Exploding LED bulbs

[hayfield]

We recently bought a new lighting unit for over our dining room table, which is basically 3 lamp shades hanging down, our lighting was redone when we had an extension built 2 years ago and was bought up to the required standards at the time

 

We bought the lighting unit 2 mths ago, after 8 days the middle light stopped working. The lighting shop replaced the bulb without a quibble, 2/3 weeks ago in the same lamp the new bulb exploded, our electrician came round last thursday and checked both the lighting circuit and unit over, and found no fault,

 

This tuesday another bulb exploded, this time in another lamp. We have contacted the shop who are now in contact with both the manufacture of the lighting unit and the bulb company. We have been told are the only customers suffering these issues, and that in many years selling lighting they have only seen (been told about) one other bulb explode.

 

Basically the two times the bulbs have exploded, firstly they trip the fuse (not the RCD), when power is reapplied they explode. We have on the same lighting circuit other LED units in other rooms which have been there for 2 years + and suffer no issues.

 

Has anyone any thoughts please 

Edited December 5, 2019 by hayfield

[admiles]

Might be be worthwhile trying a bulb from another manufacturer in the fitting? Might help indicate if it's an issue with the bulbs or the fitting itself.

 

My money would be on the bulbs but that's purely guesswork on my part.

[hayfield]

The lighting shop is happy to supply a different make, however hearing back from both manufacturers might reassure us a bit

[polybear]

I'd change it no matter what.

Whilst not LED, I came home one night and I noticed something all over the kitchen floor; I went to put the light on (it wouldn't) so immediately assumed a blown bulb.  Turns out the original bulb was faulty, overheated (it was operating on a timer switch), melted the ceiling bulb holder which dropped the bulb all over the floor.

Glad I didn't have a metal bulb holder, otherwise I could've lost the house.... 

[Dagworth]

I'm wondering if the design of the lighting unit is such that the lamps cannot lose heat, are the shades closed or do they have a vent to allow air to flow upwards through them?

 

Andi

[D9020 Nimbus]

I've had halogen bulbs explode, but never LEDs. Though I did recently have to replace an LED bulb that was only just over two years old. It just flickered a few times and then went out. The other bulb in the same room, with the same amount of use, is still OK.

[hayfield]

40 minutes ago, Dagworth said:

I'm wondering if the design of the lighting unit is such that the lamps cannot lose heat, are the shades closed or do they have a vent to allow air to flow upwards through them?

 

Andi

 

Andi they have a hole above the lamp, opaque glass shades 

[RFS]

2 hours ago, Dagworth said:

I'm wondering if the design of the lighting unit is such that the lamps cannot lose heat, are the shades closed or do they have a vent to allow air to flow upwards through them?

 

Andi

 

LED bulbs generate very little heat. The LED bulb in our living room is 12W (equivalent to 100W incandescent) and is barely warm to the touch even though it's been on a couple of hours. I don't think heat is the problem here. 

[Jonboy]

Are the bulbs 12v or 240v? LEDs can apparently explode if fed the wrong voltage.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

7 hours ago, hayfield said:

...Basically the two times the bulbs have exploded, firstly they trip the fuse (not the RCD), when power is reapplied they explode.

Assuming the installation and power supply is correct, I would alert trading standards. That description says short in the circuit - blows fuse for overcurrent condition - then the failure occurs when power is reapplied. Possibly a manufacturing fault in the LED or any other components that there may be in 'the bulb'.

 

Weren't incandescent bulbs so nice and simple?

[Andy Hayter]

The OP is not alone in as far as I have had a couple of LED bulbs go bang on switching on.  They stayed intact and there was just a puff of smoke, but clearly when they fail it can lead to 220V going where it was not designed.  No danger as such though since our circuit trips have been tested and shown to be very sensitive to any earth leakage, so my failures have not resulted in a leakage to earth.

[Dave John]

When you say that the bulb "exploded" do you mean that something inside went bang with sufficient force to destroy the outer casing of the bulb and spread debris over a distance? If so then that is a serious design or manufacturing issue which I would certainly report back to the shop so that the matter could be relayed back up the supply chain to the actual manufacturers of the components that went into it, wherever they may be. 

 

I have had a number of LED lamps fail over the years with what was reported as an audible bang. On examination it was found that this was invariably due to failure of capacitors, dielectric failure leading to rapid localised heating and the resultant pop, though none ruptured the outer casing of the lamp.  I suspect that mass manufacture in prc with lower quality control is the issue, though difficult to prove. 

 

I estimate that I have fitted well in excess in of 5000 LED lamps and LED light fittings over the last few years and when examined after failure it is nearly always the driver electronics ( particularly capacitors ) that fail rather than the LEDs themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Edwin_m]

1 hour ago, RFS said:

 

LED bulbs generate very little heat. The LED bulb in our living room is 12W (equivalent to 100W incandescent) and is barely warm to the touch even though it's been on a couple of hours. I don't think heat is the problem here. 

However the actual semiconductor that emits the light is very small, so even though the amount of heat is small some careful design is needed for power LEDs to dissipate the heat without the temperature reaching damaging levels.  

[BR60103]

A lot of the LED bulbs sold here have a small warning that they are not to be used in fully enclosed lumieres.  Most of our ceiling lights are that, having the fishbowl screwed to the bottom of the fixture.  It took a couple of years before I could reliably find bulbs that didn't have that warning.

 

[Ozexpatriate]

I have used LED bulbs (almost) exclusively for over three years.

 

I have had some that failed - some intermittently before expiring with a bright flash. None of them exploded.

 

What is the specification of the bulb - meaning it's shape, wattage and the temperature* of the light? There are many shapes and sizes of LED illumination sources. 

 

* Not related to the heat of the bulb but the equivalent luminosity of a black body radiation source.  

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Ozexpatriate

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

My money would be on Chinese "friday afternoon" driver boards.

 

Mike.

[hayfield]

14 hours ago, Dave John said:

When you say that the bulb "exploded" do you mean that something inside went bang with sufficient force to destroy the outer casing of the bulb and spread debris over a distance? If so then that is a serious design or manufacturing issue which I would certainly report back to the shop so that the matter could be relayed back up the supply chain to the actual manufacturers of the components that went into it, wherever they may be. 

 

I have had a number of LED lamps fail over the years with what was reported as an audible bang. On examination it was found that this was invariably due to failure of capacitors, dielectric failure leading to rapid localised heating and the resultant pop, though none ruptured the outer casing of the lamp.  I suspect that mass manufacture in prc with lower quality control is the issue, though difficult to prove. 

 

I estimate that I have fitted well in excess in of 5000 LED lamps and LED light fittings over the last few years and when examined after failure it is nearly always the driver electronics ( particularly capacitors ) that fail rather than the LEDs themselves.

 

14 hours ago, Dave John said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The first bulb just stopped working and did not trip the fuse

 

The second and third bulbs first tripped the circuit (not the RCD) when power was restored both went Bang, the second blowing out the side of the bulb showering class and circuit board over the dining table, the third blew the glass bulb off the metal connecting part spreading glass & parts over the dining table

 

On the same circuit we have had ceiling mounted LED bulbs working for over 2 years without any issues

 

 

The other part is still in the bulb holder in the lamp

[hayfield]

Thanks for all the replies, still waiting for the lighting retailer to get back to me

 

I will keep trading Standards as a back up

[Dave John]

Agreed Hayfield, that is a serious design / manufacturing issue. The outer glass has clearly not been sufficient to provide adequate containment. 

 

An issue worth taking further for sure. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

One thought, I have seen lighting product for the 110-120V market sold into our 220 - 240V territory. Those let go fairly violently after some use...

[hayfield]

I just thought I would do a quick update. I decided to go to the shop yesterday to return the last working bulb and the 2nd one which exploded, the shop had agreed to replace all 3 bulbs with a set from another manufacturer. On taking out the remains of the second exploding bulb I noticed the plastic bulb holder had been damaged, so I took photos and returned to the shop. Sadly the shop owner/manager again was not there, I spoke with the assistant and showed her the photos and gave her the broken bits of bulb and bulb holder, I also said I was not very happy that no one had got back to me and insisted that the owner/manager phoned me that afternoon with a propersision 

 

Well there was an email waiting for me, basically saying both the bulb and lighting companies had not got back to her, and one CEO was on holiday till Friday, My reply was politely asking her to telephone them and sort it out this afternoon. Still no phone call but I received an email stating a new lighting unit was being delivered via overnight delivery, a different make of bulb will be supplied. But both shortening the wires and fitting costs are down to me.

 

Having paid an electrician to both check our electrics and to shorten the wires already, I feel the additional electricians costs to repeat the process should not be down to me as I have both faulty and now broken goods. The one fact that cannot be denied is that the bulbs exploding has damaged at least one fitment. Whilst the cause of why the bulbs are exploding is being argued about, the bulbs should not have exploded.

 

As of lunchtime today I have had no phone calls, I have spoken to the electrician who is coming on Monday. I do feel a bit sorry for the retailer as the problem has been caused by one of their suppliers, but I only have a contract and recourse against the retailer as I have no contract with either supplier.

 

Hopefully I will get a call later and will have to make another (4th) 12 mile round trip all due to faulty items. 

[hayfield]

Well I picked up the new lighting unit yesterday plus 3 new lamps from a different manufacturer (same as lamp supplier). I got a complete frosty reception as if it was all my fault, then I received an email slagging off my electrician (who is fully qualified and registered) use of a cable connector strip to join the 3 wires to the pendants (which needed shortening) to the single cable which attaches to the wire which connects (using a similar connector) to the house lighting cable.

 

We are constantly told to use local independent businesses. After this experience I certainly steer well clear from this one. Customer service was awful. Give me good old B&Q anyday (never thought I would end up saying this !!)

 

I will send the electricians bill to them plus something to compensate my 4 x 12 mile round trip journeys to resolve this matter 

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, hayfield said:

Well I picked up the new lighting unit yesterday plus 3 new lamps from a different manufacturer (same as lamp supplier). I got a complete frosty reception as if it was all my fault, then I received an email slagging off my electrician (who is fully qualified and registered) use of a cable connector strip to join the 3 wires to the pendants (which needed shortening) to the single cable which attaches to the wire which connects (using a similar connector) to the house lighting cable.

 

We are constantly told to use local independent businesses. After this experience I certainly steer well clear from this one. Customer service was awful. Give me good old B&Q anyday (never thought I would end up saying this !!)

 

I will send the electricians bill to them plus something to compensate my 4 x 12 mile round trip journeys to resolve this matter 

It is pretty disappointing when you get that sort of attitude, from local businesses.

 

I took one to the Small Claims Tribunal, years ago, when I purchased my first sound card for my PC, which was DOA. Refused to replace it (because it became apparent, that mine was the last one of that model and the better one was more expensive), blaming the installer - me, as I'd paid for parts only.

 

The business owner didn't turn up at the meeting - apparently because he went to court, regarding a customer who refused to pay - sounded like a pattern here!

 

I won, but I still had to harass to get refunded. I think I only did, when I rang up with a final warning to say that if I wasn't paid that day, I'd be taking it further. The office girl paid it, because the boss was in court, again!

[hayfield]

Kevin

 

The shop owner who I doubt has any electrical qualifications for some reason has been less than interested in resolving the matter, right from the start. I am so glad she supplied the bulbs at the same time as the light fitting. Clearly bulbs should not explode and was therefore responsible both for the bulb breaking the light fitting, and for the fitting if it turns out to be the fitting damaging the bulbs.

 

The bulbs which have exploded are a brand called Luxram. Never heard of them but they have a UK office

 

I will be contacting both Luxram and DAR Lighting in the new year, explaining to both companies what has occured. I assume she is caught between the two companies both disowning the problem. She actually said she was supplying the new bulbs from her own pocket as a gesture of good will and doubts that the lighting company will accept the return of the unit as (A) we have shortened the wires (B) The bulb holder has been damaged by the exploding bulbs

 

As for the shop owners surprise that we had to shorten the wires, the fitting's instructions clearly states trim the wires to length !! The electrician has used an electrical cable connector

 

Still gives me something to moan about at Christmas, just hope we do not have any mains powered party crackers above the dinner table