UFOs - Is anybody out there?

[Reorte]

5 minutes ago, Nick C said:

If you wanted to actually travel interstellar, you'd need another couple of  orders of magnitude on top of that - the distance to the nearest star is about 4.37 light years, or 25 trillion miles - that's 4 and a half years at 670,616,629 mph.

Surely either instant or infinite at that speed, depending on your point of view...

Edited July 5, 2021 by Reorte

[-missy-]

16 minutes ago, Nick C said:

 

Whoever made that one up presumably doesn't actually know much about flight - 2000mph is roughly the speed of an SR-71 Blackbird, to even get into space you need to be going much faster than that, with average orbital speed being around 17,000mph and Earth's escape velocity being roughly 25,000mph. If you wanted to actually travel interstellar, you'd need another couple of  orders of magnitude on top of that - the distance to the nearest star is about 4.37 light years, or 25 trillion miles - that's 4 and a half years at 670,616,629 mph. 

 

 

Hi.

 

That is of course, if whatever they are conforms to our space/time convention. As Einstein suggested, it may be possible to distort space/time to make long distance space travel possible.

 

A classic example is the the average house fly. Ever wondered why its extremely hard to 'swat' one? Think of a fly as a mini ufo......

 

Missy.

Edited July 5, 2021 by -missy-
clarity

[adb968008]

Its all about making money.

 

 

[Crisis Rail]

On 22/06/2021 at 15:24, brossard said:

Don't know if Elizondo is really a huckster.  You really need to check out the History Channel series "Unidentified:  Inside America's UFO Investigation".  Elizondo travels the world investigating sightings and interviewing a lot of influential people.  The show features some very credible people, including Chris Mellon, former Asst Defense Secretary.

 

https://www.history.co.uk/shows/unidentified

 

Chile is very interesting and is alleged to have the most UFO sightings, possibly due to difficult to inhabit parts of the country (desert, wilderness).

 

While, from what I've seen and read, the evidence for UFOs is pretty clear, that they are operated by extraterrestrials is less clear.  The possiblity that these things are deep black super secret defense projects needs to be ruled out first.

 

Scientists will tell you that extraterrestrial life will exist.  They also say that given the distance from the star system that they inhabit and danger that such travel entails, there is nothing in our solar system to entice these people to make the trip.

 

John

 

Odd that in all of todays photographic digital technology we still have to try and decipher a few grainy images be it from a fighter jet HUD display or elsewhere.

 

Why nothing has been published after 8 decades or so of interest to prove conclusively and say "there you go" I don't know.

 

The amount of stars (Suns) in the Cosmos does guarantee that extraterrestrial life does exist -  there is little chance that we are alone but the vastness of celestial distances may still defeat other lifeforms.

 

As many have mentioned before - whoever "they" are with any higher intelligence than humankind should give this Fugazi Blue Planet a serious wide berth.

 

 

[Crisis Rail]

3 hours ago, -missy- said:

 

A classic example is the the average house fly. Ever wondered why its extremely hard to 'swat' one? Think of a fly as a mini ufo......

 

Missy.

 

Easier to despatch when they have been battering their heads aimlessly against the window for the last half hour.

[Crisis Rail]

On 24/06/2021 at 00:19, Steamport Southport said:

 

Still going. Saw them about two years ago.

 

I think that was titled the Last Orders tour. Now there are dates for 2022 so I don't think they're giving up just yet!

 

http://www.ufo-music.info/

 

Way

Raymond

Chapman

 

Sadly missed 

 

Strangers in the Night still a definitive live album

 

 

[Nick C]

49 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

The amount of stars (Suns) in the Cosmos does guarantee that extraterrestrial life does exist -  there is little chance that we are alone but the vastness of celestial distances may still defeat other lifeforms.

If you consider the number of stars in the universe, the proportion of those known or believed to have planets, what we know about the conditions required for life to exist, and the sheer distances involved, you end up coming to the following conclusion:

 

1. There are alomst certainly multiple, probably thousands, of other planets out there with life.

2. They are all far too far away for us to ever communicate with, or even know for sure of their existance.

 

I've probably mentioned it here before - we've been pumping out radio noise (and been able to listen to it) for around a century. Radio waves travel at the speed of light, so the furthest we have managed to reach is 100 light years away - the diameter of the milky way is between 100,000 and 200,000 light years. It'd be a bit like an ant standing in London with a lit ant-size match, trying to see another ant standing in Sydney.

[Zero Gravitas]

3 minutes ago, Nick C said:

If you consider the number of stars in the universe, the proportion of those known or believed to have planets, what we know about the conditions required for life to exist, and the sheer distances involved, you end up coming to the following conclusion:

 

1. There are alomst certainly multiple, probably thousands, of other planets out there with life.

2. They are all far too far away for us to ever communicate with, or even know for sure of their existance.

 

I've probably mentioned it here before - we've been pumping out radio noise (and been able to listen to it) for around a century. Radio waves travel at the speed of light, so the furthest we have managed to reach is 100 light years away - the diameter of the milky way is between 100,000 and 200,000 light years. It'd be a bit like an ant standing in London with a lit ant-size match, trying to see another ant standing in Sydney.

 

This is exactly what the Drake equation was developed for:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

[Nick C]

2 minutes ago, Zero Gravitas said:

 

This is exactly what the Drake equation was developed for:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

I knew there was a proper equation, just couldn't remember what it was called!

[Crisis Rail]

6 minutes ago, Nick C said:

If you consider the number of stars in the universe, the proportion of those known or believed to have planets, what we know about the conditions required for life to exist, and the sheer distances involved, you end up coming to the following conclusion:

 

1. There are alomst certainly multiple, probably thousands, of other planets out there with life.

2. They are all far too far away for us to ever communicate with, or even know for sure of their existance.

 

I've probably mentioned it here before - we've been pumping out radio noise (and been able to listen to it) for around a century. Radio waves travel at the speed of light, so the furthest we have managed to reach is 100 light years away - the diameter of the milky way is between 100,000 and 200,000 light years. It'd be a bit like an ant standing in London with a lit ant-size match, trying to see another ant standing in Sydney.

 

Fortunate really.

 

I have never really been with the "Here we are"  "Come and Visit us" Radio Brigade - we have enough problems to deal with at the moment.

[Crisis Rail]

6 minutes ago, Zero Gravitas said:

 

This is exactly what the Drake equation was developed for:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

 

WOW!

[jonny777]

I don't think anyone can consider the number of stars in the universe, as they cannot imagine such a large number. 

 

After all, there are said to be 100 galaxies in the universe for every living human on this planet, and that is well big enough to be going on with. 

 

Our galaxy is 100,000 light years across, and so even the local distances are vast. Andromeda may be heading our way, but at the moment it is our nearest full size galaxy to the milky way; but even Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away. Any super intelligent lifeform in our galaxy which may have developed a means of travel at close to light speed would still take 2.5 million years to get there if they started today. And, vice-versa; so unless they have also developed almost everlasting life, or the ability to produce multi-generations which can survive over those time spans, they are not going to get here any time soon. 

 

As for radio waves; we have only been transmitting for 120 years, and therefore our communications are only 120 light years distant at present. If we continue to trash the planet at the current rate, transmissions will cease within another 100 and therefore a narrow window of 200 light years will be all that any random intelligent life forms will have to know we existed at all.

 

This also applies to us receiving broadcasts from other inhabited planets. There may have been extra terrestrials transmitting to us during the 17th and 18th centuries, but how would we know that their planet was hit by an asteroid or their star suddenly emitted such a large coronal mass ejection that it blew their atmosphere away? 

 

I don't see any reason why we must be the most intelligent lifeform in the galaxy. That idea is just human arrogance. If those with vastly superior intelligence to humans were employed to scout around this part of the galaxy to see what other life could be found, they would probably jump for joy when first viewing the earth from distance, but having flown closer and seen (relative to them) our backward warmongering global lifestyle, they would have sensibly kept a wide berth and put us down as another wasted world heading for a full scale nuclear exchange. I'm sure they would immediately switch all of their communications to a channel which they know we would not be able to pick up with our primitive 'fossil fuel based' equipment. 

 

 

[tomparryharry]

4 hours ago, -missy- said:

 

Hi.

 

That is of course, if whatever they are conforms to our space/time convention. As Einstein suggested, it may be possible to distort space/time to make long distance space travel possible.

 

A classic example is the the average house fly. Ever wondered why its extremely hard to 'swat' one? Think of a fly as a mini ufo......

 

Missy.

 A house fly takes off backwards. That is, to enable flight, the fly jumps up, with a bias to the rear. This is only momentary, as once the wings can generate force, it's away...I always aim to hit the fly on its backside. As the fly jumps up, its body meets the downward force of the flyswat coming down.  Not every time, but a good 80% success. 

 

I honestly believe there is  strong possibility that different life exists within the universe. It might require a different  level of consciousness, to which we don't possess. I think it's a fallacy to think we are sole occupiers of this little bit of wherever it is. 

 

The facts remain. If the Sunday Sport can discover a double-decker bus on Mars, it must be true! 

[tomparryharry]

5 hours ago, -missy- said:

 

Hi.

 

That is of course, if whatever they are conforms to our space/time convention. As Einstein suggested, it may be possible to distort space/time to make long distance space travel possible.

 

A classic example is the the average house fly. Ever wondered why its extremely hard to 'swat' one? Think of a fly as a mini ufo......

 

Missy.

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by tomparryharry

[-missy-]

Just now, tomparryharry said:

 A house fly takes off backwards. That is, to enable flight, the fly jumps up, with a bias to the rear. This is only momentary, as once the wings can generate force, it's away...I always aim to hit the fly on its backside. As the fly jumps up, its body meets the downward force of the flyswat coming down.  Not every time, but a good 80% success. 

 

Hi.

 

I was thinking more about how relative time was....

 

Quote

Have a look at a clock with a ticking hand. As a human, you see the clock ticking at a particular speed. But for a turtle it would appear to be ticking at twice that speed. For most fly species, each tick would drag by about four times more slowly. In effect, the speed of time differs depending on your species.

 

Now if you could adjust that to suit....

 

Missy.

[tomparryharry]

The greatest calamity that can befall our planet, is if a sentient being discovers our planet, and most important, makes contact. Deity, and all that, is liable to disappear in an instant. Keeping a lid on something like that is improbable, but not impossible. 

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, Crisis Rail said:

 

Odd that in all of todays photographic digital technology we still have to try and decipher a few grainy images be it from a fighter jet HUD display or elsewhere.

 

Why nothing has been published after 8 decades or so of interest to prove conclusively and say "there you go" I don't know.

 

20 years ago I was privilege to some rather high quality imagery, in real time from a government satelite, so clear I could read the tail sign of a commercial airliner in flight.

 

So when I see grainy black and whites 20 years later, I’m immediately skeptical. For sure sometimes intelligence can be dumbed down for commercial release to hide ones capabilities, but at high quality imaging available, from multiple sources, in multiple orbits, on demand, in realtime, they could be explained away without need for this to ever reach public consumption.
 

So to release it, dumbed down, the only thing unexplained is why to release it at all… nothing to see here, unless there's Hollywood movie coming and needs some market stirring interest generating ahead of it.

 

Is it about ..UFO no, earning ..USD yes.

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by adb968008

[tomparryharry]

2 minutes ago, -missy- said:

 

Hi.

 

I was thinking more about how relative time was....

 

 

Now if you could adjust that to suit....

 

Missy.

 

A close example is my little dog. I can see the next mile or two on the path, but when I got down to her level, you do gain a better/lesser  perspective. 

[adb968008]

3 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

 

A close example is my little dog. I can see the next mile or two on the path, but when I got down to her level, you do gain a better/lesser  perspective. 

I have that same feeling when I go north of the M25, the outlook shrinks a little. By the time I reach Manchester i’m looking in the rear view mirror to go forwards.

 

 

(ducks for cover)

Edited July 5, 2021 by adb968008

[Crisis Rail]

4 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

20 years ago I was privilege to some rather high quality imagery, in real time from a government satelite, so clear I could read the tail sign of a commercial airliner in flight.

 

So when I see grainy black and whites 20 years later, I’m immediately skeptical. For sure sometimes intelligence can be dumbed down for commercial release to hide ones capabilities, but at high quality imaging available, from multiple sources, in multiple orbits, on demand, in realtime, they could be explained away without need for this to ever reach public consumption. So to release it, dumbed down, the only thing unexplained is why to release it at all… nothing to see here, unless there's Hollywood movie coming and needs some market stirring interest generating ahead of it.

 

 

 

A Conspiracy?

 

Surely not.

[Reorte]

33 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

As for radio waves; we have only been transmitting for 120 years, and therefore our communications are only 120 light years distant at present. If we continue to trash the planet at the current rate, transmissions will cease within another 100 and therefore a narrow window of 200 light years will be all that any random intelligent life forms will have to know we existed at all.

 

This also applies to us receiving broadcasts from other inhabited planets. There may have been extra terrestrials transmitting to us during the 17th and 18th centuries, but how would we know that their planet was hit by an asteroid or their star suddenly emitted such a large coronal mass ejection that it blew their atmosphere away?

Overly pessimistic I think. Random chance could always wipe out all life but it's failed to do so here yet, and we've reached the point where human survival will be robust enough to anything short of that. We're not going to "trash" the planet badly enough to wipe ourselves out.

 

A more likely possibility is a switch of technology away from radio, or with what radio there is generally being low-powered and short-range compared to the more easily detectable earlier transmissions. We're starting to head a little in that direction here.

Quote

I don't see any reason why we must be the most intelligent lifeform in the galaxy. That idea is just human arrogance. If those with vastly superior intelligence to humans were employed to scout around this part of the galaxy to see what other life could be found, they would probably jump for joy when first viewing the earth from distance, but having flown closer and seen (relative to them) our backward warmongering global lifestyle, they would have sensibly kept a wide berth and put us down as another wasted world heading for a full scale nuclear exchange. I'm sure they would immediately switch all of their communications to a channel which they know we would not be able to pick up with our primitive 'fossil fuel based' equipment. 

Who's said that we must be? We don't know enough to be able to say how likely intelligence is to appear - a plausible case can be made for anything from we are the only intelligent life to it being commonplace.

 

Considering how behaviours evolve though I do find the "humanity's so terrible, aliens are much more likely to be far better" rather dismissive - a sort of reverse arrogance.

[adb968008]

14 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

 

A Conspiracy?

 

Surely not.

Unexplained Financial Object.

 

This one I always remember as an Unidentified Funny Object…

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/11/09/california.contrails/index.html

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by adb968008

[Reorte]

12 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

The greatest calamity that can befall our planet, is if a sentient being discovers our planet, and most important, makes contact. Deity, and all that, is liable to disappear in an instant. Keeping a lid on something like that is improbable, but not impossible. 

I don't follow you there. Religion has survived massive changes in knowledge. The idea of a vast universe being created and full of life certainly wouldn't be something that contradicts the concept; indeed, I'd have thought that such a large universe that was deliberately created almost entirely empty would be a bigger problem.

[tomparryharry]

Sorry, Deity might be a wrong choice of phrase.  Humanity does indeed live in a sort of bondage; implied or real. Knowledge is a handy control element. Until a few years ago, the sun circled the earth, and people were ostracised for that belief. Retained knowledge is a dangerous tool. 

 

Galileo was a lunatic, remember? 

[adb968008]

7 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

Sorry, Deity might be a wrong choice of phrase.  Humanity does indeed live in a sort of bondage; implied or real. Knowledge is a handy control element. Until a few years ago, the sun circled the earth, and people were ostracised for that belief. Retained knowledge is a dangerous tool. 

 

Galileo was a lunatic, remember? 

Some of us think DCC is out of date, that Cordless chargeable model railways operated by wifi with a cheap CPU could replace DCC for less than its current cost… but we are heretics too.

 

If I said I bought a 12 v UFO for under £20, that pretty much does that with rotors instead of wheels.. that actually forms the basis of an army of invading drones, flown here by the mothership from a land using pictures as a language in an alphabet unknown to most of us, and despatched across our country by a an entity known to some as a Forest in South America…

 

would I attract believers / followers or be burned again at the stake as I obviously wasnt cooked enough last time.

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by adb968008