RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted June 15, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 15, 2010 I don't really see how all these things can turn up a the same time..... ..... I would be surprised if some of what has already been announced for 2011 sees the light of a British stockroom before the spring of 2012. Didn't I read somewhere that the Blue Pullman was scheduled for 2011? - However, I agree 2012 would be more likely with the amount of work involved. So then - £75 deposit - at what point should it be paid? 1. Now - so they start their research / CAD. 2. 6 months time, when details become clear. 3. Just before release. and in all of the above, the possibility that details are not quite right.... 4. Or when released and miss the opportunity. Maybe option 2 - But as I said earlier, this topic is going to run for the next 12/18 months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 The basic difference between the Blue Pullman power cars was in the passenger accomodation. The actual length between the engine compartment and the gangway was identical. However in that space in the Midland Pullman there were two first class seating bays (2+1=12 seats) and a ladies lavatory. The WR Pullman had three seating bays of second class accomodation (2+1=18 seats) and no toilet. The window spacing was different to reflect the greater legroom in the first class Midland Pullman, with smaller toilet window, as against the three identical-sized windows in the WR Pullman. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Again from Railcar: The biggest difference between the two power cars was the passenger saloons, being second class rather than first. There was no toilet in this (WR type 2) vehicle, being replaced by an extra seating bay on either side, and these could be identified externally by the larger window. Other external clues when new was that there was just the raised lettering "Pullman" at the top of the bodysides, and in the centre of the vehicle was an extra 'window' which was actually a destination indicator. Whereas the LMR sets only worked one service, the WR likely wanted to avoid people getting on the wrong train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 15, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 15, 2010 Didn't I read somewhere that the Blue Pullman was scheduled for 2011? - However, I agree 2012 would be more likely with the amount of work involved. So then - £75 deposit - at what point should it be paid? 1. Now - so they start their research / CAD. 2. 6 months time, when details become clear. 3. Just before release. and in all of the above, the possibility that details are not quite right.... 4. Or when released and miss the opportunity. Maybe option 2 - But as I said earlier, this topic is going to run for the next 12/18 months. There is of course another option - When you find out if/when they are making the one you want. Meanwhile here's another question regarding their proposed order of manufacture as shown in 'Hornby Magazine' (but still not on their website). One of their options is in the reversed blue/grey livery, but if it is a Midland set I'm fairly sure by the time they went into that livery they had been transferred and fitted with m.u cables. So will this livery be Midland power cars or Western? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Meanwhile here's another question regarding their proposed order of manufacture as shown in 'Hornby Magazine' (but still not on their website). One of their options is in the reversed blue/grey livery, but if it is a Midland set I'm fairly sure by the time they went into that livery they had been transferred and fitted with m.u cables. So will this livery be Midland power cars or Western?[/i] Yes Mike, The 6-car sets were fitted by the WR with mu-jumpers whilst still retaining nanking blue, though with full yellow ends. Later repainted into grey/blue livery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Regarding the small guards window in the LH door i've had another check in the main book and there are pictures of the WR set soon after built without the window.. So at least one of them wasn't built with them either. The fact the rest of the windows are different as well certainly shows the need for clarification on which one! By the end the sets were mixed up, the one at Cardiff was 1/2 WR 4-car and 1/2 LMR mix of cars.. Best avoiding that set for now . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Craig, These door windows were fitted late '59/early '60 before the trains entered passenger service. "Wing mirrors" were added soon after, around July '60. Beware of caption dates in some publications on the Blue Pullman. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Have a look at the link below, may answer some questions. http://www.railcar.co.uk/hisOthers/BPintro.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Have a look at the link below, may answer some questions. http://www.railcar.co.uk/hisOthers/BPintro.htm Doubtless when (or if ) a new model of the Blue Pullman is forthcoming, they'll be a thread on detail differences/minutiae of these units. At least OTs offering has brought the BP to the forefront again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted June 17, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2010 At least OTs offering has brought the BP to the forefront again. I for one am looking forward to seeing more details of the project - its very exciting, plus obviously a bold and brave move for Olivias Trains and Heljan. I never really thought we would see them being produced, so this is great! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I for one am looking forward to seeing more details of the project - its very exciting, plus obviously a bold and brave move for Olivias Trains and Heljan. I never really thought we would see them being produced, so this is great! Not sure about the 'and Heljan' bit, it sounds like its money up front for development and a decent deposit to get them on the production line so not really any risk for Heljan which is surely why the manufacturers like commissions. I'd always thought someone would do it eventually, in a few years I could probably have 3D printed it even.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted June 18, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 18, 2010 Not sure where you're coming from there. I made an appointment with the NRM to view the EM1 a few years back and they not only let me spend the day inside it but provided a ladder on wheels to enable me to photograph the roof in considerable detail. They were really helpful. Hi Neither am I. I went to the NRM a few years ago and I was looking at the EM1. I just happened to mention to my wife that I would love to have a look in the cab. Next thing I know she has gone to find someone who let me have a look around the cab. They also have special Cab It days where you can go in the cabs of various locomotives so I'm sure that if Heljan or Olivias Trains were to contact the NRM they would be able gain access. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 18, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 18, 2010 Surely any reputable manufacturer would be granted access for measuring, photography or whatever and all they need to do is ask? The NRM might - not unreasonably in my view - seek a fee for such access but that is no more than another development cost item. And other National Collection items have quite obviously been measured - by Bachmann, Hornby and Dapol, if not by Heljan Do we know if any manufacturer has been refused access to National Collection vehicles? On the other it might be that the NRM are saving the EM1 for a'special' of their own Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Not sure where you're coming from there. I made an appointment with the NRM to view the EM1 a few years back and they not only let me spend the day inside it but provided a ladder on wheels to enable me to photograph the roof in considerable detail. They were really helpful. Just stating the facts of what happened on the day. When they arrived and the people there knew who they were and are expected they then asked to be shown to where the 76 was and the girl said "which ones that one?" Have you got any roof pictures you could email to Heljan? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 18, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 18, 2010 Just stating the facts of what happened on the day. When they arrived and the people there knew who they were and are expected they then asked to be shown to where the 76 was and the girl said "which ones that one?" Maybe if they had asked for it by the way it is described on the NRM website or in the National Collection it would have produced a more helpful answer? To me it's an EM1 (black, number 26020), to some folk it's a Class 76, to the NRM it is 'Bo-Bo Electric Loco No. 26020'. And surely anyone who is involved in producing a model of it ought to know any of those descriptions? OT's website uses two of them (but not the NRM description of course). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Thanks for the offer of the pictures Alastair I am sure that will very much appreciated, I will ask the uk rep at Howes this weekend. The people that were at the NRM to look over the 76 were Olivias Trains, Heljan from Denmark and the uk rep from Oxford and plenty of pictures and measurements were taken of the boby sides and underframes but I still can't believe they were not allowed into the cabs!. Unfortunatly York is not 5 minutes away from Oxford or Denmark so they won't be popping in every now and then to look at it. I don't know if Heljan can wait for the next cab it event though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Cheese Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 With all this talk of Heljan being unable to gain access to the 76's cab, I must presume they are intending to model the interior to the standard found on Hornbys class 60? Having 20 odd Heljan locos in my collection I find the cab interiors to be one of the poorest areas generally, many of them being in crude half relief with only the vaguest nod to prototype accuracy. Considering the recent improvements by Bachmann and especially Hornby in this area, Heljan must surely realise they should be upping their game in this respect? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 19, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 19, 2010 There is a picture of the EM1 cab interior on the NRM website (in fact there are two pics but they seem to be almost exactly the same, certainly very similar). And there is, of course, the EM1 cab at Manchester Museum of Science and Industry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 Thanks for the offer of the pictures Alastair I am sure that will very much appreciated, I will ask the uk rep at Howes this weekend. The people that were at the NRM to look over the 76 were Olivias Trains, Heljan from Denmark and the uk rep from Oxford and plenty of pictures and measurements were taken of the boby sides and underframes but I still can't believe they were not allowed into the cabs!. Unfortunatly York is not 5 minutes away from Oxford or Denmark so they won't be popping in every now and then to look at it. I don't know if Heljan can wait for the next cab it event though. The Class 76 has asbestos within the locomotive so the cabs will remain 'off Limits' for a long time, suggest they go to Manchester Museum. Charlie Petty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 Not sure where you're coming from there. I made an appointment with the NRM to view the EM1 a few years back and they not only let me spend the day inside it but provided a ladder on wheels to enable me to photograph the roof in considerable detail. They were really helpful. Its called Health & Safety. Charlie Petty. EM2 Locomotive Society. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hadyn Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 The Class 76 has asbestos within the locomotive so the cabs will remain 'off Limits' for a long time, suggest they go to Manchester Museum. Charlie Petty Cheers Charlie - you beat me to it. That said, I didn't know of the request or visit - how long ago was it? I am normally very happy to grant access to vehicles for modelling purposes, all folks need to do is ask, but bear in mind that there may be asbestos issues or other reasons as to why FULL access might not be possible on a certain day. And also, please be reasonable - I'm on this forum for my hobby, not the day job, so please don't swamp me with asking. Many thanks Anthony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr miles 73129 Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Will the blue pullman coaches be avalable aswell because i cant work out if its just the power cars or not Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr miles 73129 Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Definatly want a EM2 look nice in the cabinate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Will the blue pullman coaches be avalable aswell because i cant work out if its just the power cars or not "Blue Pullman Power Cars & Kitchen Car Set" is what is being described at the moment, most of this thread is about us wondering what else will be produced. What has now been announced it seems is contrary to earlier ideas its the Midland version first! Great stuff, I get to see if its any good before committing as I want a proper WR one! "Midland Region Version With Midland Markings" "Transferred From The Midland Region As Operating On The Western Region" see http://www.oliviastrains.co.uk/shop.asp?crit=Pullman Its quite probable Blue Pullman drawings will surface at the NRM eventually as the Swindon stuff is looked through, I was certainly looking at the Blue Pullman motor car WR AWS fitting arrangement drawing there today (in amongst a box labelled 650hp DH). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 I'm amazed no one else has commented on the fact its a Midland Pullman after all the initial froth, anyone with thoughts on that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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