RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 28, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2019 My model of Brent station has now reached the ballasting stage of the build. My usual approach is using Carr’s light grey ballast for ballasted track and their ash ballast for the yard. However since the brake up of C&L and their move away from Bristol, getting hold of the stuff has been a lot more difficult. At Scaleforum I was able to get one tub of the light grey, so top of my shopping list for Warley was to get stocked up on Ash. Unfortunately that was not to be, when questioned Phoenix confirmed that due to the level of competition in the ballast market they will no longer be producing it. So naturally I grabbed the last large tub of the light grey to ensure (hopefully) that I have enough to ballast the whole of the mainline / branch line for Brent, but it leaves me with a real problem as to what I do for the yard. So now I am at something of a loss, I know Woodland Scenics offer a “cinders” ballast, but that looks far too dark. I have read enough horror stories about electrical issues when using the real thing to remotely consider it (though I am not against using it for areas away from the track). While I have tried Chris Nevard’s approach using clay, I didn’t get on with it very well (finding it messy and difficult getting the colour right). What other products are available, does anyone have a good solution to ash ballasting now that the Carrs product is no longer available? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetmorgan Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Have a look at DCC Concepts Legacy ballast. dark grey blend LB 2SE (steam era - dark mix) that to me looks like a mixture of ash, cinders and old ballast. I've tried using that on my diorama Wot Halt. You get some dark greys and also some shades of brown. I used 2mm N gauge size but it could do with some in fill of something finer than that. One down side was that when glued down with diluted PVA it did get a darker look than when it was sprinkled on dry...but that could just have been my gluing mix & technique Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharris Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, The Fatadder said: What other products are available, does anyone have a good solution to ash ballasting now that the Carrs product is no longer available? Have you tried Phoenix Precision Paints? - they took over a lot of Carr's distribution from C&L. Carr's Ballast (including Ash) is here: https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/ballast Phoenix often appear at shows - as far as I can tell, their next two are the Reading 0 Gauge on 7th December and CMRA, Stevenage on 11/12th January. C&L didn't break up - they had a change of ownership and location, and a change of focus mostly onto their own track components. Edited November 28, 2019 by sharris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 28, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, sharris said: Have you tried Phoenix Precision Paints? - they took over a lot of Carr's distribution from C&L. Carr's Ballast (including Ash) is here: https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/ballast Phoenix often appear at shows - as far as I can tell, their next two are the Reading 0 Gauge on 7th December and CMRA, Stevenage on 11/12th January. The word on the discontinuing of the product came straight from Phoenix on their stand at Warley. just wish they had told me when I asked for it at Scaleforum as it would have given time to find an alternative by Warley. I prefer to buy ballast in person given the high cost of postage! Edited November 28, 2019 by The Fatadder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 28, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, jetmorgan said: Have a look at DCC Concepts Legacy ballast. dark grey blend LB 2SE (steam era - dark mix) that to me looks like a mixture of ash, cinders and old ballast. I've tried using that on my diorama Wot Halt. You get some dark greys and also some shades of brown. I used 2mm N gauge size but it could do with some in fill of something finer than that. One down side was that when glued down with diluted PVA it did get a darker look than when it was sprinkled on dry...but that could just have been my gluing mix & technique Thanks, sounds like it is definitely worth looking at Do you have any photos of your work? Edited November 28, 2019 by The Fatadder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetmorgan Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Fatadder said: Thanks, do you have any photos? Not great ones. I'll have to do some better ones as I was just using my living room lights. Have a look at the end of the second page of my thread on Wot Halt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharris Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Fatadder said: The word on the discontinuing of the product came straight from Phoenix on their stand at Warley. Sorry - somehow I skipped the paragraph that you'd visited the Phoenix stand, however I did manage to add some online tubs to a hypothetical basket without it telling me they were out of stock, so it might be worth finding out if they still have some in storage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardman Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Woodland scenics do ash ballast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Do you have access to an open fire? A mix of sieved ash and some scrapings of soot from the chimney throat produce, as you would expect, a very realistic representation of cinders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 28, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2019 40 minutes ago, Killybegs said: Do you have access to an open fire? A mix of sieved ash and some scrapings of soot from the chimney throat produce, as you would expect, a very realistic representation of cinders. I do have access to one (and have used it’s output for the road on my other layout). But I have read in a few places about acid content in the ash playing havoc with the electrics. Something I am less than keen on. 1 hour ago, Yardman said: Woodland scenics do ash ballast. I had seen that, but from what I’ve seen it looks very dark. This is what I am aiming for: (extracted for purposes of research from eBay photos) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardman Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 hours ago, The Fatadder said: I do have access to one (and have used it’s output for the road on my other layout). But I have read in a few places about acid content in the ash playing havoc with the electrics. Something I am less than keen on. I had seen that, but from what I’ve seen it looks very dark. This is what I am aiming for: (extracted for purposes of research from eBay photos) Ash ballast is very Dark are you sure what you are looking at is not just dirty granite? Be careful of colours in any photo, too many variables to be accurate. Most North eastern branch lines used Ash ballast. I picked up Samples from the Rothbury Branch, it was definitely Ash. The picture below is Woodland scenics ash ballast. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb67 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, The Fatadder said: I have read enough horror stories about electrical issues when using the real thing to remotely consider it (though I am not against using it for areas away from the track). What are they Fatadder? I've not heard of any and was planning on using a load of real ash on my layout. Edited November 28, 2019 by sb67 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Hi Rich, Greenscene do ash ballast in three grades to suit 2 /4 and 7mm gauges and don't charge the earth for postage. http://www.green-scenes.co.uk/store?productlist-sort=score-desc&productlist-categories=&productlist-itemcount=20&productlist-search=ballast This is GS415 (4mm) which I am using for my new 7mm layout, I always use the next grade down from whatever scale I model in, so their 2mm G414 might be worth looking at for 4mm scale. Cheers, Geoff 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 2 hours ago, The Fatadder said: I do have access to one (and have used it’s output for the road on my other layout). But I have read in a few places about acid content in the ash playing havoc with the electrics. Something I am less than keen on. I have to say that I have had no such problems, perhaps I have just been lucky! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 I use children's play sand push it into position then PVA glue. Once it's gone off then paint it with track grot. Very cheep and quite effective. Marc 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted November 28, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2019 Chinchilla dust dyed with watercolours works well I find Nick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 I have used various colour and grade sands from Reptile/Aquaria shops. Black Desert Sand being a good one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.A.T.Ford Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 I needed ash ballast so I went to my local preserved railway and asked for a bag of smoke box char. They were very happy to allow me to take as much as I needed. I sieved this down and used the finest to ballast the track. Spray the ballast with water with washing up liquid and get it wet through then set it with dilute PVA or Copydex. CAT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexAshton Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Have a read of Chris Nevard's article here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nile Posted November 29, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 29, 2019 Remarkable, that's now 4 posts from people that didn't read the OP properly, or at all. Must be a record. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharris Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 8 hours ago, Nile said: Remarkable, that's now 4 posts from people that didn't read the OP properly, or at all. Must be a record. Glad I'm in good company then! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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