Panic buying

[SamThomas]

5 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

On Thursday whilst on the M1 I was flashed by a Royal Mail HGV driver whilst traveling at 50 mph in a section where the lights were on restricting the speed to 50 mph,  two car lengths behind the car in front.  What space would he gain ?

I'm not condoning the HGV driver but what many people do not understand is that most light vehicle speedometers tend to over read so you were probably doing 45/46 mph.

HGV speedometers (excepting a minirity of dodgy firms who have sets of "calibration" wheels/tyres & those from certain EU countries which I won't name in case the snowflakes get upset) are calibrated which is why people get upset when they are doing an indicated 50 mph and get overtaken by an HGV doing an actual 50 mph.

[SamThomas]

4 hours ago, melmerby said:

I think you should look more deeply at the Met's previous failings, then you wouldn't call it "one bad apple"

If I was doing Priti Patel's job I would be looking at a complete overhaul of the Met, rather in the same way the the RUC was replaced by the PSNI

IMHO In that culling should be Commander Cressida Dick who has overseen loads of failures and botch ups from when she was lower in the ranks.

 

Remember the Brazilian Electrician Jean Charles de Menezes and the Met's behaviour?

Yes, it would seem like incompetence is often rewarded by promotion.

Said person should have been reduced to walking the beat,.

[SamThomas]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

OK then maybe they just use the PAYE records……however they are doing it they seem to be doing it, not a mass mail shot but targeted.

Nope PAYE records only show who is/was working, not what they were/are doing.

Anyway, many HGV drivers were working under limited companies until IR35 put a stop to that (also many EU drivers went home when IR35 kicked in - nothing to do with Brexit).

[alastairq]

9 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

What database? Where is it? If there's a government database of tachograph data why do you need to retain your data to show enforcement officers?

 Even going back to the old paper tacho days, discs had to be retained for a certain [longish] period of time. They could be inspected on demand by the VOSA as-was. [DVSA now]

Employers have to retain  all drivers records too [nowadays on computers] for potential inspection at a later date.

The same also goes for vehicle defect cards..... which must have a fitter's response to  a reported defect. These are also retained for inspection.

Vehicle computers can also  be downloaded months & months behind.....

Enforcement Officers may need to see a driver's work records out in the field. Hence why the records , in whatever form, need to be 'produced'.

In the old days before power steering, the driver had their hand written log book...

[SamThomas]

15 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

What database? Where is it? If there's a government database of tachograph data why do you need to retain your data to show enforcement officers?

Not too sure where it is (do we actually know wher any database is ?) but DVSA certainly have access so they can double check you data.

 

Anyway, does it really matter if they do or not ?

[boxbrownie]

16 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

Nope PAYE records only show who is/was working, not what they were/are doing.

 

Yes I know that bit, but aligning PAYE information with the DVLC and the licence holders at least would give them a more focused group.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

Not too sure where it is (do we actually know wher any database is ?) but DVSA certainly have access so they can double check you data.

 

Anyway, does it really matter if they do or not ?

 

Very much so if they are miss-appropriating data to spam mail shots. Hence my comment about GDPR earlier. Data can only be retained and used for specific purposes. 

[Andy Hayter]

5 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

I believe this can be said of most CEO's of most companies, not to say public servants who seem to be Teflon coated. She will go, incompetent public servants sadly stay on until paid off.

 

Back to the topic, the real villains of this situation are the companies who for far too long have let this situation build up, and the press/media for whipping up the panic, where none existed

 

Sorry John to bring you to book on this.  Companies have been warning a completely deaf government for many many months.  They have not let the situation build up, the government through inaction has allowed it. 

 

Please also note: this is not just petrol companies it relates to your local supermarket as well.  If nothing happens then expect them to be the next to express the problems through lack of stock.

 

They (collectively) have asked for a speed up in testing of those drivers wanting an HGV  licence.  Response - nothing happened.

They have asked for a relaxation on using EU drivers.  Response - no - well not until after the brown and smelly had hit the fan.    And then 5000 drivers until 24/12 - quickly changed to 28/2 after the single finger responses from  Europe.

 

The media reported the facts.  Petrol stations without fuel (not many but for those in the know the start of an increasing problem) and BP reporting their average stocks at the pumps down 33%.  The public were told by the media not to panic.  There is plenty of petrol.  They panicked but in fairness, their reaction based on little fact and much fear was the same as mine would have been based on years in logistics and being able to read the runes.

 

Yes there is lots of fuel but not where it is needed at the pumps.

 

So those who think this is all nonsense, think on.  the next time your expected delivery of a new xxx from Hel-dap-bach-by is delayed.  No complaints.  There is plenty of stock - in China.

 

 

 

The fact that so many stations (not just BP) stocked out so quickly 

1.  Shows stocks were generally down at the forecourt

2.  The total vulnerability of the UK fuel supply from refinery to point of sale

3.  In all probability there genuinely was a severe driver shortage across the board.  

[Guest]

Well that's my energy prices going for a bit of a hike.

[SamThomas]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

Yes I know that bit, but aligning PAYE information with the DVLC and the licence holders at least would give them a more focused group.

Still would not encompass the self employed & those working (until IR35 kicked in) under limited companies.

[SamThomas]

1 hour ago, 30801 said:

 

Very much so if they are miss-appropriating data to spam mail shots. Hence my comment about GDPR earlier. Data can only be retained and used for specific purposes. 

HMG probably do what they want with data, as & how they see fit.

[SamThomas]

4 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

They (collectively) have asked for a speed up in testing of those drivers wanting an HGV  licence.  Response - nothing happened.

They have asked for a relaxation on using EU drivers.  Response - no - well not until after the brown and smelly had hit the fan.    And then 5000 drivers until 24/12 - quickly changed to 28/2 after the single finger responses from  Europe.

 

Why should HMG respond ?

The logistics industry took advantage of using Eastern European Drivers to keep wages down - nown they are reapinbg hat they sowed.

The only long term solution is to make HGV driving more attractive is to make the job more attracctive.

Stopgap measures such as using the Army, recruiting EU drivers & such will simply prolong the situation.

[Denbridge]

12 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

Sorry John to bring you to book on this.  Companies have been warning a completely deaf government for many many months.  They have not let the situation build up, the government through inaction has allowed it. 

 

Please also note: this is not just petrol companies it relates to your local supermarket as well.  If nothing happens then expect them to be the next to express the problems through lack of stock.

 

They (collectively) have asked for a speed up in testing of those drivers wanting an HGV  licence.  Response - nothing happened.

They have asked for a relaxation on using EU drivers.  Response - no - well not until after the brown and smelly had hit the fan.    And then 5000 drivers until 24/12 - quickly changed to 28/2 after the single finger responses from  Europe.

 

The media reported the facts.  Petrol stations without fuel (not many but for those in the know the start of an increasing problem) and BP reporting their average stocks at the pumps down 33%.  The public were told by the media not to panic.  There is plenty of petrol.  They panicked but in fairness, their reaction based on little fact and much fear was the same as mine would have been based on years in logistics and being able to read the runes.

 

Yes there is lots of fuel but not where it is needed at the pumps.

 

So those who think this is all nonsense, think on.  the next time your expected delivery of a new xxx from Hel-dap-bach-by is delayed.  No complaints.  There is plenty of stock - in China.

 

 

 

The fact that so many stations (not just BP) stocked out so quickly 

1.  Shows stocks were generally down at the forecourt

2.  The total vulnerability of the UK fuel supply from refinery to point of sale

3.  In all probability there genuinely was a severe driver shortage across the board.  

I would hardly call the media's reporting that of facts. The True fact was that FIVE petrol stations, from a UK total of 8,380 were without fuel for a very brief period. The media took this non event and turned it into a crisis, instigating nationwide panic. 

Had this not happened, the nation would have carried on as normal. We wouldn't have queues at the pumps and stations wouldn't be running out of fuel. We would be none the wiser and there wouldn't be the current ridiculous scenario we are now seeing.

Our mainstream media is a disgrace and should be held accountable.

[John M Upton]

One thing that I can't fathom out though is if we have a shortage of HGV drivers, container ships stuck outside ports unable to load and supposedly major shortfalls of essential supplies across the board, how come lorry loads of Halloween and Christmas tat have still managed to make it into the shops?

 

Bit of a massive fail in the prioritising department there....

[AY Mod]

12 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

how come lorry loads of Halloween and Christmas tat have still managed to make it into the shops?

 

Bit of a massive fail in the prioritising department there....

 

That was landing weeks and months ago, not last week. The same with a iot of Christmas decorative stuff. However, if some gift and toy stuff hasn't landed yet it may well miss the Christmas season. 

 

Nothing to do with prioritises. 

[cctransuk]

16 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

One thing that I can't fathom out though is if we have a shortage of HGV drivers, container ships stuck outside ports unable to load and supposedly major shortfalls of essential supplies across the board, how come lorry loads of Halloween and Christmas tat have still managed to make it into the shops?

 

Bit of a massive fail in the prioritising department there....

 

Ah - but where lies the greatest profit - groceries or seasonal 'tat'?

 

....that's the prioritising department working as intended!

 

CJI.

[Andy Hayter]

26 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

I would hardly call the media's reporting that of facts. The True fact was that FIVE petrol stations, from a UK total of 8,380 were without fuel for a very brief period. The media took this non event and turned it into a crisis, instigating nationwide panic. 

Had this not happened, the nation would have carried on as normal. We wouldn't have queues at the pumps and stations wouldn't be running out of fuel. We would be none the wiser and there wouldn't be the current ridiculous scenario we are now seeing.

Our mainstream media is a disgrace and should be held accountable.

 

 

But the media also had something that we at the time did not.  The leak that BP's statement that forecourt stocks were down 33% on the normal level.  I understand that many outside of the logistics fraternity will not understand the significance of that but they have people that do - as do I.  It is not trivial.  If they had not reported then, the probability is that in a few weeks they would have been reporting about 100 stations about of at least one fuel type.  

 

Please feel free to blame it on the media.  Blame it on the sheep who rushed to a filling station.  Blame it on whom se ever you want.  This is a problem that has been drifting towards the population and it was only a question of when it became an issue.

 

Of course we could have hoped for a Pravda like media (a joke in itself - Pravda means truth in Russian) that suppressed the bad news and pretended it never happened even in the presence of queues at the pumps.   

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

The media reported the facts.  Petrol stations without fuel (not many but for those in the know the start of an increasing problem) and BP reporting their average stocks at the pumps down 33%.  The public were told by the media not to panic.  There is plenty of petrol.  They panicked but in fairness, their reaction based on little fact and much fear was the same as mine would have been based on years in logistics and being able to read the runes.

It was largely the media headlines last Friday (24th) screaming that there was a shortage that caused the panic.

 

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, 30801 said:

Well that's my energy prices going for a bit of a hike.

That is appalling, I would change my supplier if I had such an increase. Not that I haven't had an increase but my supplier has the lowest increase and is amongst the cheapest, and is highly unlikely to fail.

[Andy Hayter]

I accept the media comments - first time I have seen them in the flesh.

 

So here we are 8/9 days down the track.

 

Everyone's tank is full (I know there are people to whom that does not apply).  

 

Usage must now be based on daily usage rather than tanking up

 

So the delivery companies can now cope can't they?

 

Well no.

 

80 reserve tankers already in use with drivers' rest and holidays cancelled.

300 (mythical?) drivers coming from the EU

The Army poised to start reinforcing delivery.

 

 

I do not dispute that the media have exacerbated the situation.  My point is that it was going to happen anyway.  That we suddenly need all these extra resources to get back to a normal situation should tell you that.

[black and decker boy]

26 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

That is appalling, I would change my supplier if I had such an increase. Not that I haven't had an increase but my supplier has the lowest increase and is amongst the cheapest, and is highly unlikely to fail.

Having checked U-Switch dot com earlier today, you’ll find you cannot switch easily as due to price volatility, the vast majority of deals have been withdrawn. U-Switch offered me no deals, yes, zero.

 

it seems we are all in for an energy price  hike this winter.

[Bert Cheese]

I am hoping this will be over soon?
I filled up the previous Thurday morning as per usual and hope to wring the recent average of 600 miles out of my Golf GT doing around 50 mph as the M27 is very slowly ruined into a "smart motorway" these days?

By the afternoon the local radio was awash with reports of panic buying at fuel stations which led to me feeling slightly smug for an hour or so...

 

That aside, I've now got enough diesel left for another 5 days in theory...the queues at fuel points locally seem ridiculous when passing so if it comes to it I'll brave getting the train from Eastleigh to Hilsea and back for a couple of weeks or so...might need a dram of Scotch for the returns though?

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

 

 

 

Of course we could have hoped for a Pravda like media (a joke in itself - Pravda means truth in Russian) that suppressed the bad news and pretended it never happened even in the presence of queues at the pumps.   

Izvestia was the other main news paper in the Soviet Union and it meant "The News"

The Duo were commonly referred to by this anecdote "There's no truth in News and no news in Truth"

Bit like the Daily Rabble in the UK!

[Guest]

8 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

That is appalling, I would change my supplier if I had such an increase.

I have a feeling that other suppliers won’t be taking on new customers with super low quotes…

27p per kWh is quite horrific. It’s more like what I’d expect to pay to rapid charge the car. If it were a regular public charger I’d laugh and go somewhere else.

[rockershovel]

I saw a piece about short fuel stocks I the Guardian, some time ago. The dear old Grauniad might seem at times, quite barmy but it is just about the last newspaper using "long format" reporting, which requires a certain coherence not found in "short form". The gist of it was that since the whole point of just-in-time supply chains was to increase profitability by reducing inventory, then if you reduce demand, inventory of just about any commodity you cared to name would reduce accordingly, by the operation of the system. Its also characteristic of JIT systems that they adapt to reduce and eliminate overcapacity in the supply chain, trading flexibility for profit at the current demand level. So a crisis of supply in just about anything you might think of, would inevitably follow from any extended  period of restriction of demand. We still have fuel at terminals, because there was a previous oversupply of fuel in transit (there being no shortage of tanker ships) but the onward distribution chain is a different matter

Edited October 3, 2021 by rockershovel