Formula 1, 2020

[ianwales]

9 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

I was surprised to learn that Mugello used to be a longer track. A much longer track. A much, much longer track! For the sportscar round it hosted in 1966 it was 66.2 km long, and the race was just 8 laps! Targa Florio stuff!

 

Shades of the Nordschleiffe, pity we couldn't have had a F1 race around there this year.

[Andrew P]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Make the track the track, none of these coloured areas and weird kerbs, just black and white. There is enough sensor and comms capability now to detect and manage whatever is standardised as 'crossing the line' e.g all one tyre over the line: with a standardised penalty, immediate drive through of an extra speed limited stretch on the circuit as an example.

 

Might take several races to sink in, but once it is clear that 'go there, and you are so deep in the do-do' is established, drivers will only go off the race track by genuine 'accident' rather than by routine design.

Nice idea but make it exempt on the first few corners of the first Lap, as someone always get a push sideways.

[Sidecar Racer]

5 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

What I don't understand is why Bottas held on to the fastest lap. With 2 cars pitting in the last few laps, you would think that fresh tyres on low fuel would have allowed them to go faster, even though they would not pick up the extra point for it.

 

 You have to be in the points , ie. top ten, for the point for fastest lap , so as Russel

did stop for new softs even if he set fastest time he would'nt get the point as he

finished well out side the top ten .

[newbryford]

16 minutes ago, Sidecar Racer said:

 

 You have to be in the points , ie. top ten, for the point for fastest lap , so as Russel

did stop for new softs even if he set fastest time he would'nt get the point as he

finished well out side the top ten .

 

Quite - but how good would it be for any driver to set the actual fastest lap?

 

 

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2020/races/1054/russia/fastest-laps.html

[Pete the Elaner]

10 hours ago, Sidecar Racer said:

 

 You have to be in the points , ie. top ten, for the point for fastest lap , so as Russel

did stop for new softs even if he set fastest time he wouldn't get the point as he

finished well out side the top ten .

 

I know that but it wasn't my point.

The extra point goes to the fastest lap if the driver finishes within the top ten, not the fastest from those within the top ten.

A car nearer the back can still set the fastest lap. They won't get anything for it but they will stop anyone else getting the extra point..

 

Because they stopped late, both Norris & Russell should have been on low fuel with fresher tyres. Even with the Merc's performance advantage, I was expecting them to be faster than Bottas, who set his best lap on harder tyres either with a heavier fuel load or with them well past their best.

I can understand Russell not pushing because he has a Merc contract, but not Norris.

Maybe their tyres had just worn out & they had to re-use old sets from practise or qualifying?

[Sidecar Racer]

 

Pete , ignore my ramble , it was getting late and I did'nt read your post correctly .

 

You are right of course , and I imagine a front runner getting robbed of a

fastest lap point by a late charging tail ender would be a bit annoyed .

[PhilJ W]

All they now need is a competitive car for them to drive.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/57486/ferrari-announce-f1-debuts-for-schumacher-ilott-and-shwartzman/

[The Stationmaster]

Anybody got a few (million) quid to spare?  According to the finacial pages McLaren are looking at divesting, or at the least partially divesting, their F1 team from their main business because of the losses it is bringing to their bottom line.

[Classsix T]

8 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Anybody got a few (million) quid to spare?  According to the finacial pages McLaren are looking at divesting, or at the least partially divesting, their F1 team from their main business because of the losses it is bringing to their bottom line.

The "main" business of selling quarter million pound supercars is suffering 'cos of a highly expensive vanity project? Heaven forfend! 

 

This isn't new in the financial news AFAIK. Whilst the super rich were happy to buy super expensive cars, McLaren were doing very well thankyouverymuch, but oh no! Covid!

McLaren now pooping themselves they might have to break up the historic collection. 

 

Frankly I'm more concerned about whether my company sending out voluntary redundancy forms is a portent of things to come. If McLaren are broke, tiny violin.

 

C6T. 

[Classsix T]

Topic is now 85 pages, but I'm sure someone linked previously to a financial papers article wrt McLaren being in not great shape.

 

Don't get me wrong, I feel for those genuinely affected if job losses etc ensue, but don't pretend it's some kind of major national disaster that a company happy to offer investment opportunities to all and sundry suddenly can't deliver and, as is their right, said investors demand changes. That crap has been going on for forever. 

 

Mike is a master at not only Stations but digging around Companies House for details. Sir, how much do the Bahrainies own of McLaren? 

C6T. 

[The Stationmaster]

18 hours ago, Classsix T said:

Topic is now 85 pages, but I'm sure someone linked previously to a financial papers article wrt McLaren being in not great shape.

 

Don't get me wrong, I feel for those genuinely affected if job losses etc ensue, but don't pretend it's some kind of major national disaster that a company happy to offer investment opportunities to all and sundry suddenly can't deliver and, as is their right, said investors demand changes. That crap has been going on for forever. 

 

Mike is a master at not only Stations but digging around Companies House for details. Sir, how much do the Bahrainies own of McLaren? 

C6T. 

You rang sir.  There's been an awful lot of nmessing about with McLaren Group's share structure this year (pre-Covid mainly) but as at 26 february - when it was greed to issue new preference shares the holdings were as follows

 

Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Co.   52.68%

TAG Automotive Ltd. 14.298%

Nidala BVI.  10%

Favorita Ltd 5.764%

Perlman Investments Ltd  5.759%

McKal Holdings Ltd 5.232%

Acanitt Ltd 2.649%

 

That lot total 96% plus a few decimals places. No other holdings declared so they're probably less than 2%.

Nidala BVI is controlled by Michael Latifi. owner of the Canadian company Sofina Foods; his son has had an involvement with Force India in F1.

Favorita Ly td is probably the one registered in Jersey but several companies have that name

 

This is also interesting, it came up when I was looking for details of Perlman Investments -

https://theparcferme.com/ongoing-investigation-could-pose-risk-for-mclarens-reputation/

 

McKal Holdings is not registered at Companies House so is probably as offshore as some of the other names in that list

[newbryford]

24 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

 

Nidala BVI is controlled by Michael Latifi. owner of the Canadian company Sofina Foods; his son has had an involvement with Force India in F1.

 

 

 

Hi son is Nicholas Latifi - current Williams driver.

One of their principal sponsors is Sofina.

 

[Andrew P]

29 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

You rang sir.  There's been an awful lot of nmessing about with McLaren Group's share structure this year (pre-Covid mainly) but as at 26 february - when it was greed to issue new preference shares the holdings were as follows

 

Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Co.   52.68%

TAG Automotive Ltd. 14.298%

Nidala BVI.  10%

Favorita Ltd 5.764%

Perlman Investments Ltd  5.759%

McKal Holdings Ltd 5.232%

Acanitt Ltd 2.649%

 

That lot total 96% plus a few decimals places. No other holdings declared so they're probably less than 2%.

Nidala BVI is controlled by Michael Latifi. owner of the Canadian company Sofina Foods; his son has had an involvement with Force India in F1.

Favorita Ly td is probably the one registered in Jersey but several companies have that name

 

This is also interesting, it came up when I was looking for details of Perlman Investments -

https://theparcferme.com/ongoing-investigation-could-pose-risk-for-mclarens-reputation/

 

McKal Holdings is not registered at Companies House so is probably as offshore as some of the other names in that list

Thank you for your investigating and posting Mike.

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Andrew P said:

Thank you for your investigating and posting Mike.

Sorry I couldn't get to the bottom of all them Andy but one or two like to stay well hidden, especially Favorita (if it is the one I think it probably is).

[didcot]

Just breaking Honda to leave F1 at the end of 2021!

 

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-honda-to-leave-f1-at-the-end-of-2021.3nsZ7zzaokaze5Sjc4V6s0.html

Edited October 2, 2020 by didcot

[didcot]

Please Cyril, can I have my engine back!

[ianwales]

Interesting bit on the BBC F 1 site re the GP at Imola - “F1 has introduced a compressed two day on track schedule at Imola as an experiment as it looks to build longer championship seasons” - so Imola will be 1 practice Saturday morning, qualifying Saturday afternoon and the race on Sunday.

[Pete the Elaner]

1 minute ago, didcot said:

Please Cyril, can I have my engine back!

 

They didn't exactly split on the best of terms. I always felt that RB's open criticism of Renault's power unit was a bit silly. I can understand the drivers being frustrated on the radio but the rest of the team should have been a bit more diplomatic.

 

When they returned to F1, I really believed that Honda had the ability to catch up within 2-3 seasons but it seems that even now they are still behind the Mercedes.

 

Mercedes did not seem interested in supplying their engines, presumably because they felt the RB chassis would make them a threat. I doubt that will have changed. Ferrari will probably be reluctant for the same reason.

Unless there are plans we have not heard of, it would seem a little late for another manufacturer to enter the formula by 2022.

[Andrew P]

Can Aston Martin, a current Sponsor at RB build an Engine, and more importantly for Max, a competitive one within five years, as that is all Max will have left by then to get a Championship. It would be ironical if they won the Championship next year.

 

[Andrew P]

14 minutes ago, ianwales said:

Interesting bit on the BBC F 1 site re the GP at Imola - “F1 has introduced a compressed two day on track schedule at Imola as an experiment as it looks to build longer championship seasons” - so Imola will be 1 practice Saturday morning, qualifying Saturday afternoon and the race on Sunday.

That should make set up .

[Oldddudders]

17 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Can Aston Martin, a current Sponsor at RB build an Engine, and more importantly for Max, a competitive one within five years, as that is all Max will have left by then to get a Championship. It would be ironical if they won the Championship next year.

 

When an Aston Martin team was first announced it was hinted that they might build their own engine. Their limited resources, relative to other engine suppliers, inclined pundits to say it would never happen in any competitive form. With Merc so dominant that even Ferrari look flat-footed it is hard to imagine AM pulling out a true plum of an engine first time around. And Racing Point currently use Merc power, so are unlikely to change soon. 

[RedgateModels]

4 minutes ago, Classsix T said:

 

 

Alternatively some sort of license for Aston to build and develop upon that which Honda have already done, including purchasing all the manufacturing tooling kit necessary directly from Honda.

 

Tough choices, C6T. 

 

This is my bet, Aston run Merc for a year or so while the ex-Honda plant is developed for the Merc platform then switch when ready, making the engine available to other teams at the same time. RB might have to lump it with Renault for a bit though

Edited October 2, 2020 by RedgateModels

[Derails Models]

5 minutes ago, Classsix T said:

Alternatively some sort of license for Aston to build and develop upon that which Honda have already done, including purchasing all the manufacturing tooling kit necessary directly from Honda.

 

Are we about to see a repeat of 2009!? Brawn buys the Honda Engine Programme and powers RB to the 2022 championships, before selling to Merced.....oh wait.....

 

Jokes aside, I think this is the key - if Honda are willing to sell (depends if there are any "trade secrets" in there), could someone fresh join in with a decent PU, albeit with Honda DNA?

Edited October 2, 2020 by Derails Models

[PaulRhB]

But why will Aston take a huge financial step into a technology Honda sees as a limited lifespan when they already have access to the best engine?

[PaulRhB]

34 minutes ago, Classsix T said:

Honda won't give up their intellectual property, but may be open to another company building their power units. Or not, we'll have to wait and see.

But who’s paying for the development? You can’t hide the ip if you’re going to develop it further. It would just end up Aston paying Honda to develop it so they’re pouring money in without any technology to sell at the end of it! 

I can’t see that that’s feasible, customer teams work because the manufacturer invests in the engine technology and then can spread costs by supplying to others. I can’t see that it makes sense if Honda can’t see the point in investing for someone else to pay them to do the research and build for them! Licensed engine builds are pretty much frozen and only develop if the original manufacturer then designs additional parts. It just can’t work with cutting edge technology especially with the rule changes for 22. 
 

Edited October 2, 2020 by PaulRhB