Formula 1, 2020

[didcot]

To quote  Mr Valentine "Money is the curse of all modern sports, Sir". 

 

[Pete the Elaner]

2 hours ago, micklner said:

I wonder if it would be good for F1 for Mercedes to actually leave the sport ?? .

 

Their total domination of the sport is now wrecking it, in short and if it continues long term. What sponsors and TV channels want to spend mega bucks on a team they know cant win , unless a accident occurs , of for TV companies show yet another forgone conclusion. I dont even bother looking at highlights anymore , read the result same oh same oh , and simply dont bother 99% of the time. I would dream of paying to watch it on TV ,sorry Sky !!. Mercedes rarely break down,  barring tyres , even then it still won !!

 

Luckily the BTCC is back thank god , proper racing and three different winners in the first three races !!

 

This is nothing new.

Looking back over the past 40 years, there have been far more seasons with 1 dominant team than there have been with genuine competition.

Someone will knock Mercedes off their top spot, but who & when?

 

On another point entirely, when Vettel signed for Ferrari, the press was full of "What has Alonso gone & done". He said at the time that Ferrari promised him a world title season after season & he never got it, so he would prefer to roll the dice & go elsewhere ... & if he failed to win, he had lost nothing.

Well since he left, Ferrari have won...nothing. You could argue that Vettel threw away 1 or 2, but the team have made their fair share of mistakes too & Mercedes have been given the freedom to let their drivers race. If there was genuine competition, they may have used team orders.

2nd/3rd rarely get remembered so does anyone think now that Fred make a cock-up by having another crack with McLaren?

[didcot]

The thing I don't get about F1 is the Concorde agreement. Teams negotiating rules for there own benefit. There should be a set on non negotiable rules. Sign up or walk. It needs a strong hand on the tiller. Unfortunately Bernie has screwed it up.

The sport shouldn't be regulated by those who take part.

Edited August 7, 2020 by didcot

[Pete the Elaner]

17 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

The whole F1 circus is now an embarrassing shambles. No evidence that RP did anything really dodgy - and of course they had their car approved by the FIA before the season started. But that whingy ghytt Abiteboul was on the case. And still is. If you can't win - protest those who do it better than you. Your sponsors will not forgive you for not doing so. 

 

Money and sport are a poor mix. If Mercedes walk for 2022, having scooped the pool yet again this year and next, who can blame them? And will that vacuum be filled?  

 

There we go again, the Ferrari support club...come down hard on anyone except the red cars.

The Ferrari incident which stuck out in my mind was the side pod barge boards back in the Todt/Brawn/Schumacher era. They were too big, bang to rights, no doubt whatsoever. "Oh, but they got no advantage so we don't feel they should be penalised".

A dimension is either legal or not .. just like the early 1976 McLaren was too wide & was rightfully disqualified.

[RJS1977]

Good explanation of the Racing Point decision here

 

The most interesting point (towards the end of the video) is that RP breached the sporting regulations, not the technical regulations - the parts are technically legal and as such can continue to be used, it was the means by which they were 'developed' that was illegal.

Edited August 7, 2020 by RJS1977

[Pete the Elaner]

5 minutes ago, didcot said:

The thing I don't get about F1 is the Concorde agreement. Teams negotiating rules for there own benefit. There should be a set on non negotiable rules. Sign up or walk. It needs a strong had on the tiller. Unfortunately Bernie has screwed it up.

The sport shouldn't be regulated by those who take part.

 

Most sports are.

I am not really into football but I expect the teams are involved with the running of the league.

Domestic speedway is run by the BSPA ... the promoters of the teams.

English cricket is run by the counties. India seem to have a larger say so they can arrange things around their IPL. DRS was in use for all countries except India because they refused (although they have since accepted it too). Cricket has the biggest following in India.

 

If all the teams decide to withdraw, then what happens?

 

It may be frustrating, but it is how things work.

[Darius43]

With all these appeals and the general whining/complaining nature of the teams is there any point in racing.  

 

Why not let the stewards decide the race results and save everyone the trouble of racing.

 

If they ever get all of this stupidity resolved they will look up and discover that F1’s audience has disappeared.

 

Darius

[didcot]

Yes, saw that RP had contravened the sporting regulations rather than technical.  Two sets of regulations muddies the waters some what. My eldest has just told me that Ferrari as well as Renault have lodged an appeal against the ruling. Ferrari have some brass neck! 

[Andrew P]

3 minutes ago, didcot said:

Yes, saw that RP had contravened the sporting regulations rather than technical.  Two sets of regulations muddies the waters some what. My eldest has just told me that Ferrari as well as Renault have lodged an appeal against the ruling. Ferrari have some brass neck! 

Yes just seen that here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53698785

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, Andrew P said:

Just watching the text from FP2 and Vettels car has blown, he has parked it, and apparently it looks like it's pouring oil out. Not the sort of start he wants again for this weekend, he may need a new Engine, unless that is a practice Engine and the Ferrari International Assistance say; no penalty because it a Red Car.

I gave a like to that as there isn't a cynical button.

[Hroth]

6 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Other practise sessions were interrupted by a foreign object in his pedal box.

 

Vettels foot in his mouth?

 

[skipepsi]

25 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Vettels foot in his mouth?

 

Pendant mode if his foot was in his mouth it couldn't also be in the pedal box, maybe a P45 or a snake or some mole grips? Book on DIY was an afterthought.

[RJS1977]

7 hours ago, didcot said:

Yes, saw that RP had contravened the sporting regulations rather than technical.  Two sets of regulations muddies the waters some what. My eldest has just told me that Ferrari as well as Renault have lodged an appeal against the ruling. Ferrari have some brass neck! 

 

Whilst some F1 rules are "sporting regulations" and others are "technical regulations", I don't think it's uncommon for sports to have different "sets" of rules.

 

For example the Laws of cricket are subdivided as:

 

1-12 "Setting up the game" - dimensions of pitch, stumps, bat and ball and duties of officials etc

13-16 "Innings and result"

17-23 "The over, scoring runs, dead ball and extras"

24-28 "Players, substitutes, runners and practice"

29-40 "Appeals and dismissals"

41-42 "Fair and unfair play"

 

There are some things a batsman (or the batting side) can be penalised for under Laws 41-42, that do not result in a dismissal (Laws 29-40), which is analagous to some things in F1 being covered by sporting regs rather than technical regs.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

20 hours ago, micklner said:

I wonder if it would be good for F1 for Mercedes to actually leave the sport ?? .

 

Their total domination of the sport is now wrecking it...

And there was I thinking that it must be all the other teams that are 'the problem', by failure to compete effectively.

 

Admitted, the combo of 'the driver of his generation' and the best car is a little daunting. Put Hamilton and Vettel in the Ferrari, with Alonso and Verstappen in the Merc, and any two drivers you think most able in the Red Bull for the last three or four years; and it might all have been 'excitingly different' with war to the knife within both the strongest teams, and Red Bull maybe able to profit from the internal wars elsewhere...

Edited August 8, 2020 by 34theletterbetweenB&D

[Derails Models]

Go Hulkenberg! P3 on his second weekend in the car....

Edited August 8, 2020 by Derails Models

[Hobby]

2 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Admitted, the combo of 'the driver of his generation' and the best car is a little daunting. Put Hamilton and Vettel in the Ferrari, with Alonso and Verstappen in the Merc, and any two drivers you think most able in the Red Bull for the last three or four years; and it might all have been 'excitingly different' with war to the knife within both the strongest teams, and Red Bull maybe able to profit from the internal wars elsewhere...

 

Verstappen would walk it with that combination, it would be the same as having Hamilton there.

[Pete the Elaner]

19 hours ago, didcot said:

Yes, saw that RP had contravened the sporting regulations rather than technical.  Two sets of regulations muddies the waters some what. My eldest has just told me that Ferrari as well as Renault have lodged an appeal against the ruling. Ferrari have some brass neck! 

 

They have not appealed against the ruling, just the punishment. As usual for F1, it is a bit messy.

 

FIA have found Racing Point guilty of using Mercedes components & punished them. Both Racing Point & Mercedes have denied this. Perhaps Mercedes would also come under scrutiny for selling/giving away their work?

Racing Point have therefore appealed against this.

 

Renault, Williams, McLaren & Ferrari have appealed against the punishment. They feel that Racing Point would gain more from using the components than this.

I wonder why Red Bull, AlphaTauri, Alfa Romeo & Haas have not joined the appeal?

 

So if RP's appeal is successful & the FIA decide that the components were not bought/donated after all, then I wonder what the other teams will do?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

35 minutes ago, Hobby said:

Verstappen would walk it with that combination, it would be the same as having Hamilton there.

Only in 2019, a near certainty that Verstappen would take the title. However, his racecraft on his debut was nothing like as complete as it is now, and it was only in 2019 that he 'fully graduated'. And don't forget he would be teamed with the thoroughly experienced Alonso while the newcomer, and there was never any doubt about his ability to make a good and reliable car go fast. There will be friction, pretty much white heat in that team.

 

Meanwhile Hamilton would have the very quick Ferrari of 2017/18 that Vettel wasn't able to fully exploit to the end of the season. Hamilton has proven endurance, a first half of the season lead isn't easy to tear from his grasp. Biggest obstacle a team mate quite prepared to have 'an accident' with him...

[black and decker boy]

23 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

The whole F1 circus is now an embarrassing shambles. No evidence that RP did anything really dodgy - and of course they had their car approved by the FIA before the season started. But that whingy ghytt Abiteboul was on the case. And still is. If you can't win - protest those who do it better than you. Your sponsors will not forgive you for not doing so. 

 

Money and sport are a poor mix. If Mercedes walk for 2022, having scooped the pool yet again this year and next, who can blame them? And will that vacuum be filled?  

It’s not 2022 that is at risk for Mercedes, it’s 2021. The Concorde agreement expires at the end of this season.

 

whilst the technical rules have been deferred by a year Due to Covid, the Concorde agreement has not

 

according to BBC, the deadline for merc to sign up is 12th August 
 

if they do quit, it looks like they will do so at the top. The problem for F1 is they may also lose them as an engine supplier which would seriously impact the field.

[Hobby]

2 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Only in 2019

 

I assumed you meant 2019 or now. I don't think Max is quite as good as Lewis, but with the advantage the Merc has over the others I recon he'd have won last year even if Lewis was in a Ferrari.

[Hroth]

6 hours ago, Derails Models said:

Go Hulkenberg! P3 on his second weekend in the car....

 

More fuel for the whingers. Hulk gets into the car for a second race and makes P3, and there's going to be a LOT of unhappiness at Ferrari!

 

 

[skipepsi]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

 

More fuel for the whingers. Hulk gets into the car for a second race and makes P3, and there's going to be a LOT of unhappiness at Ferrari!

 

 

Not as much as the Stroll household?

[Hroth]

8 hours ago, skipepsi said:

Not as much as the Stroll household?

 

After BOTH their cars qualified above the Ferraris?  They're living the Dream!

 

 

[Oldddudders]

15 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

After BOTH their cars qualified above the Ferraris?  They're living the Dream!

 

 

They can hardly have expected to be in among the Red Bulls, either. Stroll is driving consistently better than 'being the boss's son' would suggest. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

18 hours ago, Derails Models said:

Go Hulkenberg! P3 on his second weekend in the car....

Decided he really wants an F1 seat after all and advertising that he is prepared to try hard from now on? Unless he is super fit, I suspect physical fatigue - and Silverstone's corners are a prime selection to strain neck and shoulders - may limit his competitiveness in the latter stages.