lyneux Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Looking at the new releases, R30229 looks to be a 7 car set including the circa 1986 experimental coach but without the black window surrounds. These detail differences are were about 6 years apart weren't they? So basically 'never happened'. Guy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium E100 Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2022 3 hours ago, lyneux said: Looking at the new releases, R30229 looks to be a 7 car set including the circa 1986 experimental coach but without the black window surrounds. These detail differences are were about 6 years apart weren't they? So basically 'never happened'. Guy Yes, that was my understanding too. I'll be intrigued as to what they intend to show as the cantrail colour on that! I'd hope they might change it to an intermediate coach. Credit where credit is due they are producing another run and I'm thankful for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 4 hours ago, 50149 said: I would suspect that it’s an add on to new 5 car pack R30104 which is advertised as 370003/37004 with black window surroundings. https://uk.Hornby.com/products/br-class-370-advanced-passenger-train-sets-370-003-and-370-004-5-car-pack-era-7-r30104 4 hours ago, WestRail642fan said: NDM #49002 would actually go with 370002, given the #02 at the end of its coach number I'm pretty sure that the NDMs pretty much from day one ended up interchangeable within the sets so I don't think it's a massive issue how anyone deploys them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrooge Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Just received my update card email from Hornby for the 5 car set. Keep your fingers crossed. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanN91 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Well it just looks like other than the points mentioned here. Sets 370 001 and 370 002 are now the plain yellow fronts with the addition of the City of Derby NDM. and sets 370 003 and 370 004 are now the black window surrounds final APT-P logo. Hornby have certainly listened! I know it was suggested by some that in for 2020 Hornby's Centenary that the two APT-P packs would be a one-off. But I didn't think Hornby would invest tens of thousands of £s on new APT-P toolings. We may possible see the final sets in the future with the red stripe APT-P logo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted January 10, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2022 15 minutes ago, 50149 said: Just as a question - I can’t find any solid picture reference of 370004 (48104) with black front. It seems to have run around very late in its career with full yellow front, but presume it must have received black front at some point? Pretty sure this pic by Tony Woof is 004 Link to Flickr 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted January 10, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, 50149 said: Thanks for that, I think that’s one of the images I seen but not 100% clear enough to make out the number. There seem to be very few pictures of 370004 late on in the APTs career. Yes that’s the only one I know of, when I blew it up I can’t see that any of the other numbers fit that shape so I’m 95% happy that’s 004 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) There are several pics on Flickr of 004 in later years.... search is your friend! Seems to have black surrounds from (at least) 84 onwards. Guy Edited January 10, 2022 by lyneux Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewSiding Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 5 car set now in stock at Hornby https://uk.Hornby.com/products/br-class-370-advanced-passenger-train-sets-370-003-and-370-004-5-car-pack-era-7-r3873 So this means they made extra and there was no need to pre-order in case they ran out? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wairoa Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Scrooge said: Just received my update card email from Hornby for the 5 car set. Keep your fingers crossed. Same here! E-mail saying it has arrived at the warehouse and will soon be prepared for dispatch! Looks like Hornby are honouring the earlier pre-order prices too which is great. Edited January 10, 2022 by wairoa 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted January 10, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2022 20 minutes ago, NewSiding said: So this means they made extra and there was no need to pre-order in case they ran out? Hornby told shops with the W1 that they have a certain amount of stock ‘ring fenced’ for their own shop. You can wait and hope it doesn’t sell out in the first day Fortunately with another batch announced for October you’d have a second chance anyway but that’s not always been the case. It’s a risk you take, unfortunately with pre orders anywhere but Hornby too. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterCity80s Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 5 hours ago, RyanN91 said: Well it just looks like other than the points mentioned here. Sets 370 001 and 370 002 are now the plain yellow fronts with the addition of the City of Derby NDM. and sets 370 003 and 370 004 are now the black window surrounds final APT-P logo. Hornby have certainly listened! I know it was suggested by some that in for 2020 Hornby's Centenary that the two APT-P packs would be a one-off. But I didn't think Hornby would invest tens of thousands of £s on new APT-P toolings. We may possible see the final sets in the future with the red stripe APT-P logo. Maybe I'm being a bit dim here but doesn't this mean that if you bought the original yellow fronted 5 car set and the new yellow fronted 7 car set, you'd end up with two differently numbered sets (370 003/004 and now 370 001/002) but two City of Derby NDMs? Wouldn't it have made more sense to have un-named NDMs in the new yellow fronted 7 car set and the named City of Derby NDM in the new black fronted 5 car set? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, 50149 said: I did and hence the question… but if you have a good link that’d be very much appreciate Ok, here are a couple I found from 1984 by sticking in the date filter and searching for 370004: However, I think it's worth realising that later on the sets were pretty mixed up. For example, Hugh Searle (of Mendip stone fame) has a very good album of APT shots on Flickr here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/35476094@N04/albums/72157632832235566 In this album there are individual shots from 1985 comprising stock from several sets in the photos from 18th September which seem to show a working car by car at Crewe: 370001: 48101 DTS 370003: 48103 DTS 370006: 48601 TBF 370004: 48204 TS (modified bogies) 370004: 48404 Buffet 370002: 49002 NDM 370005: 49005 NDM So that's pretty much all the sets represented in one working except 007 which was only a spare DTS and TBF anyway... EDIT: A couple of things of note in these photos: 1) 49005 has some kind of inspection hatch with window fitted, presumably to study the pantograph at speed? 2) 48601 appears to be declassified (no yellow stripe). Guy Edited January 10, 2022 by lyneux 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanN91 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, InterCity80s said: Maybe I'm being a bit dim here but doesn't this mean that if you bought the original yellow fronted 5 car set and the new yellow fronted 7 car set, you'd end up with two differently numbered sets (370 003/004 and now 370 001/002) but two City of Derby NDMs? Wouldn't it have made more sense to have un-named NDMs in the new yellow fronted 7 car set and the named City of Derby NDM in the new black fronted 5 car set? Yes you'd end with two City of Derby NDMs. I think it does especially if someone wanted the yellow fronts last time but now they want the APT-P final logo they'd end up with the same train but in a different livery although with a different NDMS. I'm surprised to see more APT-Ps so soon! I think they must have reissued them (due to the increase in demand) perhaps they had emails along the lines of "why can't we have sets 370 001 370 002 with plain yellow fronts?" and vice versa for sets 370 003 370 004 and instead changed the liveries to the other sets. I forgot to add (But I didn't think Hornby would invest tens of thousands of £s on the new APT-P toolings for just two runs of two different full trains) I guess they can't please everyone. Edited January 10, 2022 by RyanN91 Missed info Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRail642fan Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 You know, im really tempted to pre-order the 5 car pack that has the black window surrounds on the cab as i can run it along side the 7 car pack i pre-ordered Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Tilt Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 10 hours ago, lyneux said: EDIT: A couple of things of note in these photos: 1) 49005 has some kind of inspection hatch with window fitted, presumably to study the pantograph at speed? 2) 48601 appears to be declassified (no yellow stripe). Another thing in the top pic is that the 3rd Trailer Car and the Power Car are running tilt passive for some reason. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Markwj Posted January 11, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 11, 2022 Its good news that Hornby have commissioned a second run of the APT it shows it has sold and I was considering a second set but then I thought I can't recall seeing a picture of 2 sets side by side (in traffic not parked up) and a quick google search hasn't helped. Did BR run more than 1 set at once? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) There are shots in this gallery showing two sets at Preston in 1984: https://flickr.com/photos/41338368@N06/ We were discussing this on another group last night. Looks like neither is a full 14 car set but ~10 car (i.e. half set with minimal set at the other end). EDIT: Kit, I think you might need to explain to us how you can tell this to be the case and what it means... cheers! Guy Edited January 11, 2022 by lyneux 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted January 11, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2022 4 hours ago, Mr_Tilt said: Another thing in the top pic is that the 3rd Trailer Car and the Power Car are running tilt passive for some reason. Well, that’s your fault 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium E100 Posted January 11, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2022 5 hours ago, Mr_Tilt said: Another thing in the top pic is that the 3rd Trailer Car and the Power Car are running tilt passive for some reason. Is that the APT-U coach? Just going off the position of the trailer brake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 28 minutes ago, E100 said: Is that the APT-U coach? Just going off the position of the trailer brake. Yes. Assume that the lack of tilt is what Kit is referring to as ‘tilt passive’. Presumably part of the testing/commissioning. Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted January 11, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2022 43 minutes ago, lyneux said: Presumably part of the testing/commissioning. Guy Or the “limp home” mode? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Markwj Posted January 11, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 11, 2022 Just now, boxbrownie said: Or the “limp home” mode? I have one of those and a dissatisfied partner!!! Sorry too much info!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted January 11, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) sorry Hornby, my 1980’s set is being restored. Will get on with chopping up spares to make more intermediate coaches this year Edited March 31, 2022 by RedgateModels 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted January 11, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 11, 2022 Ok so taking the dimensions from my NDM I ordered a Zimo 630R as it seemed to fit. Well it doesn’t fit this way up! Fortunately it just does with fractions of a mm to spare the other way up. I added some tape and a small square of foam tape to the recess on the decoder sleeve itself to get more contact area. It is incredibly tight. But it does still tilt! You do need to leave a mm to clear the spigot for the screw or it will catch on that. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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