Hornby Class 86 "Pheonix"

[Road Stone]

Hello All,

 

With the renewed interest in the Class 86, I dragged out my Hornby version which is about 25 years old but new. I have stuck in it a 4 function NCE decoder with Back EMF and after a couple of hours running in and fine tuning performs amazingly well.

 

However, it has developed a horrible lean to one side which I feel I must done something when removing and replacing the body.

 

Appreciate if someone could let me know if this is: Normal or if there is a fix?

 

Many thanks, Jerry

[Dagworth]

86s dont normally lean to one side, I've got lots of them and none have exhibited this problem. I would suspect that one of the bogies is not correctly assembled, make sure that the power unit is firmly located by the clips at each end into the bogie frame, and also that the pick up bogie block is properly located, and the right way round.

The internals of the bogies are direction specific and will not correctly locate if they are reversed. The body cannot lean sideways on the bogies because the flexicoil suspension springs will keep it upright.

 

Try dropping each bogie out and placing on the track to see if the bogie frame sits level with the rails, this should give you a pointer as to where the problem lies.

 

HTH

Andi

[Satan's Goldfish]

I'm looking at mine now as I write this as I also have a Hornby 86 with a slight lean, 86419 in Swallow livery. However to my knowledge it's never been taken apart for any reason and can see no logical reason for the lean. It's only a couple of degrees but is noticable compared to the rest of my 86 fleet. Picture below of it sat beside an upright 'Phoenix' (wonky swallow is the one on the right!) Close inspection of where the body and chasis join on the 2 models show the alignment to be identical and when they are placed on a flat surface the plastic mould coil springs sit on each side of the bogies as they're supposed to.

 

The only difference i notice is when rocking the locomotives from side to side on a flat surface is that the wheels on the 'phoenix' motor bogie lift off the table on one side almost as soon as it's leaned over to eitherside, but on the swallow 86 there's play on the motor bogie to the side it's leaning.

 

Just taken the bogie out.

 

There is play of the motor in it's bogie mounting and the clip to hold the bogie into the chasis isn't central. Suspect the weight of the motor and it's flexibility in it's mounting is causing the lean as there's no flexibility in the wheels on my 'Phoenix' when i try and wiggle them. Trying to see a way to tighten the motor in the bogie to remove it's ability to lean, but failing to. Let me know if you have any success, gotta stop playing and go now

 

[Road Stone]

Many thanks for the replies and I will try out your suggestions Dagworth & Baldrick25. I'm glad in a way this is not meant to be as I quite like the loco.

 

Satan's Goldfish: My lean is FAR worse than yours but likewise I've tried the rocking thing and the wheel lift up on one side too.

 

I'm going to try all the possible fixes and report back.

 

One more thing, I want to detail one end, has any of you done this, like larger buffers etc?

 

Cheers, Jerry

[Dagworth]

One more thing, I want to detail one end, has any of you done this, like larger buffers etc?

 

I've got various detailed Hornby 86s, and I'm very slowly working through the rest of the fleet that are waiting to visit works. My personal view is that the Hornby 86 is a better starting point than the Heljan one, it just looks more like an 86. Once detailed it can make a very nice model.

One problem with early Hornby models of which I believe Pheonix is one, is that there are no cab door handles present... Work I've done on mine includes:- reworking of headcode panel to incorporate working lights, replacement buffers, brake pipes, ETH cables, footsteps under the buffers, new pan from Somerfeldt, removal of the second compressor, new internals ex Heljan 33 to give it some serious grunt... some have had flush glaze fitted, others I havent bothered.

 

andi

[Road Stone]

I took the chassis out and then removed the bogies, and one futher step took apart the bogies then put it all back together carefully.

 

I still have a lean but more like the one pictured above. I took the opportunity to add weight to the unpowered end and this has improved the smooth running of the loco. A little more decoder tunning is now required.

 

Dagworth, I too have the jumpers and buffers to be put on, not sure about the handles, will have a look. I'd like to put lights on but no good at that sort of thing, is there a kit?

 

As I said I like this loco and would like to kit it out, have also started looking at cantenary systems!

 

Cheers, Jerry

[darren01]

Hi

Funny about the leaning locos ,i have an old Hornby Hymack that leans to the right ,has done ever since i had it.

Maybe it thinks its a pendoleno or where BR Secretly working on a early version APT

All the best

Darren

[Wayne Rite]

Hi,

 

Express Models do lighting kits for nearly every model loco made in the last twenty years, I have no connection with other than being a very satisfied customer, I have fitted about six sets of lights in loco's now, both DC and DCC and it couldn't not have been easier.

 

Beware however, if you are thinking of using OHLE as DCC decoders don't like the chance of a misfeed from the track at the same time as feed from the overhead, with DC you just get a dead short, with DCC you get a spectacular light display and smoke but it only happens once!

 

 

Cheers

[John M Upton]

If I recall correctly, many Ringfield Type five type Hornby locos had a mysterious 'cone' moulded to bogie cross bar on the chassis frame that seemed to serve no purpose whatsoever other than to make them a bit tippy toed and wobble about.

 

It's removal with a file or a razor saw usually was one of the first jobs I used to do to them back in the days when Ready To Run locos from Hornby and Lima meant at least an evenings work out of the box (and sometimes a partial or full repaint!!) to bring them up to scratch!!

[neal]

Check the decoder is clear of the bodyshell,

 

I had the same issue with a Bachmann deltic, and after much headscratching this was resolved by accident when I swapped the decoder.

 

N

[Lokomotivfuhrer]

I have a couple of these too - same Loco. in BR Blue.

 

Mine too had a very slight lean. I always thought it was to do with the fact that one pair of wheels on the Motor Bogie had Traction Tyres and the other didn't. However I did replace the Motor Bogies and the Non-Powered Bogies on both Locos some months ago, to improve running.

 

Fitted with replacement 5-Pole Ringfield Motor Bogies instead of 3-Pole, and the Non-Powered Bogies have Pick-up on both sides instead of just the 1 side. Improved the running quite a bit. Matter of fact, it was another member on the Forum that supplied me with the Non-Powered Bogies. The 5-Pole Motor Bogies came from M.B. Models.

 

 

Best Regards

Mark

[Road Stone]

My lean has returned and looks really bad, but I can not see why!

 

The chassis has not warped and sits on the bogies quite freely and they too are straight.

 

Odd and frustrating because it looks dreadful against the more modern offerings but runs really well.

 

Cheers, Jerry

['CHARD]

If I recall correctly, many Ringfield Type five type Hornby locos had a mysterious 'cone' moulded to bogie cross bar on the chassis frame that seemed to serve no purpose whatsoever other than to make them a bit tippy toed and wobble about.

 

It's removal with a file or a razor saw usually was one of the first jobs I used to do to them back in the days when Ready To Run locos from Hornby and Lima meant at least an evenings work out of the box (and sometimes a partial or full repaint!!) to bring them up to scratch!!

 

Did you check for John's mysterious cone? That was the cause of mine leaning like a Pendo, back in the day when I ran such things

[TRAILRAGE]

Resurection time! Check the cast block that sits inside the trailing bogie as they have a tendancy to wear out. I had to replace several of mine in my youth as I had worn them out with use. Very simple job and still available from Peters spares I believe. Easiest way to find out is put the cast block upside down on a piece of glass or mirror (needs to be a nice flat surface) check the axle slots for wear and pop one of the axles in. If its Worn you should see a drop on one side.

[AshleyH]

I remember the answer to this. It is the casting in the trailing bogie, but not in this case down to wear and tear.

 

For some time period in the late 1970s to early 1980s Hornby incorrectly milled the axle depth on the trailing bogie casting in many Rinfield motor Diesels and Electrics. If you remove the casting and the two wheel sets and simply turn the casting upside down and drop the wheels in place you will see that one of the axles leans or skews to one side. Phoenix was particularly affected by this, possibly because of its large diameter wheels.

 

So the solution is to obtain a replacement cast metal block. I really must get round to this on some of my collection!

 

Best Regards

Ashley

[marco demarco]

I had the same problem. Took the shell off and the chassis and bogies sit upright.

I attributed it to the wire connected to the underside of the roof, to the pantograph. If the wire is quite rigid, or short, then it will push or pull the body shell down, and it can only give by tilting. I detached the wire, give it a few more turns, ie: coiled it a little, and that balanced everything out.

 

It now stands proud and upright!

 

[i realise this thread is 6 years old but hope that others find this helpful.

 

marco