The Night Mail

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

The thing that gets me about UFOs is how small they are supposed to be.
 

Looking at it logically, the first thing you conclude is that they will be from outside our solar system and, given what we know about the closest planetary systems to us, they will be from quite a few solar systems away. Now there are two possible scenarios for their ships: one, they do have a Faster Than Light (FTL) drive; two, they don’t have a FTL drive and travel either in suspended animation or in so-called multi-generation ships.
 

In either case, you would need a pretty big ship to complete the journey from their home system to our solar system. A big ship would be required either because of the need to store supplies for any such journey or to have the facilities to process the raw materials harvested from various astroid belts they travel through. Okay, you could say that these small UFOs are to the mothership like a launch is to a battleship. But anything the size needed for interstellar travel would be very hard to miss as it entered the solar system (the skies are under constant observation by both amateurs and professionals). 

And why would they want to visit Earth anyway? We are definitely in a galactic backwater and any resources that might be of interest to an alien species (water, various minerals and other raw materials) are much more easily acquired (and in greater quantities) in the astroid belt than from Earth.

3 hours ago, SM42 said:

Why visit Earth?

 

Well we have been looking for them for years. ( SETI?) 

 

Why? 

 

Natural curiosity  I suppose. 

 

We have also been advertising our presence for more the best part of 130 years. 

 

Those TV and radio signals get everywhere. 

 

You could argue that in a potentially hostile universe this is unwise. 

 

But at 25,000 light years to the nearest galaxy would it be possible to to visit?

The 4.25 light years to the nearest star maybe, but does it have a habitable planet? 

 

 

Therein lies the next thing that gets me going about looking for life elsewhere in the universe. 

 

Why do we assume that life anywhere else out there requires the same basic resources as life on earth. 

 

Why would it need water. It might do quite well on another chemical compound. 

 

The fact that we exist is pretty remarkable, the fact that we have gone beyond the life basics of eating and multiplying is pretty remarkable. 

 

Why would any other life form have to follow the same path?

The Sci-fi movie 'The Abyss' covers a lot of the points raised above. The alien vessel was enormous but was out of sight in the depths of the ocean and they may have had anti detection technology far in advance of ours. Also their *home planet conditions could mean that they would find the depths of our oceans more suited to themselves and they could even be aquatic. One thing for certain is their form is highly unlikely to be humanoid, the only human like thing that they could possibly have is an equivalent to our opposable thumb but that could be something like a claw. As for longevity many earth creatures outlive man and it's now reckoned that lobsters can live up to two hundred years. That means that an alien could resemble a lobster 😄. 

*The atmospheric pressure on their home planet could be equal to that of the deepest of our oceans.

[SM42]

Maybe they land in barely populated places as they reckon that if it gets nasty  they only have have few locals to take on and if they want to be discreet, a few hillbillies drinking the local brew wouldn't be believed. 

 

More intelligent than you give them credit for.  

 

Andy

[SM42]

Vodka and cake is imminent 

 

🤪

 

Andy

[jamie92208]

Our friends are about to arrive to play Belote.  Cake has been baked. 

 

Jamie

[SM42]

Cake arrived, cake eaten

 

 

🤪

 

Andy

[Northmoor]

Being a registered tightwad, I've bought no-one any Easter eggs, our (young adults now) children can buy their own.  I might be buying one or two tomorrow when the supermarkets start discounting them by at least 75%.  It takes some gall to take two small bars of Dairy Milk, put them in a box with a chocolate egg amounting to one similar bar, then charging ten quid for it.

[Winslow Boy]

11 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Being a registered tightwad, I've bought no-one any Easter eggs, our (young adults now) children can buy their own.  I might be buying one or two tomorrow when the supermarkets start discounting them by at least 75%.  It takes some gall to take two small bars of Dairy Milk, put them in a box with a chocolate egg amounting to one similar bar, then charging ten quid for it.

That's free enterprise for you.

[Winslow Boy]

15 minutes ago, SM42 said:

Cake arrived, cake eaten

 

 

🤪

 

Andy

Yes but what about the vodka.

[Tony_S]

51 minutes ago, Winslow Boy said:

Yes but what about the vodka.

Spirited away…

[SM42]

1 hour ago, Winslow Boy said:

Yes but what about the vodka.

 

Drunk

 

More later after dinner 

 

Andy

[Dave Hunt]

Since we were expecting a deluge of grandchildren over Easter, many chocolate eggs were bought but with Jill having a rotten cold that she caught from me the deluge didn't happen. Therefore we now have uneaten chocolate eggs clamouring to be consumed. So far we have resisted the temptations on the grounds that said eggs have been promised to the GKs when next we see them and with the average GK having the memory of an elephant when it comes to presents (particularly edible ones) they will definitely expect them to be readily available. However, should a trip to the supermarket reveal Easter eggs at knockdown prices....??  

 

Dave

[rockershovel]

2 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Being a registered tightwad, I've bought no-one any Easter eggs, our (young adults now) children can buy their own.  I might be buying one or two tomorrow when the supermarkets start discounting them by at least 75%.  It takes some gall to take two small bars of Dairy Milk, put them in a box with a chocolate egg amounting to one similar bar, then charging ten quid for it.

I have a speculative venture of that sort playing out now... as we won't see any of our grandkids till after Easter weekend, we are off to see what is on offer...

[iL Dottore]

8 hours ago, polybear said:

Ah, but you're thinking what we'd need - which may well not be the same as they'd need.....

Perhaps.

 

All life forms have to follow certain physical and biological constants. Firstly, they will undoubtably be carbon based. Although, because of its close similarity to carbon, silicon could possibly form the basis of a life form, it is highly unlikely as many of the basic metabolic cellular processes would not function with silicon. (there have been a number of interesting and erudite papers on [theoretical] silicon life).

 

Secondly, both water and metals would be needed by any alien life form, if nothing else for industrial reasons.

 

I would agree that aliens that look like humans or are vaguely humanoid is probably going to be somewhat unlikely (although in much of science fiction, such as in the books of Larry Niven, the explanation for numerous humanoid life forms is that all such lifeforms can trace their origins back to an initial diaspora of humanoids billions of years ago and evolution on different planets over millions of years has resulted in alien, but none the less vaguely humanoid, life forms).

 

Where it does get rather fuzzy is with how the aliens reproduce and pass on that information, that biological code, that results in offspring being the same species as the parents. Whilst DNA, as we currently understand it, is the most efficient way of passing on this information, there are potentially other ways of doing so. Additionally there could well be more than two sexes. Larry Niven’s Puppeteers have three: two types of male and a non sentient female - all three of which are needed in order to produce offspring (IIRC, there is a book of science fiction essays on this topic called “Alien Sex”).

 

In Larry Nivens universe there are a number of types of reproduction: male & female, sentient male/non sentient female, three gender reproduction, binary fission and species where each individual of that species is both male AND female - gender changing according to environmental and innate biological factors.

 

The interesting thing is all of the above reproductive strategies, with perhaps the exception of the Puppeteers, are to be found in various organisms on earth. 

 

 

Edited March 31 by iL Dottore

[polybear]

3 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

Perhaps.

 

All life forms have to follow certain physical and biological constants. Firstly, they will undoubtably be carbon based. Although, because of its close similarity to carbon, silicon could possibly form the basis of a life form, it is highly unlikely as many of the basic metabolic cellular processes would not function with silicon. (there have been a number of interesting and erudite papers on [theoretical] silicon life).

 

Secondly, both water and metals would be needed by any alien life form, if nothing else for industrial reasons.

 

 

Again you're thinking of chemicals/elements and materials that we have - they may well have some that we've never encountered.

[Winslow Boy]

1 hour ago, SM42 said:

 

Drunk

 

More later after dinner 

 

Andy

I would have expected nothing less in both activities.

[Winslow Boy]

19 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

I have a speculative venture of that sort playing out now... as we won't see any of our grandkids till after Easter weekend, we are off to see what is on offer...

Free enterprise again.

[Winslow Boy]

7 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Again you're thinking of chemicals/elements and materials that we have - they may well have some that we've never encountered.

Does that mean they wouldn't have curly fries or heaven forbid baked beans! Shock horror.

 

It's life Jim but not as we know it.

Edited March 31 by Winslow Boy

[polybear]

1 minute ago, Winslow Boy said:

Does that mean they wouldn't have curly fries or heaven forbid baked beans! Shock horror.

 

Good point - perhaps they're not as advanced as we first thought.....

 

However......

 

That'd be a very good reason for interstellar travel - perhaps they're coming in search of CF's & Baked Beans.....

[Happy Hippo]

Just back from an afternoon of non shooting.

 

An Easter Sunday families shoot ensured that my time was taken up  as one of the range safety team.  I ended up manning the gate from the firing point onto the range.

 

I did get a very small  chocolate Easter egg for my troubles.

 

I now await the arrival of  my daughter and her two children for their Easter visit.

 

No Easter eggs for them, but they've requested sausages for their tea, which are waiting to go into the frying pan.

[Winslow Boy]

1 minute ago, polybear said:

 

Good point - perhaps they're not as advanced as we first thought.....

 

However......

 

That'd be a very good reason for interstellar travel - perhaps they're coming in search of CF's & Baked Beans.....

Good job we have your curly fries and baked beans stash then hey Bear.

We will fight them in the baked bean factories and on the curly fries fields.

[SM42]

Its official 

 

I'm full

 

Just enough room for a couple of vodkas to aid digestion. 

 

Andy

[iL Dottore]

27 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Again you're thinking of chemicals/elements and materials that we have - they may well have some that we've never encountered.

Chemicals and other materials, quite likely. In fact, I’d go as far as say definitively.

 

Elements?

 

Not A Chance!
 

You need to brush up on your periodic table and sub atomic physics my Dear Bear. 
 

94 elements occur naturally.  A further 24, (americium to oganesson [95–118]), occur only when synthesised in laboratories. It might be possible to synthesise more than those 24 non-natural elements (but unlikely) but like the 24 we have synthesised they’d be in microscopic not macroscopic quantities and unstable to boot. There’s only so much you can do with/to an atom.

[Hroth]

{gloat}

I've got TWO medium (190g) Easter Eggs.  1 Terrys Choc Orange, 1 Cadburys Twirl.  And I haven't opened either yet!

{/gloat}

 

I have sampled bits of the shell from two other eggs because I had lunch at the Rectors.  One was a Celebrations egg, which being Galaxy chocolate was revolting.  The other was a "Percy Pig" egg, which was ABSOLUTELY revolting.  If anyone remembers Pink Panther bars*, they'll know what I mean...  I ate the fragments merely to be polite.  Honest!

 

* I've a story concerning these and a group of over-excited children on a tour bus around Knowsley Safari Park on a hot day, which I won't repeat now as it'll put you off your tea...

 

[polybear]

2 minutes ago, Hroth said:

{gloat}

I've got TWO medium (190g) Easter Eggs.  1 Terrys Choc Orange, 1 Cadburys Twirl.  And I haven't opened either yet!

{/gloat}

 

I have sampled bits of the shell from two other eggs because I had lunch at the Rectors.  One was a Celebrations egg, which being Galaxy chocolate was revolting.  The other was a "Percy Pig" egg, which was ABSOLUTELY revolting.  If anyone remembers Pink Panther bars*, they'll know what I mean...  I ate the fragments merely to be polite.  Honest!

 

Bear is searching for some sympathy to send you....but it seems I'm right out.....😒

[polybear]

13 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

Chemicals and other materials, quite likely. In fact, I’d go as far as say definitively.

 

Elements?

 

Not A Chance!
 

You need to brush up on your periodic table and sub atomic physics my Dear Bear. 
 

94 elements occur naturally.  A further 24, (americium to oganesson [95–118]), occur only when synthesised in laboratories. It might be possible to synthesise more than those 24 non-natural elements (but unlikely) but like the 24 we have synthesised they’d be in microscopic not macroscopic quantities and unstable to boot. There’s only so much you can do with/to an atom.

 

Assuming their life is based on atoms.....