Formula 1, 2020

[57xx]

1 hour ago, LNERandBR said:

Seemed to me like Russell and Bottas both needed to stop again because after the safety car restart Bottas just went backwards. Due to the mixup he was still on the same tyres that he came into the Pits with. Admittedly, both could have motored away like Perez did after the restart rather than being stuck behind other cars but the opportunity to stop to make it safely was there and it's a procedure they've done many times with both cars in the past. 

 

It's also a procedure that they know has lost their drivers races before too. Pitting is always risky and IMO should only be done when absolutely required.

[LNERandBR]

I think they did need to pit again to be completely sure they had the tyres to get them to the end. With the full safety car it was the right call to pit, it's just the calls from pitwall to pit crew got muddled.

 

Mercedes have become the masters of the double stack stop. It's worked right for them more times then it's failed.

 

I do think pitting at that time was the right call.

Edited December 7, 2020 by LNERandBR

[Andrew P]

This is a very interesting read, for those that feel GR should be driving the Merc in 2021.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/60147/why-mercedes-should-sign-russell-for-2021/?fbclid=IwAR0uxnjJulE1m0QorMD3gnDW7BlLoNUwI4EQliGyl-FKdo57gBnU3L2CPjk

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, 57xx said:

 

It's also a procedure that they know has lost their drivers races before too. Pitting is always risky and IMO should only be done when absolutely required.

Sometimes it's absolutely required (starts / stops raining, tyres have nothing left in them, damage needs repairing) but there's a lot of pit stop strategy, weighing the potential risks against the potential gains beyond simply having no other choice than to pit (how much variation there is, not really being up to date with current F1 regulations).

[Zomboid]

You can't be making pit stop decisions on the basis of "what happens if we mess it up".

 

Mistakes happen from time to time, and if Lewis had been driving then it would just be one of those things. It's seemingly a bigger issue because it ended the possibility of a fairy tale - whilst enabling a different fairy tale to be completed.

[friscopete]

Merc may well be judging Russells reaction to a cock up .Lewis was always full of praise for the team whatever was thrown at him........usually .

[PaulRhB]

Yep I think George did himself a huge favour, he was clearly gutted but showing passion is fine. He mixed it up midfield cleanly when dropped back into the pack and didn’t give up fighting up the field twice. He’s showing exactly what Lewis did in Turkey, ok I just have to deal with this and I’m pretty sure he would have tussled for p1 if the puncture hadn’t happened. In some ways not getting the fairytale ending keeps the pressure off and people want him to succeed even more. I’ve not seen anyone say he shouldn’t get a chance but I do feel sorry that Valterri is getting so little support in the press when he’s been pretty consistent and fast. He’s been a solid performer and it must be damn difficult to maintain that focus when your ego gets a constant battering alongside Lewis. 

[Crisis Rail]

15 hours ago, kipford said:

Gutted for him, but that's Motor Racing. 

 

Smell a rodent - anyone still going to be watching? -  maybe the GOAT is the machinery?

[37114]

1 hour ago, Andrew P said:

This is a very interesting read, for those that feel GR should be driving the Merc in 2021.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/60147/why-mercedes-should-sign-russell-for-2021/?fbclid=IwAR0uxnjJulE1m0QorMD3gnDW7BlLoNUwI4EQliGyl-FKdo57gBnU3L2CPjk

All very good and absolutely GR deserves a seat at Mercedes but removing Bottas to do it on the back of one race performance???? I get Merc have a wide range of data to base assumptions on beyond yesterday but it is a hugely risky strategy to remove Bottas and put GR in the car for next year. The expectation will be huge on his shoulders anyway whenever he moves into the Merc team but that only amplifies if you remove a solid no2 driver to it, every mistake would be "would Bottas do that, maybe he isn't ready etc". Sorry I can't see it making sense or happening at all.

[PMW]

The safety car came at a bad time for Mercedes.. As race leaders they had to choose their strategy based on how the cars behind would respond. I don't think they had to pit based on wear, the hard tyres, albeit with the reduced performance would go to the end but with a free pitstop available the choice to pit was a no brainer. If they didn't they would have Perez right behind them at the restart on fresh mediums and would be sitting ducks. So they chose to double stack which they normally do like clockwork but because of radio congestion the team had the tyres in the wrong order, hence Russell got the wrong tyres and Bottas went back out on his old ones. 

 

It's good to see that the FIA / Race stewards have not imposed any further penalty. 

 

As for Russell in a Mercedes next year it's very unlikely, no matter how much people want it to. (I did type it won't happen, then I backed down a fraction!) It is no secret that Merc wanted him to replace Bottas, but Williams refused to release him. They therefore contracted Bottas for another year. Now gpfans.com  might insist the time is right to move Bottas aside now and pay him off and buy Russell out of Williams but money in F1 doesn't grow on trees anymore, there is a spending cap. Driver's salaries are not included in the cap, but contractual fees are, so if they were to buy Bottas out of his contract, which would almost certainly require them to pay him in full, plus a penalty fee for breaking the contract, plus pay Williams to release Russell they are seriously eating into their available budget for next year. 

 

Just to put it into context, each car gets three engines, hybrid systems and gear boxes, plus a spare on hand in case on breaks, they use a fourth and take a grid penalty. Eight power trains for a Merc F1 car is $75 million of which they are allowed to discount the first $15m. Drivers salary and senior team staff are also excluded as is marketing and hospitality. The cap is $145m. Merc, Ferrari and Red Bull all employ in excess of 1000 people in their F1 outfits and are believed to spend in the region of $400m a year. They all have to make massive savings. They simply can't go splashing money around buying contracts out.  

[Jonboy]

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/50286/formula-1-driver-salaries-2020-what-lewis-hamilton-and-sebastian-vettel-get-paid/
 

shall I just leave this here and ask if the return on investment between Hamilton, still not signed for 2021, and Russell is worth £47,800,000 to Merc (less the difference taken to settle with Williams ).

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Jonboy

[57xx]

2 hours ago, friscopete said:

Merc may well be judging Russells reaction to a cock up

 

They been there, done that yesterday. And the result was a mightily impressed engineer and team principle. In the post race interviews Toto basically said they'll definitely be signing him at some point in the future (not necessarily replacing Bottas next year). It was probably of more benefit for GR for the cockup to have happened. This way he showed that he has both race path and skills to fight back, over take etc when the cards are stacked against him. He didn't just give up and pout.

[57xx]

2 hours ago, Crisis Rail said:

maybe the GOAT is the machinery?

 

Best driver in the best car? Like Vettel in the Red Bull, Shumi in the Ferrari, Prost in the McLaren and Williams, Senna in the McLaren etc etc etc. The best drivers will always go for the best machinery, they'd be stupid not to.

[Crisis Rail]

5 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 

Best driver in the best car? Like Vettel in the Red Bull, Shumi in the Ferrari, Prost in the McLaren and Williams, Senna in the McLaren etc etc etc. The best drivers will always go for the best machinery, they'd be stupid not to.

 

Russell not exactly a F1 "name" (had to Wiki him) topped practice (I believe) twice - missed on pole by a Gnats must be the car  - piece of p*ss for Mr H.

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, Jonboy said:

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/50286/formula-1-driver-salaries-2020-what-lewis-hamilton-and-sebastian-vettel-get-paid/
 

shall I just leave this here and ask if the return on investment between Hamilton, still not signed for 2021, and Russell is worth £47,800,000 to Merc (less the difference taken to settle with Williams  

 

Yes. They are paying for experience.  

[daltonparva]

28 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

 

Russell not exactly a F1 "name" (had to Wiki him) topped practice (I believe) twice - missed on pole by a Gnats must be the car  - piece of p*ss for Mr H.

So you haven't heard of Mr Russell, and because he did well it must be the car that's responsible for Mr Hamilton's success. I bow to your knowledge and clarity of thinking, I now realize I have been wrong all along for the last 13 odd years whilst I have been watching him fluke it to all those records, the jammy lucky sod.

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, Jonboy said:

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/50286/formula-1-driver-salaries-2020-what-lewis-hamilton-and-sebastian-vettel-get-paid/
 

shall I just leave this here and ask if the return on investment between Hamilton, still not signed for 2021, and Russell is worth £47,800,000 to Merc (less the difference taken to settle with Williams ).

 

It’s their money paying for it and that’s financed by those wanting their big shiny cars buying into the brand and lifestyle.
Do you feel sorry for them because they are paying Lewis?  

[Jonboy]

14 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

Yes. They are paying for experience.  

my bad, I thought they (as in the brand, not necessarily the team) were paying for marketing, and they seem to have had plenty of attention this weekend.....

[PhilJ W]

What this race has shown is that there is plenty of driving talent out there but in Hamilton's shadow. 

[EddieB]

17 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

What this race has shown is that there is plenty of driving talent out there but in Hamilton's shadow. 

... and then there’s also Vettel and, next year, señor Alonso.

[Crisis Rail]

28 minutes ago, daltonparva said:

So you haven't heard of Mr Russell, and because he did well it must be the car that's responsible for Mr Hamilton's success. I bow to your knowledge and clarity of thinking, I now realize I have been wrong all along for the last 13 odd years whilst I have been watching him fluke it to all those records, the jammy lucky sod.

 

Switched off years ago like a lot of others. Obviously got talent but seems odd that he did so well though in an unfamiliar machine.

[Hobby]

I don't think it's that odd. He's had two seasons experience so should be able to step up if he's good enough. What it's proved is that Max and Charles won't have it all their own way when he gets a top car which looks inevitable now.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Hobby

[LNERandBR]

The hardest thing for young drivers is proving they have what it takes to be in a top car. Sunday was an excellent opportunity for Russell to do that and I do think he achieved that objective.

 

You have to remember, he's dragging his Williams into Q2. No other Driver has done that for years so he's slowly but surely been showing his potential. If the Williams was a machine worthy of regular Q2 appearances then both Drivers in that team would be doing it. Put Latifi in a Mercedes and I bet you wouldn't get the same performance.

 

[PaulRhB]

19 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

 

Switched off years ago like a lot of others. Obviously got talent but seems odd that he did so well though in an unfamiliar machine.

Not totally unfamiliar, he’s tested in older Merc’s and drives a current regs car. Apart from where the buttons are,  and as they showed in practice they re-mapped some for him, and actual handling characteristics which he had two days to practice to learn? They aren’t that different. 

[daltonparva]

When Russell, Albon and Norris all hit F1 at the same time, the general consensus was Russell was supposedly top talent but for some reason drew short straw as regards team offers.