More model ideas

[Flying Pig]

18 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

And a unit-heavy layout will be an expensive thing to stock, e.g. if modelling one of the crossing places between Salisbury and Exeter, you'd need a minimum of 4 x 3-car Class 159s just for a basic service.

 

John

 

And how many sets of loco hauled stock would you need? And how many extra locos just for variety? 

[Kelly]

30 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

 

And how many sets of loco hauled stock would you need? And how many extra locos just for variety? 

 

It is a bit of a piece of string argument really. It depends how long your layout is and whether you have a layout capable of taking a full length HST or loco + 10+ coaches or just a loco + 2 or + 4 or a 4 car unit.

[Dunsignalling]

13 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

And how many sets of loco hauled stock would you need? And how many extra locos just for variety? 

If you modelled it as it is today, once in a blue moon when trains off the GWML get diverted between Exeter and Yeovil, for engineering blocks. 800s plus one or two rarely-used freight Q-paths a day; maybe a fortnight every other year. None of the short "Castle" HST's have yet come our way and Cross Country don't divert, they just cancel/bus. Diversions for incidents on the WR seldom amount to more than a couple of 800s until they're cleared up.

 

We haven't had booked RHTT west of Yeovil since they fitted sanders to the 159s. I photographed one of the WR rakes (between 2x66) when things got really slippy about 15 years ago and I think that was the last time. Ballast usually comes in dumpy bags, but we average a ballast train about every three years.

 

Normally you'd need just two Colas 67s top-and-tailing the track recorder that runs on alternate Thursdays, and GW 57's for the PZ sleepers that are scheduled to divert on alternate Sunday nights but lately often don't.

 

If you did Axminster or west of, you'd now also need more units, a GW 2+1-car 158 up and back once on weekdays, and SWR's 2-car 158s put in quite frequent appearances in company with 159s. 

 

Steam specials, maybe two a year (only one way because nothing can turn at Exeter) but sometimes a couple of years without. More east of Yeovil, though.

 

Single line sections are up to 18 miles long, so there's little room for much more than  the hourly SWR schedule anyway.

 

John

Edited August 13, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Flying Pig]

@Dunsignalling, @Kelly I think you're missing the point, which is that a unit based layout is not necessarily more expensive to stock than an equivalent one using loco hauled trains, regardless of the detailed specifics of a particular route.

[TomScrut]

8 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

go "toe to toe" on any prototype when there are plenty of potential subjects

 

8 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Voyagers and 170s

 

The thing is it's that long since Bachmann did any (of either) that it can be questioned whether this is actually their turf or not.

 

8 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

reasonable chance there are retooled models of them in the pipeline

 

Well they did announce a retool of the 170 a while back, that hasn't come to anything yet. They got rid of the expected dates, but I don't think they ever said whether work was continuing or not.

 

Id love an up to date Northern 170 and/or XC 220/221, who will do it?

[TomScrut]

7 hours ago, Kelly said:

A DMU or EMU will be typically a couple, one for each direction at minimum, dependant upon length that might be 4 or six.

 

My main interest is present day (ish) Yorkshire ECML operation. As it stands, I have 2x LNER 800s (5 coach, my layout can't handle 9 so don't have the coaches on order to do that), 2 Northern 150s and a Northern 153. I am awaiting 2 lots of TPE mk5s, not units but genuine fixed rake loco hauled sets, 1x TPE 802, 1x Lumo 803 and 1x Northern 156. That will get to me I think a fairly decent representation of where I model unit wise.

 

However, I am waiting for the order book to open on the GC 180, and I am hoping that a Northern 158 arrives, along with a Northern 170 and XC 220 or 221 (probably wouldn't have both). More outlandish than that I'd like to see a TPE 185 and Northern 195.

 

I think if I got what I wanted I'd have a decent selection of units!

[AndrewB7585]

2 hours ago, TomScrut said:

More outlandish than that I'd like to see a TPE 185 and Northern 195.

I model present day Yorkshire, primarily the Leeds - Skipton area. Either of these would get my money. TPE stuff has the advantage of covering a good area of the country, from coast to coast.
 

The 195 is designed as a modular train meaning you could tool up three / four vehicles and then be able to produce the 195 as two car and three car plus the 331 as three car or four car. There is also the other units in this family such as the 196. With the intelligent tooling design Accurascale employ they could come up with a suite to cover these and then have units which again are wide ranging in their operation. I’d also think that Accurascale have a working relationship with the units builders, CAF, through the Mk5 project.   

[Dunsignalling]

9 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

 

The thing is it's that long since Bachmann did any (of either) that it can be questioned whether this is actually their turf or not.

 

 

Well they did announce a retool of the 170 a while back, that hasn't come to anything yet. They got rid of the expected dates, but I don't think they ever said whether work was continuing or not.

 

Id love an up to date Northern 170 and/or XC 220/221, who will do it?

It's not so much a matter of whether it's anybody's "turf", merely a calculation of the odds that the previous producer might already have a retool in progress, on which work could be prioritised to beat a newly announced model to market. 

 

Duplication is something that everyone prefers to avoid, and all the more so if ones shiny new project carries an increased risk of crossing the finishing line second.

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

11 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

@Dunsignalling, @Kelly I think you're missing the point, which is that a unit based layout is not necessarily more expensive to stock than an equivalent one using loco hauled trains, regardless of the detailed specifics of a particular route.

My point is that to represent a real-life service on most of the network, where units often run in multiple, you need several of the same type. The calculation for my scenario is significantly over two grand for 4 x SWR 159 (minimum, albeit there are still different liveries extant) a couple of their 2-car 158s, and a pair of GW 158s that would need cobbling into a three-car. 

 

To me, it Just wouldn't offer any real operational interest for the investment involved. That, though, I consider a weakness of all "modern image" from a layout standpoint unless you just like watching trains go by and stopping occasionally. Whatever floats your boat (other cliches are available), but I find the predictable uniformity tedious (if prototypical - many spotting locations are getting that way nowadays). I therefore set my personal cut-off at the end of regular wagon-load freight. For many, that would be maybe 1990-ish, but round here, it was a year or two before the end of steam! 

 

Incidentally I've just put two pre-owned Hornby Light Pacifics (bought as non-runners) back into working order. Even when detailed up, the pair won't owe me much more than a tenth of my notional "unit" stock needs, and I'll be able to use them on all manner of trains.  

 

John 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Paul.Uni]

14 hours ago, TomScrut said:

Well they did announce a retool of the 170 a while back, that hasn't come to anything yet. They got rid of the expected dates, but I don't think they ever said whether work was continuing or not.

Just so that we are clear about the status of the Bachmann new tooling 170 announced in 2018, it and the old tooling class 20 models were 'omitted from the combined volume' in 2020. This is not the same as cancelled, as work continuing on the 170 is neither confirmed or denied.

 

If Bachmann are still working on the 170 (which in my opinion is likely) we won't here anything until they are about to be released.

[Kelly]

7 minutes ago, Paul.Uni said:

 

 

If Bachmann are still working on the 170 (which in my opinion is likely) we won't here anything until they are about to be released.

 

If we're going to hear anything I expect it will be at Warley or in February potentially now. Though they've moved to the every 3 months model of announcements so there could be some surpises in October.

[St. Simon]

15 hours ago, TomScrut said:

Well they did announce a retool of the 170 a while back, that hasn't come to anything yet. They got rid of the expected dates, but I don't think they ever said whether work was continuing or not.

 

24 minutes ago, Kelly said:

 

If we're going to hear anything I expect it will be at Warley or in February potentially now. Though they've moved to the every 3 months model of announcements so there could be some surpises in October.

 

Hi,

 

As Bachman said, it has just been on the slow boil and will appear in the future, it isn’t shelved and any news will now come as part of the quarterly announcements, but only when they are available (or at least available within the following 3 months)

 

I know it is being worked on, although I don’t know exactly what stage they are at now or how actively it is being worked on.

 

Simon

[TomScrut]

47 minutes ago, Paul.Uni said:

This is not the same as cancelled, as work continuing on the 170 is neither confirmed or denied

 

Hence why I said "but I don't think it was said whether work was continuing or not" rather than "it's cancelled because they pulled it from the catalogue".

[Craig1989]

Any ideas when the next announcement will be? as I thought they said they were announcing 20 new models this year 

 

cheers Craig 

[Wickham Green too]

4 hours ago, Craig1989 said:

.... thought they said they were announcing 20 new models this year ...

Was that Bachmann or Accurascale ..... I've lost track of who this threads about ! ☹️

[Craig1989]

47 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Was that Bachmann or Accurascale ..... I've lost track of who this threads about ! ☹️

Accurascale 

[newbryford]

47 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Was that Bachmann or Accurascale ..... I've lost track of who this threads about ! ☹️

 

Nah - DJ Models...............

[andythenorth]

Revisiting the long lost days of July 3rd in this thread...

 

Sticking a ➕➕➕ on a HST, for the following reasons

 

• I've been carefully avoiding researching the Hornby one, was afraid of the sticker price shock
• the sticker price shock has happened, I don't like it
• the ones I most want (80s blue-grey, DC) are only available from eBay scalpers

 

Most importantly, 'HST' is only a couple of letters away from 'HTV' (as we all know a HTV hopper is the most needed OO item).  So it follows naturally from the HTV, which must be coming according to my unique ability to see the future (using 'guessing'). 

 

HTV and HST can even run on the same layout in the same time period (at least for a blue HST). Even with a 37 hauling HTVs. Or a 31 hauling HTVs.  Dunno about a Deltic. But think of the sales potential. Modellers with HTVs will clearly need at least one HST and vice versa. Pure commercial gold.

 

Also that 89 is going to need a DVT for the rear yes/no? 

 

So that's it all sorted then:

• sets of 3 HTVs at £75 each 
• a blue/grey HST at £800 for 7 cars DC with sound
• an IC swallow HST at £800 for 7 cars DC with sound

Dunno how much the HST DVT would be, I'll leave that to A/S 

 

No complaints?  Ok good. 😉

 

Now, what else is a few letters away from 'HTV'? 😛

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by andythenorth

[BR Blue]

A HTV is a good call. I would say it is likely. I think a lot of people would like an alternative to the Hornby HST and it is one of those items that I believe the market could support more than one manufacturer.

Edited August 16, 2022 by BR Blue
missing word added

[Flying Pig]

2 hours ago, andythenorth said:

Now, what else is a few letters away from 'HTV'? 😛

 

 

IDK

[rob D2]

12 hours ago, andythenorth said:

Revisiting the long lost days of July 3rd in this thread...

 

Sticking a ➕➕➕ on a HST, for the following reasons

 

• I've been carefully avoiding researching the Hornby one, was afraid of the sticker price shock
• the sticker price shock has happened, I don't like it
• the ones I most want (80s blue-grey, DC) are only available from eBay scalpers

 

Most importantly, 'HST' is only a couple of letters away from 'HTV' (as we all know a HTV hopper is the most needed OO item).  So it follows naturally from the HTV, which must be coming according to my unique ability to see the future (using 'guessing'). 

 

HTV and HST can even run on the same layout in the same time period (at least for a blue HST). Even with a 37 hauling HTVs. Or a 31 hauling HTVs.  Dunno about a Deltic. But think of the sales potential. Modellers with HTVs will clearly need at least one HST and vice versa. Pure commercial gold.

 

Also that 89 is going to need a DVT for the rear yes/no? 

 

So that's it all sorted then:

• sets of 3 HTVs at £75 each 
• a blue/grey HST at £800 for 7 cars DC with sound
• an IC swallow HST at £800 for 7 cars DC with sound

Dunno how much the HST DVT would be, I'll leave that to A/S 

 

No complaints?  Ok good. 😉

 

Now, what else is a few letters away from 'HTV'? 😛

 

 

 

Good call , but can you do the HST for 700, wife wants a new washing machine 

[Hal Nail]

12 hours ago, andythenorth said:

Or a 31 hauling HTVs.  Dunno about a Deltic.

 

 

I think its highly unlikely a 31 could haul a Deltic.

[andythenorth]

24 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Good call , but can you do the HST for 700, wife wants a new washing machine 

Yes, but you only get 5.5 cars.

[andythenorth]

20 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

 

I think its highly unlikely a 31 could haul a Deltic.

 

No I'm not playing the game of searching Flickr for the rest of the night looking for that. 😛

 

Did find this on Flickr though - 31 and 25 dragging a HST.  All in blue.

 

 

From this photo we can conclude that:

• Accurascale definitely doing a HST, as it's the ideal consist to put behind their 31
• they'll also have to do a 25, adding yet another one to the 3.5 already available in OO (Heljan, Bachmann, SLW, and the Hornby thing from before I was born).  We already have 3.5 more 25s than anyone needs, so I will be taking my custom elsewhere.

 

UPDATE: seems A/S have got the number wrong on their 31 for this, they're doing 31128 when the photo clearly shows 31218.  Only off by one though, can probably overlook that.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by andythenorth

[Trainsandtravel]

I am hoping that Accurascale will release the MK1 gangway coaches in all there forms. I know that Hornby and Bachmann produce these coaches but they are often sold out and I think they are showing their age now. If Accurascale could release some to the same standard as their mk1 suburban coaches, that would be perfect!

Edited August 16, 2022 by Trainsandtravel
Correct spelling