After a sale on eBay how long is it reasonable for a seller to assume responsibility for an item?

[Sir TophamHatt]

On 16/07/2020 at 16:26, micklner said:

I would'nt (sic) refund, tell him to return it and take it from there. There are a lot of chancers on ebay ,who try it on to try and get money off. If he is one you wont hear anything else from him.

 

Bad feedback ? Just do a counter reply to the comment. Dont worry about the negative feedback.

 

 

Sound advice here.

 

It's a really hard one but after 3 weeks, they should have tested it by now.

Also ask for images of the packaging (unless they're on the ball, it's unlikely they'll have them) for you to investigate with Royal Mail.

 

I advertised some empty boxes and a few other bits for a game recently.

I made it absolutely clear it was empty boxes - no game (but did include a pin badge and soft toy).

Bidder won said item.  I posted it to an Argos as instructed by PayPal.

Buyer suggested three items were missing.

I asked them to re-check and I would re-check here.

Seller then said just two items were missing.

I asked for photos of the outer box so I could investigate with Royal Mail and the local Argos.

Seller opened a case stating just one item was missing.

I responded to the case asking for photos.

Seller didn't reply, eBay ruled in my favour after the time out period.

 

Even if a case is opened against you, eBay doesn't automatically always side with the buyer these days unless they're doing everything to the letter.

[chris p bacon]

15 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Even if a case is opened against you, eBay doesn't automatically always side with the buyer these days unless they're doing everything to the letter.

 

I'm afraid it does.

 

Recently sold an item and it went via the ebay overseas postal system. as it was £12 I stuck a stamp on and dropped it in the post, a few days later I got an automated email to say it had been received at their depot and was now on the way to the USA. That means that as far as Ebay is concerned I have fulfilled my part of the sale & postage contract.

About 3 weeks later I get a notification from Ebay that they have refunded the buyer as the item hasn't been received. The buyer had contacted Ebay asking them to trace the parcel as it was shown as stuck in an Alabama sorting office for 2+ weeks, ebay then immediately refunded him and claimed the amount back from my Paypal as I had not loaded a tracking number to prove I had sent it and closed the case. All this was done in a matter of seconds and before I had the email advising me.

I contacted Ebay and sent links to their own mail tracking system which showed they had received the parcel  and that under their rules I had fulfilled the contract. They disputed this as there was no tracking number added but I persisted and they eventually said they would refund me as a 'gesture of goodwill' I refused this and insisted they acknowledge that they were at fault and should not have taken the money from my account as they did not have authorisation, I also contacted Paypal with the same documentation and they immediately refunded me the monies stating that Ebay had fraudulently removed the money from my account. I eventually got an apology from Ebay.

No doubt the whole thing was automated, but it's humans that program and set the criteria.

 

I had no issue with the buyer during this process, he only chased up the postage and was surprised when he was refunded as he wanted the parts, he contacted me to say the parts actually turned up about 3 months after I posted them.

[Sir TophamHatt]

10 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

I'm afraid it does.

 

 

In one of your experiences maybe.

But not in mine.

Sorry about that.

[chris p bacon]

51 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

 

In one of your experiences maybe.

But not in mine.

Sorry about that.

 I think you missed the point that this wasn't a case of the buyer and seller not agreeing something, but that Ebay automatically sided with the buyer even though it actually had the evidence itself to prove otherwise. This is not an isolated experience but one of many. 

Ebay fees are cheap in the grand scheme of things so I put the dishonest ones down as part of the cost. 

 

I recently sold some redundant scaffolding that had to be picked up and insisted on cash on collection, the buyer tried to pay with PayPal but I returned the payment and reminded them that it was COC. They came and took it paying as requested and a week later opened a case of 'Non delivery' and asked for their money back.  After a few messages back and forth it dawned on them that they'd paid in cash and already had the payment returned. He then cancelled the sale (avoiding feedback?) which I agreed to and got the fees back.  It would have been good to leave negative feedback to warn others about him.......oh wait....I can't ...because Ebay side with the buyers not the sellers.

[adb968008]

Ive had a few where the buyers try it on.

 

on some high value items, I now video the item being tested, wrapped, packed and make a special mark over the parcel tape joins visible on the video, as well as some very specific non-descript actions on the model (which I wont share).

 

I had one £180 item where they buyer called me, claimed parts were missing.

All agreeable he uploaded pictures, I saw straight off one “action” wasnt visible.

 

knowing ebay sides with the buyer, I contacted ebay and advised them this was a potential con-job, let him return it, refunded him in good faith, to avoid the aggro / maintain ebay compliance first (very important) then videoed it being opened, and compared examination afterwards.
I then passed him a letter with the evidence, on a private youtube channel and asking him to reconsider the refund in light of evidence presented and that I’d consider to open a legal claim, if no response was received in a set time frame.

 

He sent me a cheque back, no apology within 2-3 days.

 

Sellers do have legal recourse outside ebay, if you have sufficient evidence to show burden of proof that the buyers actions caused the damage. I didn’t ban him on ebay, as I dont doubt he will never buy from me again... oh and he left me nice positive feedback, just as I asked him to in my letter. 

Remeber the contract is between Buyer and Seller, it works both ways, buyers might be protected by ebay, but they cannot hide behind it, law is law.

 

Its not worth it for lower value items, but Ive no doubts it absolutely put the wind up him and think he’ll think twice before trying it on again, with anyone.

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by adb968008

[hayfield]

As you say there are two sides to every story and I think both peoples attitude to returning items bought mail order and eBays buyer/seller protection rules makes some think it allows them free reign to do what they want

 

I recently had an issue with a kit I bought, it was referred to as being a certain type and make, but one of the major parts had been swapped for an earlier inferior part. In the description the part was referred to quite ambiguously and the part in question was not photographed. The seller apologised and offered either a partial refund allowing me to buy the part in question or a full refund.  I guess the kit had been farmed by someone and the part swapped out

 

As it happens the seller gave me £10 more than I asked, I am happy and I guess the seller may have been not fully aware of the issue. The reason I refer to this often things go wrong, but are amicably settled and go unreported  

[Michael Hodgson]

10 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Ive had a few where the buyers try it on.

 

on some high value items, I now video the item being tested, wrapped, packed and make a special mark over the parcel tape joins visible on the video, as well as some very specific non-descript actions on the model (which I wont share).

 

I had one £180 item where they buyer called me, claimed parts were missing.

All agreeable he uploaded pictures, I saw straight off one “action” wasnt visible.

 

knowing ebay sides with the buyer, I contacted ebay and advised them this was a potential con-job, let him return it, refunded him in good faith, to avoid the aggro / maintain ebay compliance first (very important) then videoed it being opened, and compared examination afterwards.
I then passed him a letter with the evidence, on a private youtube channel and asking him to reconsider the refund in light of evidence presented and that I’d consider to open a legal claim, if no response was received in a set time frame.

 

He sent me a cheque back, no apology within 2-3 days.

 

Sellers do have legal recourse outside ebay, if you have sufficient evidence to show burden of proof that the buyers actions caused the damage. I didn’t ban him on ebay, as I dont doubt he will never buy from me again... oh and he left me nice positive feedback, just as I asked him to in my letter. 

Remeber the contract is between Buyer and Seller, it works both ways, buyers might be protected by ebay, but they cannot hide behind it, law is law.

 

Its not worth it for lower value items, but Ive no doubts it absolutely put the wind up him and think he’ll think twice before trying it on again, with anyone.

 

 

Where there is evidence to prove a buyer is attempting to commit fraud it's a great pity that  he's not prosecuted for it.  And it should not be you that has to instigate criminal proceedings - ebay/the police should tackle this as a matter of policy.  Neither organisation wants to know.

 

Ebay claim to want a fair market, honest dealings etc, but they are simply taking the easy way out.  The best you ever get out them is to ban somebody from their system, and even then all that happens is he opens another account in a new name.  Most people are perfectly all right, but the system is not doing enough to protect decent people from both dishonest buyers and dishonest sellers.

 

Bring back flogging! 

 

 

[Jinty3f]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Most people are perfectly all right, but the system is not doing enough to protect decent people from both dishonest buyers and dishonest sellers.

 

Bring back flogging! 

 

 

I thought ebay is entirely devoted to flogging stuff? ( northern idiom)

Edited December 28, 2020 by Jinty3f
Overquoted

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, Jinty3f said:

I thought ebay is entirely devoted to flogging stuff? ( northern idiom)

 

What are they not doing, look at all the complaints especially from sellers who say eBay side on buyers complaints

 

If an issue develops into a dispute the result is one side is happy the other side is unhappy.

 

You are far more likely to hear from those who lost

 

If eBay was as bad as some make out it would not be so successful. The vast majority of sales are trouble free