Much as Phil said above, we do get rubber and resin from Sylmasta (actually Sylcreate now), the rubber is 380, the resin is G27LV. Almost everything I mould has one flat surface, this is stuck down on the bench with double sided tape with a Lego brick box around it. When moulding the flat surface is uppermost and after pouring a small piece of waxed perspex is put on top and weighted down. It is possible to mould items with very large undercuts by this method, the rubber is very flexible and we can do tapered chimneys - even buffers although these need a split making in the mould (only partly split, not completely separated so they spring back together). Chimneys and domes are set on an appropriate diameter bar to pour the mould (usually a Blu-Tack box in this case), the same diameter bar is used in place of the flat perspex to mould the base. 2 1 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mason Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Cab roofs and glazing bars in place. Lots of filing and shaping to do but I'll leave it to harden further overnight. I think it's starting to look a bit growly now. I'm constantly checking dimensions against the drawings. The basic principle being "If it's too big, file a bit off. If it's too small, stick a bit on!" Thanks for everybody's interest so far. I hope it might inspire others to have a go. Phil 3 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted February 26 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 26 I've rather hastily started this Jidenco kit of a dia.72 L&YR Fish Van this afternoon which is making slow but steady progress. I say hastily because I don't have much information about them other than a side on photo and a couple of drawings that I've found. Both the photo and the instructions suggest that the livery is white with black lettering in both L&Y and LMS days which I'm not sure if I can get transfers for, there were no castings either with the etches so I'll have to source some or maybe modify some others from my small spare stock. I'm hoping that CCT may do some transfers ? I only got the kit last Sat so it's definitely 'queue jumping' in my to build list but is needed for a friend's train in March. First time that the soldering iron has been weilded for a while as well so I might just try and finish off my S&DJR Mail van that is at a similar stage whilst I'm at it. Best wishes, Ian. (Who is watching the Class 37 build with fascinated interest !) 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mason Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Well done to get it all square. All I've ever managed is a couple of lopsided diesel loco bodies in brass. If it's black lettering, it should be easy enough. If you could PM me the picture you have, I might have something. Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mason Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Cl37 progress, if anybody's interested. It doesn't look a lot different but I've worked on the windows and started on the 'tumblehome' (or whatever it's called) at the bottom. Also a sheet of 10 thou on the roof which needs to harden before bedding in further and sanding. I'm insure about the doors at this stage; I may wait until after painting and glaze at the same time. 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT100 Diesels Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) The 37 is fantastic work Phil, really starting to look the part now. Keeping on the subject of nose locos, I am looking to do a big Peak, like this An EH 45/1, 45127 at Nottingham in 1980, my photo. One of only two remaining split box /1's by that time, the other was 45120. Got a Lincoln Locos centre motor chassis and a 3d print body (Lenny's first one - I got the body only in early 2020 way before hed had sorted a chassis out). So, this is it, the starting point. Even in 3mm its big, and got some presence about it. But still needs some tweaking and mods to sort deficiencies and get it to 1980 condition. As a 45, needs the bottom grille plating over Moulded cab handrails need to be removed plus some slight filling on the cab "joint" for defects. Boiler filler steps need filling in, 127 were flush by 1980. Headcode boxes need widening by 0.5mm, they are just a bit too square as printed. Ideally the windscreen "frames" need removing but am not 100% on doing that, its easy to make a big mess on a curved front, so we'll see. A bit of filler repair already started from some time ago on the nose front. Need to think about removing the moulded nose end hand rails as well, but they are very small so again might be making extra unnecessary work, we'll see. Bogie frames are class 40 with the big cut out over the pony wheels, to be filled as per Peak bogies. And a few other defects here and there to smooth off / filler jobs, but on the starting blocks. Cheers D. Edited March 1 by TT100 Diesels Spelling 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT100 Diesels Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Carrying on with the Peak, I had more pics to post from the initial work carried out, following on from the introduction post. Lower grilles both flushed off ready for the representative plated cover to be fitted. Printed cab handrails removed, plus a defect flushed off below the main grille. First pass filler on boiler filler access steps (the sticky outey bits were sanded flush first), filling in a cab joint defect, filling in the deep recessed headcode blind boxes (virtually flush on photos) and a roof to body side 3d print defect groove. Representative of the work required around the body shell. And first pass filler on the bogie side frames to convert the class 40 cut out to class 45 solid plate. Put it aside now for a day or two, want the filler to be properly hardened before sanding flush and any second pass filler applied. All minor fiddling in the grand scheme of things, hope folk are not too bored by a workbench blow by blow account, or perhaps as its a new project I am still keen so still a bit snap happy, but this sort of work is nothing compared with Phil's scratch build 37 up thread. And Red Devil's motorised chassis building and R.C. exploits, but at least it proves that 3mm modelling is alive and kicking in its many and varied forms, and what with 03060 and TT Pete posting recently 👍. Between the Tunnels is getting started as well, the 3mm scale specific area is not tumbleweed any more. I'll vote for that! Cheers D. PS - I am not trying to take over the workbench thread again Mr Bradfordbuffer, honest guv 😉. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mason Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 45/1! Proper engine, sir! These 3D prints really are the biz. Even the grilles look great; I think I'm making a rod for my own back trying to use brass. What are you using for filler, by the way, and does it adhere well to the 3D stuff? Trouble is, you're now going to need a rake of a/b blue and greys for a crack Sheffield (or Nott) -StP. He he! Dead jealous but, as you say, it shows where we're going in 3mm. I've no reservations about saying it's the best scale and, as a life long N gauger and occasional 00 dabbler, I think I'm allowed to say it. Our light has been under a bushel (or whatever) for far too long. Fantastic! Phil 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted March 1 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1 (edited) Prompted by @TT100 Diesels the L&Y Fish Van makes slow but steady progress, several etches being fitted at least twice until I was happy with their positions. Thanks to Alan Smith (torpedo vents) and @Phil Mason of this parish (black transfers) I now have all the items to complete this little project and just need a good day tomorrow to get it as near to the painting stage as possible by the end of the w/end. It now sits temporarily on it's wheels which are removed and kept well out of the way whilst soldering takes place. Before I recommence work on the S&DJR Mail Van remind me to grow my finger nails a bit longer as trying to solder those long end vents on square blooming well hurt !! LoL Love the Peak, one of my favourite diesel classes and still amazed at how well the Class 37 is appearing before our very eyes out of plasticard. Best wishes to all connected with this 3mm workbench thread (even if you're just making a passing visit) ... it really is a great scale to work in. Regards, Ian. (Who also has a large N gauge collection and dabbles with other larger scales.) Edited March 1 by 03060 Additional info added.) 3 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT100 Diesels Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 47 minutes ago, Phil Mason said: 45/1! Proper engine, sir! These 3D prints really are the biz. Even the grilles look great; I think I'm making a rod for my own back trying to use brass. What are you using for filler, by the way, and does it adhere well to the 3D stuff? Trouble is, you're now going to need a rake of a/b blue and greys for a crack Sheffield (or Nott) -StP. He he! Dead jealous but, as you say, it shows where we're going in 3mm. I've no reservations about saying it's the best scale and, as a life long N gauger and occasional 00 dabbler, I think I'm allowed to say it. Our light has been under a bushel (or whatever) for far too long. Fantastic! Phil Seriously Phil, when I look at your 37 and think about your scratch built diesels and electrics, my Peak is a seriously easy proposition in comparison, with Lenny to thank for a heap of development and manufacturing work. That being said, it still requires a reasonable amount of modelling to get it to my requirements so all is not lost ...... 😉. I am not a builder like you, but I like to think my finishing (paint / weathering) bears scrutiny. And yeah, a 45/1, going back to the pic of 127 up thread, cant you just hear that Sulzer twin bank 12LDA28B humming away on fast idle with the eth genny spinning and then the compressor kicks in....... For HPJ a 45/0 makes more sense, but /1's got around on all sorts and dammit, I just really fancied a /1. Filler wise, the older repair on the nose is milliput fine, but the stuff I put on today is Delux Materials Perfect Plastic Putty. Does it work on 3d, well in a day or so when I sand it flush I shall find out if it crumbles away or does the job! Oh, and Ian, nice work on the mail van, brass as an art form I would say. Way above my pay grade, take a bow. Cheers D. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mason Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Wondered why my letters smelled of fish... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mason Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 9 minutes ago, TT100 Diesels said: brass as an art form I would say. Way above my pay grade, take a bow. Indeed! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradfordbuffer Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Do all 3mmers stay up late? Walmed the printer up today, not played with it for prob 3 weeks as too much other stuff going on....opened cover to mix resin up and two plate wagons sat there waiting to be freed from build plate! Good dunk in ipa bingo plate wagon. I printed one last month and cured it on window sill and curved up at ends so the new ones sit in there supports with a small weight a strip off brass as a blast weight and strengthener will keep them level brake gear and hand brake far to delicate so need to go back to computer and fiddel Lowmac printed but I might of over supported it don't know if it will come of clean Both stl files are by ironmink designs on thingiverse scaled to .99% to print at the premiere scale Off to local show at Keighley tomorrow so might have mojo back and give a dusting of primer rather than waiting for my little brother to paint my vga vans he's holding them hostage and the release fee is me finishing his loft conversion....😤 Night night 3mmers! 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT100 Diesels Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 A quick update to Phils question about filler on 3d prints, today, I sanded flat the Delux Materials Perfect Plastic Putty and happy to report that it was good, it did not crumble away. However, of note, the Lenny 45 shell came supplied already sprayed up in grey primer, so the plastic putty had something to key to. Still need to apply a very small thickness to finish off but before that, started on the headcode box mods, with 0.5 mm thick micro strip glued to the inside edge of the split headcode boxes to extend the width of them to improve the look vs photos. However, the excess needs trimming so I am again leaving it a day so the glue is nice and hardened off. See I just faff, that's why stuff takes me so long even when I have hold of a round tuit. Cheers folks D. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mason Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Love the plate and lowmac wagons. They look fantastic! Great to see such a variety of active modelling on here - so many different approaches! I did Keighley yesterday, sorry to miss Mr Buffer and no 3mm but good show, nevertheless. Phil PS Thanks D100 / must get some of that Delux stuff. By the way, is the Peak to be 'Sherwood Forester'? Think that was split box... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted March 3 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3 (edited) Well some progress made with the fish van yesterday but not until I had realised that I had made a bit of a mistake (also spotted by @Phil Mason) with the solebar overlay ethches which should have had the top couple of millimeters bent over at 90' which I had originally been aware of but had managed to either forget or convince myself not to do as there was no fold line in the etches, this can be seen in the first photo ... the solebars being much deeper than the buffer beams ... having filled the swear box I decided that I needed to remove them again, bend them and refit them which lost me an hour or so but looks better for it (see 2nd photo.) I did manage to fit the small bracket details onto one side only, one of these took nearly as long as the solebar rectification as it just wouldn't take for some unknown reason. There is also a flaw with kit that I am aware of and still need to address. This flaw is that the initial 5 sided etch (including floor) folds up to make a lovely square, open box BUT the etched side and end detail overlays have unfortunately been etched to the same size as face they are to fit onto when they should have been a tad bigger to give butt joints where they meet, as it is there is a roughly 0.5 mm recess on the outside of all 4 corners. The instructions did mention this area would need fettling with brass strip (so the designer was aware of the flaw) but had I fully understood why this was then I think that I would have cut down (rather than folded up) the original 5 sided etch into separate pieces, filed them down a little before soldering back into a box shape that would then be slightly smaller than the overlay lengths and allow them to butt up to each other. My options now are to try filling the recesses with either wire or strip and then file to shape, fill with a filler (not sure that this would work) or more drastically seperate all of the sides and floor using a piercing saw and do what I should maybe have done in the first place ! I'm still undecided about this but might as well try option 1 first and see how it looks ... who knows, it might even work !! I was hoping to do this tonight but a late and tired return home from a visit to Newcastle has convinced me to get a good nights sleep and see if I can pinch a couple of hours in the morning before I prepare for a night's OT shift with a very quick turnaround back onto days for the rest of the week. I'm conscious that I don't have much useable time in which to finish this wagon before it is needed for display (Mar 16th) but I'll try. Hopefully more positive news later in the week to report. Regards, Ian. Edited March 3 by 03060 Correction 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mason Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Sorry, Ian. What a faff! But, as if on cue, I've just found my own mistake. I must've been following a drawing for a 37/4 variant rather than the c1980 example I was trying to model. The issue was the grilles on the nose. To be honest, I'd a niggling feeling something wasn't right and it was only after pouring over loads of photos that I realised they must have altered the grille arrangement during modification for ETH. What I needed was a big grille on the left and a smaller one on the right as originally built. Fortunately, I'd left a full size grille underneath so it was just a question of cutting away the overlying 10 thou skin on the left nose and adding a bit of 10 thou on the right. Hopefully, it'll be OK after some filler and further sanding. Other work has been more subtle - footsteps and access hatches. I'm also planning out the nose ends for headcode box and lights etc. At this stage, I ought to hand over to master tweaker TT100 (sorry, not D100 'Sherwood Forester') but I'll soldier on. Actually, adding the detail bits is quite enjoyable, like painting, if you've a good photo to copy. I haven't, unfortunately and I haven't even decided on a particular loco yet. This is a mistake and led to the fore mentioned issue. That's it for another late night from a former shift worker. At midnight thirty there are some foxes outside making noises like children being murdered! Time for bed... 4 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradfordbuffer Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 More 3d3mm stuff From cults3d for a couple of quid got a OCA airbrake wagon (I know the society does one)several stl files included in down load 2 presupported 4mm versions underframe and body and several for you to scal, support and print... I done 2 in the flat result good body detail no clean up needed but buffer beams splayed out under body suffered from elephant foot as resin had no where to drain and sat giving a bulging bottom! 2hr print 30p in resin Slight re model needed. The pre supported file was scaled and printed 2 body and 2 underframe 9hr 60p in resin for print,one body suffered from the attack of godzilla and de laminated (also puncturing the resin vat plastic bottom FEP resulting in resin leak lucky I fit a screen protector on so no expensive replacement of LED screen) Body has quite a few print lines but a smooth bottom. Underframe is nicely detailed but is too narrow for 14.2mm wheels with not as much material as the vga van so I will rescale a 1mm wider so will test again The designer has several post 80s wagons on and a lot of lines detailing stuff Also just found another designer who does a blue spot wagon grampus continus welded rail train roller wagon and a viaduct inspection crane on a warwell wagon all in n gauge so should print up in 3mm ok he also has a PWM 060 shunter but that's 20quid and needs underframe but does a none working one so if you wanted a static model for pw yard it's a good one 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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