Exhibitions Layout Features

[298]

6 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

Blimey - you've followed my career in layout building! If you're coming to Warley do please say 'Hello'.

 

I did ask you sometime at the beginning of this century at a show in the South East if you had any info about Yakima as I had decided to model the Trolleys there, but you replied explaining it was just the name that you had borrowed. 

 

I did see Beijiao at Stevenage in January, but you looked too busy to say hello, I was wearing my Yakima Washington T-Shirt. I did intend to go to Warley this year as quite a few friends have layouts there but I then had to move some annual leave about to cover other shows and I lost interest and gained only maudlin during the usual build-up hype.

 

Going back on topic, large shows are obviously a better place to see long trains in action, a recent count at a smaller rural show indicated most layouts were of the end-to-end type, the only continuous runs were moderately sized N gauge. I very much enjoyed operating a friend's layout of this type at Stevenage and using the old adage that the hobby is only ever going to be as good as the contributors towards it, made me think that a planned Majorcan layout would nicely fit the bill. Unfortunately though the problem as mentioned above of finding time to exhibit and an often general lack of interest and support in doing so means that such a layout built just to exhibit wouldn't see much use and would be difficult to engage in. 

 

So all hail those exhibiting large roundy roundies, long may your days continue.

[Andy Reichert]

A couple of the comments here and elsewhere (see Heckmondwike) that described the more fine scale layouts as "dull" make me wonder whether a lack of fast movement and frequency is genetically uninteresting to most non-engaged humans. The "take notice" fight or flee threat reaction is triggered by a sudden unexpected sight of movement. So we all pick up on that. e.g. "you made me jump"

 

And as a separate thought, I do believe that humans automatically underestimate the speed of scale models relative to their model surroundings, My model streetcars shouldn't go round 90 degree city street corners in 2-3 seconds, but most observers thinks that's just fine. In reality, it's well over a scale 30 mph and definite derailment speed, let alone violently throwing the passengers sideways off  their seats. Many model trains at shows have the same issue, but it's not so easily to judge when they are travelling around (relativley) shallow curves and straight lines.

 

Andy

[johnarcher]

1 hour ago, Andy Reichert said:

A couple of the comments here and elsewhere (see Heckmondwike) that described the more fine scale layouts as "dull" make me wonder whether a lack of fast movement and frequency is genetically uninteresting to most non-engaged humans. The "take notice" fight or flee threat reaction is triggered by a sudden unexpected sight of movement. So we all pick up on that. e.g. "you made me jump"

 

Andy

That may be so in some (many?) cases, but I have had experience sometimes of 'non-engaged' (ie non-railway-keen) people at shows, and they are often much more engaged by model landscape or buildings than anything moving.

I remember the first such time, I talked my new wife into going to a show in London c1980, I wanted to see Tregarrick, but it was Axford she liked, where the railway was hardly obvious and while, it being Dave Rowe, some things did move they weren't the attraction.

(She was non-engaged, we had been engaged but were married by then!).

[john new]

 

On 17/11/2019 at 13:15, john new said:

As a consequence of this thread I had a few thoughts and drew up the options grid below for a forthcoming post on my blog. At the time I thought it would be easy to see where I fitted into it; then realised it isn't! Across the hobby spectrum my knowledge/ability varies from pretty advanced to definitely low but well above dunce, e.g., the finer details of wagon brake gear, underfloor coach gubbins, etc. Additionally even where my knowledge is good on a topic, that varies by company, era and region.

 

There are some modellers at the apex of our hobby who will obviously fit mostly down the right hand column but will (possibly) have rows where it falls left of that. The grid does not even touch on areas like shunting versus just watching trains circulate.

 

 (Image reinserted below)

 

Blog post finally made - see it here

Edited November 12, 2022 by john new
Photo(s) found and replaced post crash.

[Nearholmer]

The "interest grid"is an interesting idea, but I sort-of couldn't complete it in a meaningful way, for a couple of reasons:

 

- it doesn't ask much if anything about operating a layout, which isn't "modelling" I grant, but is, for many, rather an important part of the hobby, otherwise, I suppose, more might create purely static models. As one who likes to "play trains" to timetable sequence this omission is quite important;

 

- it doesn't seem to accommodate something that is very common indeed, what might be called "typical-lancing" or "free-prototyping", where people create models of imagined places using realistic scenery, often with the buildings being replications of real ones, transplanted into the imagined scene. I suppose The Vale Scene at Pendon is the uber-example ....... how would that fit on the grid?

 

Maybe the issue is that many of the things it examines are actually multi-dimensional, two likely dimensions for each topic being "craft skill level" and "desire to achieve prototype fidelity".

 

I'm not sure whether you intend to use it widely, or if so to what purpose, but if you do, it might be worth road-testing it on a few people and de-bugging it before doing so.

 

Kevin

 

PS: I was going to debate your definition of "collector" too, but having seen the beautiful HD layout on your website, I won't.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Nearholmer

[john new]

36 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

The "interest grid"is an interesting idea, but I sort-of couldn't complete it in a meaningful way, for a couple of reasons:

 

- it doesn't ask much if anything about operating a layout, which isn't "modelling" I grant, but is, for many, rather an important part of the hobby, otherwise, I suppose, more might create purely static models. As one who likes to "play trains" to timetable sequence this omission is quite important;

 

- it doesn't seem to accommodate something that is very common indeed, what might be called "typical-lancing" or "free-prototyping", where people create models of imagined places using realistic scenery, often with the buildings being replications of real ones, transplanted into the imagined scene. I suppose The Vale Scene at Pendon is the uber-example ....... how would that fit on the grid?

 

Maybe the issue is that many of the things it examines are actually multi-dimensional, two likely dimensions for each topic being "craft skill level" and "desire to achieve prototype fidelity".

 

I'm not sure whether you intend to use it widely, or if so to what purpose, but if you do, it might be worth road-testing it on a few people and de-bugging it before doing so.

 

Kevin

 

PS: I was going to debate your definition of "collector" too, but having seen the beautiful HD layout on your website, I won't.

 

I started the grid as it seemed a good idea at the time -  has proven to be one of those things that possibly needs more work on it than the result will justify!

 

Thanks for the compliment on the former HD layout, I have never been a pure collector as I've had a passion for HD since the 1950s but to run not to stick in a case.  I have some rare-ish items but no boxed mint that is too valuable to put on a layout.

Edited November 27, 2019 by john new

[St. Simon]

Hi,

 

I wanted to drag up this thread to ask a couple of further questions about technology.

 

My first is regarding technological features of a layout and at what point do things become gimmicks or what point does technology start to overwhelm the audience? 

 

On my layout, I already have DCC Sound*, a full signalling system presented to the audience on a PC screen, auto station announcements* and a Level Crossing. I’ve also identified a couple of places I could use other background sounds* to enhance the layout as well as some miniature working displays (such as the TrainTech SmartScreen). There is also technology such as the Faller Car System (although my layout isn’t suitable for such a system)

 

So the question is, how much technology should we be putting on exhibition layouts?

 

Secondly, I’ve asked about additional information presentation before, but I was wandering whether, with the increase in cheap tablets and digital photo frames, information should be presented in a digital format such as a PowerPoint presentation like style or even (silent) videos? Could videos be used to show features of the layout that are others only shown at certain times (such as special trains or shunting moves)? Could they be tied to the operations of the layout (I.e. a certain train appearing causes a video to be played)?

 

I don’t believe we should ignore technology with the model railway, it’s just to what level would the public visiting an exhibition expect is to embrace it?

 

* These sounds will be at a sensible level so as not to deafen the audience or annoy neighbours, so can we discuss this under the assumption that this is a given and not get into an argument about sound levels!

 

Simon

[john new]

I have a largeish spare Flat screen TV so have been pondering using it for realistic moving digital backscenes, conversely I have wondered whether at times we seek to actually model too much of the model village and whether a more cartoon like selective representation is all we need with the actual railway element concentrating on operations (think the signalling layout at the NRM). I am not advocating just toy like buildings but something in the right architectural style for where it is supposed to be but with a minimalist approach not the full on Pendon.
 

Very many exhibition layouts these days, albeit with several exceptions, are simply tail chasing train set ovals; the advancement beyond the ex-box Hornby track mat is in the scenery and details but operationally they are just as sterile. Highly detailed but boring operationally. As a watcher I would look at a Little Bytham-esque layout and appreciate it, but would prefer to own and operate something more like the old Trent Section by Norman Eagles, scenic warts and all, but updated from clockwork to electric operation. 
 

Edited June 9, 2022 by john new
Spelling.

[fulton]

7 hours ago, St. Simon said:

 

 

Secondly, I’ve asked about additional information presentation before, but I was wandering whether, with the increase in cheap tablets and digital photo frames, information should be presented in a digital format such as a PowerPoint presentation like style or even (silent) videos?

Just my thought, a layout with photos and information, maps etc. you can skip over most of it and concentrate what interests you, I find a digital display tedious as it scrolls, then moves on from the picture that interests you, short silent videos seem to work better, viewing angles can be quite limited as well, on some devices.

[Chris M]

If a layout is designed to include certain hi-tech features then it can work well. While I do like to see a layout with interesting innovations I must say my main interest is seeing well thought out layouts running trains well. Creating a good scenic layout with plenty of sensible trains running along it should always remain the priority of anyone building a layout for exhibition purposes. Having said that, a layout must also be entertaining and if technology can help on that score then great. The problem is that one man's entertainment may be another man's irritation. Sound fitted locos being a classic example of this.

 

My current layout has no tech and no gimmicks and almost certainly won't ever have any. Well the semaphore signals work but I don't see that as hi-tech. On my previous layout I could raise a thunderstorm and also could lay on various sounds to match parts of the scenery. I only used this when little ones were viewing the layout and they seemed to enjoy it. At one exhibition I was told that my layout deserved a prize for creating the most smiles which I thought was the greatest complement I've had.

 

I can see that adding a screen to explain the trains and their movements would add to the visitor's experience but it would mean more setting up, more to go wrong and probably more work for the operators. So, as much as something along those lines might be good, and I admire those who do that sort of thing, I won't be adding a screen to my layout in the foreseeable future.

 

I say add tech to exhibition layouts by all means but make sure it is there to enhance the visitor's experience. 

[Jol Wilkinson]

9 hours ago, St. Simon said:

Hi,

 

I wanted to drag up this thread to ask a couple of further questions about technology.

 

My first is regarding technological features of a layout and at what point do things become gimmicks or what point does technology start to overwhelm the audience? 

 

On my layout, I already have DCC Sound*, a full signalling system presented to the audience on a PC screen, auto station announcements* and a Level Crossing. I’ve also identified a couple of places I could use other background sounds* to enhance the layout as well as some miniature working displays (such as the TrainTech SmartScreen). There is also technology such as the Faller Car System (although my layout isn’t suitable for such a system)

 

So the question is, how much technology should we be putting on exhibition layouts?

 

Secondly, I’ve asked about additional information presentation before, but I was wandering whether, with the increase in cheap tablets and digital photo frames, information should be presented in a digital format such as a PowerPoint presentation like style or even (silent) videos? Could videos be used to show features of the layout that are others only shown at certain times (such as special trains or shunting moves)? Could they be tied to the operations of the layout (I.e. a certain train appearing causes a video to be played)?

 

I don’t believe we should ignore technology with the model railway, it’s just to what level would the public visiting an exhibition expect is to embrace it?

 

* These sounds will be at a sensible level so as not to deafen the audience or annoy neighbours, so can we discuss this under the assumption that this is a given and not get into an argument about sound levels!

 

Simon

 

"Tech" should only be used if it enhances the viewers enjoyment and, in the case of sound, isn't an annoyance or distraction.  to neighbouring layouts, demonstrators or traders. My experience is that, in a relatively noisy exhibition hall , layout sound is normally turned up to a level where it is an annoyance to neighbours who have to listen to it all day. Perhaps the answer for sound is a Bluetooth connction that sends a presentation and live sound to earphone equipped mobile phones. You could also add CCTV point of view  shots.

 

An exhibitor's priority should to display a well observed and modelled, reliable and interesting layout (accepting that the last point is rather subjective). Reliability is crucial and the more that can go wrong or fail, then the less reliable your display will be. It should also be easy and enjoyable for the operators. I have seen layouts with high tech displays and operating systems brought to a complete stop because of a technical failure . Any breakdown can be disfficult to diagnose and fix, is depressing for the operators and frustrating for the viewers.

 

Recognising the likely experience and knowledge of viewers is also a factor in whether any information provided, whether by printed posters, handouts or TV/computer screens is worthwhile. What visitors to a local club show will appreciate may be quite different to those visiting "finescale" shows (although some exhibitions bridge the gap successfully).

 

I believe visual surroundings for the layout is also important to focus the viewers attention on the model. The baseboard height should give optimum viewing for the majority of viewers and a proscenium arch style display will focus attention on the model, rather than behind the scenes activities.

 

On a personal note, I prefer to see great modelling, well displayed, rather than everyday models with load of layout gimmicks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ColinK]

I like layouts which have info eg about the prototype on panels to read either between movements or while waiting to get close to the front of the layout.  Such info does mean I spend longer at that layout.  I prefer these to be printed rather than screens.

 

Info about the movements currently taking place on the layout is also interesting and useful, e.g. parcel train arrives and the vans are shunted into the bay platform for unloading.   While I have seen this provided by cards (usually the back of the operating instructions), it could be presented by screens, perhaps more than one so everyone viewing can see it.

 

Operational railway features eg working signals, level crossing gates, are part of the railway scene so I like to see them working. 
 

Things like moving people are more of a gimmick to me, they don’t usually detract from the layout, but for me don’t add to it either.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

Simon

 

I am so glad that you brought this thread back to the forefront of people's attention.

 

I have this morning re-read the entire six pages and I've never used the 'like' and 'agree' buttons so often in all my time on RMweb. More later once I have managed to get my thoughts together. My layout is VERY niche (China in 2001) and so I am very keen to reach out to viewers. I am trying to appeal to the family market without alienating the serious enthusiast - a difficult middle ground.

Edited June 10, 2022 by TEAMYAKIMA

[grahame]

11 hours ago, St. Simon said:

 

So the question is, how much technology should we be putting on exhibition layouts?

 

 

I don't think there is a 'should' with regards to a prescribed amount. That is surely the layout builders choice.

 

But bear in mind than there are customers/viewers who can find excessive technology oppressive and distracting (from the modelling). Some find sound annoying, other see model lights as bright, unrealistic and over dominating, working cameos/features as gimmickry, and so on. Just in the way that some find various genres, locations and eras not to their liking and will only give a passing glance at the layout.

 

So, remember that the more technology you add, as well as being interesting and novel to some, there will be those who are put off by it and will pass by the layout at exhibitions. It's more a matter of balance and appropriateness.

 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by grahame

[TEAMYAKIMA]

Just in case anyone doesn't know/remember where I'm coming from, my layout is purely for exhibition use and I feel that I have to inform, engage and entertain my viewers and there are many ways that I have tried to reach out to the non-enthusiast ( and hopefully the enthusiast as well! )

 

One feature of the layout is the authentic shops inspired by real shops I photographed in China. Each of my shops represent what the prototype shop sold/did and I have made a display and challenged viewers to find them on the layout. The display is set up right in front of the viewer and it was great at my last show to hear young children discussing which ones they had found.

 

 

At both ends of my layout I have displays which tell viewers the basics - where, when and why things are happening. This is version #4 as over time I have reduced the text and the number of photos as I think less is more, but increased the font size in order to make it easier to read. In that context, I think having the row of photos across the middle breaks up the text into two easily read 'chunks' which is less intimidating than if I had had one big chunk of text with the same photos along the bottom.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by TEAMYAKIMA

[Chris M]

Well this topic revival has been useful to me albeit in a slightly off topic way. It’s reminded me that I should design and print a few information panels for my layout before the next exhibition. My layout is kind of the opposite to Teamyakima in that I would expect almost everyone to know quite a bit about what I am trying to portray. The location I have modelled is less than ten miles from the location of my next exhibition so I expect to have some interesting conversations. I’ll have to work hard to find something interesting to say on any information panels. Perhaps explain that real locations have to be compressed to fit into a layout sized space.

[fulton]

I was just about to post the same as above, for my new exhibition layout, now working on the back scene  boards, will try to not have the information boards looking like an after thought, but will be low tech.

[Rivercider]

On 09/06/2022 at 23:05, St. Simon said:

Hi,

 

I wanted to drag up this thread to ask a couple of further questions about technology.

 

My first is regarding technological features of a layout and at what point do things become gimmicks or what point does technology start to overwhelm the audience? 

 

On my layout, I already have DCC Sound*, a full signalling system presented to the audience on a PC screen, auto station announcements* and a Level Crossing. I’ve also identified a couple of places I could use other background sounds* to enhance the layout as well as some miniature working displays (such as the TrainTech SmartScreen). There is also technology such as the Faller Car System (although my layout isn’t suitable for such a system)

 

So the question is, how much technology should we be putting on exhibition layouts?

 

Secondly, I’ve asked about additional information presentation before, but I was wandering whether, with the increase in cheap tablets and digital photo frames, information should be presented in a digital format such as a PowerPoint presentation like style or even (silent) videos? Could videos be used to show features of the layout that are others only shown at certain times (such as special trains or shunting moves)? Could they be tied to the operations of the layout (I.e. a certain train appearing causes a video to be played)?

 

I don’t believe we should ignore technology with the model railway, it’s just to what level would the public visiting an exhibition expect is to embrace it?

 

* These sounds will be at a sensible level so as not to deafen the audience or annoy neighbours, so can we discuss this under the assumption that this is a given and not get into an argument about sound levels!

 

Simon

I think using screens to show slides or videos that are relevant to the layout  is a good idea, as long as they are positioned so that viewers of the screen do not obstruct the views of the actual layout in operation.

As regards the use of tech on the layout itself I think it depends on the actual layout. Some layouts based on prototype might benefit from subtle automation. Large numbers of gimmicks should be reserved for layouts aimed at families or younger viewers,

 

cheers

[St. Simon]

Hi,

 

Some interesting points, and all of which I agree with, I think a layout should be well presented and not filled with obvious gimmicks. I was just wandering other peoples perceptions of what are gimmicks and technology for technology sake or genuine innovations that could be brought to an exhibition layout given the technology.

 

I think the feelings that are coming across are that technology should be sutble effects that you you catch out of the corner of your eye rather than 'look at me' whizzy lights etc. However, I was thinking that the problem is that the techology that is needed to model real life, particularly the privitisation era as I do, often comes across as gimmicky (traffic lights, digital displays, belisha beacons, CDL lights on multiple units), but in a way it needs to be on a modern layout in some cases to portary the technology around us in real life. I hope that makes sense?

 

On 10/06/2022 at 10:05, grahame said:

I don't think there is a 'should' with regards to a prescribed amount. That is surely the layout builders choice.

 

Yes, a poor choice of words on my part, and I agree that technology has to be proportional to the rest of the layout and enhance the layout

 

6 hours ago, Rivercider said:

I think using screens to show slides or videos that are relevant to the layout  is a good idea, as long as they are positioned so that viewers of the screen do not obstruct the views of the actual layout in operation.

As regards the use of tech on the layout itself I think it depends on the actual layout. Some layouts based on prototype might benefit from subtle automation. Large numbers of gimmicks should be reserved for layouts aimed at families or younger viewers,

 

cheers

 

This got me thinking, I was thinking of digital photo frames or similar mounted to the front of the layout that people could read / watch either in between trains or in association with, but you make a good point is that will this hinder people trying to view the layout as people are 'blocking' it by reading all the information? How much information should be presented?

 

Simon

[john new]

The other thorny dichotomy is visible or totally hidden fiddle yard areas?

 

This is particularly relevant to the fairly small, straight layouts - do they use a traverser, sector pate, cassettes, fiddle sticks, sidings, what have they got in their off set stored stock etc.; probably of no interest to most of the Joe public visitors but of great interest to some of the modellers at the show. I have seen over the years some layouts of the big roundy-roundy variety where the back storage loops are of more interest than what is out at the front! The stock being of more interest than the scenery, why a test track oval can be satisfying to watch.

 

I do like to see how things are done "off stage" because, as a modeller, I may see something I want to copy; the converse is that the very nature of them being within the general description of "off stage"means they are not part of the public viewing set. 

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by john new
proof reading & punctuation corrections.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

1 hour ago, john new said:

The other thorny dichotomy is visible or totally hidden fiddle yard areas

 

I think we are4 drifting slightly off topic, but yet again we come back to theatre analogies. If I'm at a theatre I want to be surprised by whichever character enters the room via that side door - I don't want to see the actor loafing around, looking at his phone or eating a Mars bar.

 

Consequently, I do everything I can to hide the fiddle yard tracks from the viewing area. Of course referring back to the theatre analogy, I would welcome a behind the scenes look when the play is on and so if people want to make a conscious effort to come round and see the stock, they are welcome.

Edited June 11, 2022 by TEAMYAKIMA

[john new]

1 minute ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

Yet again we come back to theatre analogies. If I'm at a theatre I want to be surprised by whichever character enters the room via that side door - I don't want to see the actor loafing around, looking at his phone or eating a Mars bar.

 

Consequently, I do everything I can to hide the fiddle yard tracks from the viewing area. Of course referring back to the theatre analogy, I would welcome a behind the scenes look when the play is on and so if people want to make a conscious effort to come round and see the stock, they are welcome.

Agree, hence stating it is a dichotomy. If my current small shunting plank ever goes out to a local show the off-stage bit is just that, it is under the control panel. What it doesn’t alter though is the fact when I am at a show, as a modeller, I want to see how other people have done it. There is a balance.

[wcrpaul]

On the slightly off-topic question of visible fiddle/storage, my visitors definitely like to see trains in waiting...

[Chris M]

I do my best not to let visitors see what is  in the storage sidings. There is plenty to see on the scenic area. I have 12 trains in the sidings and they will all pass through the scenic section within 15 minutes or so.

[Dagworth]

Both Ravensclyffe and Dagworth have their fiddle yards inside a 360 degrees view layout so can’t be seen by the public, I prefer not letting the public know what’s about to appear out of the tunnels. 
 

I’m now considering how I’m going to achieve the same thing with Ipswich where the fiddle yards are underneath the scenic part of the layout, it may be I install curtains so we can access the yards but so they are mostly hidden. 
 

Andi