HS2

[62613]

13 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Its actually paid for by the taxpayer, your just paying an admin fee.

That's not the point, is it? Without the free travel, I would either have had to drive, or not gone at all (given the result of the first match, I wish I hadn't!😬). My taxes pay for a lot of things, some of which I don't use, but which make life in general liveable, e.g. education, or social services, so I'll stick with it, thank you

[woodenhead]

Did the Government buy up all the homes and businesses along the route north of Handsacre?

 

Or are those people now stuck, they don't know if they will be forced out and cannot sell because who would buy a property that could again become a target for possession.

[adb968008]

13 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Exactly so.  I have two simple question about ULEZ - where will the money it raises be spent

 

 

on buses, allegedly.  This has been one of the sticking points in my area, as we have no tram, tube, or tfl rail, despite being in the zone of London that means things like kids free fares dont apply until a few stations down the line.

However our only benefit if being in London was the bus, but recently buses were reduced.

The local council therefore refused to allow cameras in some areas. (But agreed the signage).

That said most of the cameras have been vandalised at least once by cutting the cables.

There was also a recent upswell in suggesting our borough considering to suggest leaving Greater London due to the lack of public transport and general London services provided, despite being a net higher wealth area paying in.

 

The kick back from govt has been £14mn to build a siding at a station that no one uses, Belmont, its one of the least used stations in London. The opinion being its actually a veiled threat to closing the rest of the Epsom downs line (as Belmont is right on the GL border and so a risk to being sucked into TFL).

 

The problem for our area is a Liberal council, with a Tory MP in a Labour London.. sadly I think the election will spread scenarios like this across much of London and make it ungovernable.

 

13 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

Even usually almost sane columnists seem to want it to cease so presumably they are in favour of mass demolition of houses alongside the WCML in order for the far more expensive alternative to happen instead?

 

No just embarassing the government, doesnt matter what the underlying reason… too many journalists, too small revenue they will do anything for a buck.

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by adb968008

[black and decker boy]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

 

Its a city road tax, on top of your road tax.

 

Of course it’s a tax.
 

Successive funding settlements from Central Government to local governments have been cuts. Local government costs don’t go down no matter how many staff they get rid of. They need to plug the funding gaps. Council tax is effectively capped so they target any source they are legally allowed to.

 

in my industry (construction) that sees us paying for ever more permits & licenses as they raise revenue.

 

domestically, we now pay for garden waste bins (the only type currently not mandated to be included in your council tax). Council cad parks all charge and prices are going up even though they don’t get maintained and are now cashless so less staff needed.

 

We’ve all got to cover the £bns wasted on fake furlough claims, substandard PPE etc and various tax cuts for upper end earners so should expect local ‘taxes’ to grow and not get cancelled.

Edited September 28, 2023 by black and decker boy

[adb968008]

9 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

Of course it’s a tax.
 

Successive funding settlements from Central Government to local governments have been cuts. Local government costs don’t go down no matter how many staff they get rid of. They need to plug the funding gaps. Council tax is effectively capped so they target any source they are legally allowed to.

 

in my industry (construction) that sees us paying for ever more permits & licenses as they raise revenue.

 

domestically, we now pay for garden waste bins (the only type currently not mandated to be included in your council tax). Council cad parks all charge and prices are going up even though they don’t get maintained and are now cashless so less staff needed.

 

We’ve all got to cover the £bns wasted on fake furlough claims, substandard PPE etc and various tax cuts for upper end earners so should expect local ‘taxes’ to grow and not get cancelled.

They should consider investing in their high street and creating viable businesses,that make profit, offer services people want, make jobs and hence tax revenues as well as profit.

 

Tax just sucks out of the system without putting anything back.

 

One hopes the dog and pony show over Hs2 is exactly that at a national level, but you just know at somepoint it will be sold off, probably at a loss to get a quick buck.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by adb968008

[adb968008]

51 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Did the Government buy up all the homes and businesses along the route north of Handsacre?

 

Or are those people now stuck, they don't know if they will be forced out and cannot sell because who would buy a property that could again become a target for possession.

Good oppourtunity for the government as landowner to earn rental income during the dithering decades ?

[The Stationmaster]

27 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

Of course it’s a tax.
 

Successive funding settlements from Central Government to local governments have been cuts. Local government costs don’t go down no matter how many staff they get rid of. They need to plug the funding gaps. Council tax is effectively capped so they target any source they are legally allowed to.

 

in my industry (construction) that sees us paying for ever more permits & licenses as they raise revenue.

 

domestically, we now pay for garden waste bins (the only type currently not mandated to be included in your council tax). Council cad parks all charge and prices are going up even though they don’t get maintained and are now cashless so less staff needed.

 

We’ve all got to cover the £bns wasted on fake furlough claims, substandard PPE etc and various tax cuts for upper end earners so should expect local ‘taxes’ to grow and not get cancelled.

Our two council car parks have always required us to pay to use them - its's just that the price has gone up, and up, over the years.  But the revenue goes to the District Council (to waste on bloated salaries) not to the town - definitely wrong.   Similarly we have always paid - £35 p.a. - for our garden waste bins.

 

If just waiting for Khan or his minions to try to start charging the uter counties for his Liz Rail trams.  If that happens there will be a big NO!  Sooner d withour t the things even tho we lose some connection (going away from London, they don't connect in the opposite direction and are too slow anyway.  The only thing they''ll do is offer cheaper connectivity to LHR (change to a 'bus at west Drayton) or - getting back on subject - offer a connection to HS2 at Old Oak which will still take longer than going via XC train from Reading.

[black and decker boy]

31 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

They should consider investing in their high street and creating viable businesses,that make profit, offer services people want, make jobs and hence tax revenues as well as profit.

 

Tax just sucks out of the system without putting anything back.

 

One hopes the dog and pony show over Hs2 is exactly that at a national level, but you just know at somepoint it will be sold off, probably at a loss to get a quick buck.

 

 

Many are doing but remember that business rates are set centrally and are a part of the loss of our independent shops (just as out of town retail parks and internet shopping are too).

 

Social care is locally funded and is a growing black hole that draws funds away from roads, libraries etc. Very little in local government is ring fenced and councils cannot make a loss so everything gets squeezed.

[lmsforever]

This morning went to Wendover as usual , we had to divert from normal   route due to the line cutting through entrance road to village  . On the way we passed under the new brige for haul road outside Stoke Manderville , impressive and a large development a look to the left showed good progress on trackbed with visible work being carried out, When arrive at the end the bypass you have driven a desert of building works .  You wonder why so much land is being taken during the construction   at this point there seems to be at least three acres taken overand looks just like a desert .Any answers will be welcomed.

[woodenhead]

18 minutes ago, lmsforever said:

This morning went to Wendover as usual , we had to divert from normal   route due to the line cutting through entrance road to village  . On the way we passed under the new brige for haul road outside Stoke Manderville , impressive and a large development a look to the left showed good progress on trackbed with visible work being carried out, When arrive at the end the bypass you have driven a desert of building works .  You wonder why so much land is being taken during the construction   at this point there seems to be at least three acres taken overand looks just like a desert .Any answers will be welcomed.

They are taking the top soil to sell abroad, there's nothing else left to sell I don't think.

Edited September 28, 2023 by woodenhead

[Phil Parker]

It looks like this thread has headed well into the realms of politics with the ULEZ stuff. Is it time to lock it because no one wants to talk about HS2 any more?

[woodenhead]

Just now, Phil Parker said:

It looks like this thread has headed well into the realms of politics with the ULEZ stuff. Is it time to lock it because no one wants to talk about HS2 any more?

I think it's rather difficult to talk about HS2 presently without the politics coming into it - on the macro scale it is a typical governmental (small g) farce but the scale of the potential impact of any further cuts now will haunt the UK for decades

[Phil Parker]

12 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

I think it's rather difficult to talk about HS2 presently without the politics coming into it - on the macro scale it is a typical governmental (small g) farce but the scale of the potential impact of any further cuts now will haunt the UK for decades

 

ULEZ isn't HS2.

 

More to the point, there is a reason we have a "no-politics" rule on RMweb - it becomes a nightmare as all the sides end up screaming at each other.

[frobisher]

17 hours ago, Legend said:

I suppose we could send him further north but what has Iceland done to upset  us ?

 

Codwar :)

[woodenhead]

1 minute ago, Phil Parker said:

 

ULEZ isn't HS2.

 

More to the point, there is a reason we have a "no-politics" rule on RMweb - it becomes a nightmare as all the sides end up screaming at each other.

I accept ULEZ is outside of the HS2 debates

[jjb1970]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I think your referring to Shimbashi, but thats no different to say Berlins main station, or Amsterdams for that matter..it just has two gauges..

wider gauge on the upper section, narrower gauge lower section.
 

 

 

but if you goto Shinagawa station… its like New St on Steroids… 22 through platforms, thats one very confusing station if your not local.

 

And we think we have cool trains…

 

 

 

 

kato make this model of the Hayabusa as catalog 3-516 in HO… ive been looking for one of these for some time, if anyone has one, outside of Japan they dont want, please tap me up. The nose on this thing btw was about the length a class 20 !

 

i’d like the cobra looking Bullet train (right) on HS2 myself….

 

 

one of the cool thing about Tokyo stations, is they each have a theme tune, played before announcements.

The idea being passengers can nap onboard the train, and if they hear their tune, they know its time to get off, if not then theres no need to open your eyes.

 

 

I was thinking of Tokyo for the platforms, the main station near the Imperial Palace and Ginza. It's a huge station and a rabbit warren but the two Shinkansen areas are quite small. I say two because in effect the JR W & C Tokaido and JR E Joetsu and Tohoku platforms exist as separate terminals within Tokyo Station. The JR East platforms handle several lines and services with 4 platforms and turnaround times which most railways would dismiss as ridiculous (including turning all seats to face direction of travel). Part of that is down to passengers, Japanese passengers consider it basic courtesy to leave a clean train and dispose of their trash properly. 

 

As well as Shinagawa on the Tokaido, Ueno on the JR East line is very close to Tokyo. Moving further out, Shin-Yokohama (Tokaido) and Omiya on the JR E line are not far from Tokyo and as you go further out some of the station spacing is quite short given HS2 has resisted intermediate stations.

 

On the Kato E5, prices seem quite high on EBay now, a while ago Japanese dealers had some nice discounts on new stock. Unless you see a bargain I would wait for the next run, it's an excellent model. I have the Kato N model and that is superb and not expensive for any N enthusiasts thinking about trying Japanese trains. Although my favourites are the Series 100, 300 and E4 trains.

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

I think it's rather difficult to talk about HS2 presently without the politics coming into it - on the macro scale it is a typical governmental (small g) farce but the scale of the potential impact of any further cuts now will haunt the UK for decades

 

If our national politicians start messing round with (and altering / cancelling / pausing) bits of the scheme, dropping hints in the media that they might do this or might do that I would say its pretty much impossible not to stray into politics!

 

The next general election can't come soon enough!

Edited September 28, 2023 by phil-b259

[Phil Parker]

1 minute ago, phil-b259 said:

 

If our national politicians start messing round with (and altering / cancelling / pausing) bits of the scheme, dropping hints in the media that they might do this or might do that I would say its pretty much impossible not to stray into politics!

 

The next general election can't come soon enough!

 

Which is why we adopt a light touch to this topic. Just sometimes it needs a little steer away from more general stuff.

[APOLLO]

3 hours ago, lmsforever said:

This morning went to Wendover as usual , we had to divert from normal   route due to the line cutting through entrance road to village  . On the way we passed under the new brige for haul road outside Stoke Manderville , impressive and a large development a look to the left showed good progress on trackbed with visible work being carried out, When arrive at the end the bypass you have driven a desert of building works .  You wonder why so much land is being taken during the construction   at this point there seems to be at least three acres taken overand looks just like a desert .Any answers will be welcomed.

 

This is how they built the Great Central railway London extension. Just used the land that was required. Steam shovels and sweat.

 

 

Brit15

[black and decker boy]

4 hours ago, lmsforever said:

This morning went to Wendover as usual , we had to divert from normal   route due to the line cutting through entrance road to village  . On the way we passed under the new brige for haul road outside Stoke Manderville , impressive and a large development a look to the left showed good progress on trackbed with visible work being carried out, When arrive at the end the bypass you have driven a desert of building works .  You wonder why so much land is being taken during the construction   at this point there seems to be at least three acres taken overand looks just like a desert .Any answers will be welcomed.

Without seeing the exact location and comparing to the HS2 published plans I can’t answer definitively.

 

however, land outside of the permanent alignment can and usually is needed and is taken on license from the landowner - in other words rented - and restored & returned to the landowner at the end of construction.

 

Reasons can be:

temporary road diversions

temporary utility diversions

permanent utility diversions or new apparatus

temporary haul routes

temporary office / welfare

material handling / storage 

plant and equipment compounds 

land for drainage including new ponds

land for new ecology - trees etc

[adb968008]

33 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

This is how they built the Great Central railway London extension. Just used the land that was required. Steam shovels and sweat.

 

 

Brit15

They were known to be quite tight fisted, and cash strapped.

 

MSLR.. monsey sunk and lost railway

GCR.. Gone Completely

Edited September 28, 2023 by adb968008

[phil-b259]

34 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

This is how they built the Great Central railway London extension. Just used the land that was required. 

 

 

 

Indeed, but as we now know steep cuttings / embankments a a recipe for bank slips / failures during heavy / prolonged rain events - which thanks to climate change are increasing with a arming frequency.

 

Therefore engineers these days (be they building roads or railways will always look to have very gentle slopes - thats way on the reinstated borders railway lots of the cuttings / embankments were subjected to works like the installation of Gibon baskets filled with stone and the slopes being re profiled for example.

 

Of course the other advantage of gentle slopes is that they can then be returned to landowners use for agricultural use thus mitigating the extra width originally taken during construction.

 

[rockershovel]

As a classic example of how difficult it has become to believe anything said on any topic in the media, today's story about the "Sycamore Gap"

 

BBC News information us that "it is thought to be an act of deliberate vandalism". Really? There is any credible reason to think someone just happened to be in this remote spot, equipped to fell a very large, mature tree and just happened to do so without really meaning to?

 

As a sort of cherry on top, "a 16 year old boy is helping police with their enquiries"....

[rockershovel]

55 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Indeed, but as we now know steep cuttings / embankments a a recipe for bank slips / failures during heavy / prolonged rain events - which thanks to climate change are increasing with a arming frequency.

 

Therefore engineers these days (be they building roads or railways will always look to have very gentle slopes - thats way on the reinstated borders railway lots of the cuttings / embankments were subjected to works like the installation of Gibon baskets filled with stone and the slopes being re profiled for example.

 

Of course the other advantage of gentle slopes is that they can then be returned to landowners use for agricultural use thus mitigating the extra width originally taken during construction.

 

Do they do that? Does it not have the effect of funnelling increased  rainwater onto the formation? 

 

Is there not some sort of restriction on creating slopes leading towards the right of way?

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

It was said that the 2 year "pause" to building Euston and the Euston tunnels (assuming they continue to build them after that 2 year delay) was likely to increase costs by something  in excess of another £300m.

 

In other words, it wasn't saving anything, even in the short term. The pause has increased the cost.

 

I'm also puzzled how cancelling phases, that won't be built for another 10 years, will solve the immediate financial problems?

It won't even save money in the future, because as already mentioned, it'll cost a lot more to do it later, than at today's prices.

 

.

 

.

 

I believe that the mess at Euston is actually the reason why the MPA have said the project is unachievable rather than any other part of the project. That mess is purely down to government chopping and changing, including I believe throwing £100m of design work in the bin when they abandoned the 2 phase option for a single phase option (which i vaguely recall was more expensive). Hopefully someone fished out the binned design and put it in a drawer for later.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Guest
Removed politics