"Welsh Highland Railway Developments & Progress"?

[John M]

I was at Beddgelert a couple of days ago - the Garratt's hooter echoing in the rain through the woods and across the hillsides was decidedly atmospheric ... and there were plenty of people travelling or just stopping to photograph. But one thing - Beddgelert village appears to have no signs whatsoever to show which direction the station is. Strange? Or does the village not want the railway? (I half remember that there were some objections to the line's rebuilding.)

 

Opposition was primarily from the National Park Authority and the residents of a housing estate. The local business community in particular Hotels, Resturants and Copper Mine were supportive of the re-building of the railway.

 

The SNPA initially opposed the railway terminating within the National Park and is opposed to the provision of additional parking at Bedgellert.

 

The lack of signage may be a condition imposed by the Snowdon National Park Authority.

 

 

John

[coachmann]

They say Britain is full of character. The Welsh tourist industry wants tourists, the local councils delight in coning off roads to make life as difficult as possible for tourists, shop-keepers and pub-owners love tourists because they can rip them off, the Welsh dislike the English for something that happened 800 years ago, the English dislike the Welsh for speaking in their native tongue in their own country, wind turbines are erected at all major beauty spots, and so it goes.....

 

 

[Oldddudders]

"Come home to a real fire - buy a holiday cottage in Wales!"

[John_Hughes]

For what it's worth, I gather that the WHHR are now intending to extend their platform (right by the standard gauge) to accommodate full-length WHR trains.

[Guest Phil]

For what it's worth, I gather that the WHHR are now intending to extend their platform (right by the standard gauge) to accommodate full-length WHR trains.

 

Sounds very interesting John.

[AMJ]

The WHHR have some plans up to build a new toilet block on the 'short' platform opposite the headshunt. This looks like it will remove the siding by the shop where they have a few wagons on display.

 

A thought that I had is that the headshunt is not long enough for much more than most tank locos so I wonder if they are looking at taking off the NGG16 and running the train with either a VB fitted tank loco or a LYD2. This would give the BG a chance to take on water, before hauling the stock back to Caernarfon.

 

I find it fatal going to WHHR as I end up buying a book or two - on Tuesday I ended up buying the Bagnall book. Ouch!

[coachmann]

The WHHR have some plans up to build a new toilet block on the 'short' platform opposite the headshunt.

New toilet block? If you get caught short, there's nothing like a good headshunt.......

[coachmann]

The WHHR have some plans up to build a new toilet block on the 'short' platform opposite the headshunt.

Which roughly translated means, get caught short on platform, there's nothing like a good headshunt.......

[pointstaken]

From reading this thread, it sounds as if a few heads need shunting together (very hard !) to get some common sense to prevail.

 

Dennis

[pointstaken]

Oh, but it has Dennis Last July the WHHR had its AGM and as reported earlier, a new Board has been elected by the members. It is understood relations with the FR since are subject to some global warming

 

Often it's the inflated egos of the people that head those organisations which are at odds, not the people in the organisations.

 

Dennis

[Oldddudders]

Often it's the inflated egos of the people that head those organisations which are at odds, not the people in the organisations.

 

Dennis

So just like the bigger democracy that we call government. Whether it's a whole nation or just a railway preservation society, there are very few of us who want the limelight and the brickbats that go with the post. So the rest of us have very little cause for complaint when the few who volunteer to stand turn out to be not quite the way we'd hoped!

[coachmann]

Driving towards Bedgellert today, I saw smoke in distance. Wipped into laybye and told Mrs G. we should stretch our legs down by the river but didn't mention train. Then I spied something cruddy behind loco so changed my position to get head-on shot! The loco is Tasmanian K class, the first Garratt locomotive, which I've not seen since the 1960s when it was at Porthmadog. This to me is what the new WHR is all about....scenery, history and pleasant suprises....

[Chameleon]

We were pulled by the K1 (and the something cruddy behind, I gather the K1 alone isn't powerful enough to pull full length trains on the WHR) from Pont Croesor to Rhydd Dhu. Didn't really get any chance to take photos as we just jumped off one train, straight onto the other so I barely clapped eyes on the locos on either train. Shoulda bailed at Beddgelert n waited for the big Garrat to come in.

Still, was a nice trip and Aberglaslyn Pass is fantastic. Gotta take a walk up there sometime.

[Captain Kernow]

This to me is what the new WHR is all about....scenery, history and pleasant suprises....

Super photo, Larry, and you're spot on in your assessment there! I know of no other railway in the 'heritage/steam' sector that has quite the pull of the WHR for me at the moment.

[AMJ]

The other week I had my invitation to the full trip of the line from Caernarfon to PM Harbour station. Looking on the construction site the Britannia bridge crossing lights have been installed recently. There also is a date that the stretch of the Cambrian line will be on that ERTMS system. A comment has been made that they need HMRI aproval for the operation of the Cambrian crossing.

 

The plan is that the Gold/Silver train will be run from Caernarfon - PM in the morning and it will cross with the Bronze one at Pont Croesor. So any one down at PM that day can have the chance for 2 up and 2 down trains all the way through the center of PM. The operation is to take the train past Spooners onto the Cob & reverse into PM(H). Likewise departure from PM(H) is reverse out onto Cob before coming past Spooners and onto Britannia bridge.

 

Talk is that there may be public trains this winter from PM to Beddgellert.

[Neil]

..... Talk is that there may be public trains this winter from PM to Beddgellert.

 

I'd heard that too; the chap above will be most pleased if that comes to pass.

[baldopeter]

I can confirm the winter timetable has been approved and does have the winter trains from Port to Hafod y Llyn, and half term trains in March are Port - Caernarfon.

 

Once the FfR re-opens after the bridge for the bypass is complete then I expect most WHR trains next year to terminate at Pont Croesor.

 

Regards

 

 

Peter

[Captain Kernow]

Once the FfR re-opens after the bridge for the bypass is complete then I expect most WHR trains next year to terminate at Pont Croesor

But why would they do that, assuming that the Pont Croesor to Porthmadog section is completely open, when they could run through the whole length of the line?

[Phil Traxson]

But why would they do that, assuming that the Pont Croesor to Porthmadog section is completely open, when they could run through the whole length of the line?

 

I believe that the reason is that until Harbour station and the adjacent part of the Cob have been modified the station cannot cope with the full summer time table from both lines.

 

Phil Traxson

[John_Hughes]

I believe that the reason is that until Harbour station and the adjacent part of the Cob have been modified the station cannot cope with the full summer time table from both lines.

 

Phil Traxson

 

..... which makes the claim that there won't be sufficient line capacity for the WHHR to run to Pont Croesor next year look a bit thin.

[coachmann]

Isn't the cob to be widened to allow for a cross-platform inter change between the WHR and FR and to allow for run-round facilities? Whatever, it will be a super rail system in due course and another brownie point for the little trains of NWales. Not sure if toilet facilies are adequate at present......B)

[hayfield]

Isn't the cob to be widened to allow for a cross-platform inter change between the WHR and FR and to allow for run-round facilities? Whatever, it will be a super rail system in due course and another brownie point for the little trains of NWales. Not sure if toilet facilies are adequate at present......B)

 

At least you can get a very good pint whilst waiting for the loo.

[John_Hughes]

But the FR never (AFAIR) said that was the case. In fact, most "statements" on this matter came from sources *outside* senior FR management... The real reason why the WHHR isn't allowed (because there was a statement by Paul Lewin, F&WHR GM) is because the operational proposal by the then WHHR management was veto'd by the FR (mainly) as it underpriced FR tickets. Effectively, what the WHHR were proposing was an outright competition with the FR on their own railway! Now there's an obvious choice, isn't it? The publication of the rejection by the WHHR chairman backfired on him, as it led to his defeat at the AGM elections later this year (summer 2010)... ATM relations on management level are thawing, I've seen a photo of the new WHHR chairman and his F&WHR counterpart joining up at Beddgelert, with happy smiley faces all round

 

This is complicated, especially because of the various contradictory comments made by different people who are either 'in the know' or who pretend to be, but my impression had been that the 'public' reason why the FfR wouldn't let the WHHR run to Pont Croesor was that they would be running trains themselves and there wouldn't be capacity for the WHHR to do so as well; the 'private' reason was the falling-out between the two groups, on which I shall not make any comment beyond saying that it's a pity.

 

Since it now appears that the FfR / WHR won't actually be running (m)any trains on the Port extension next year, and since the two groups now appear to be getting along rather better, it would be pleasant if the WHHR could use the otherwise idle line, running from their own station at Port - and, of course, pay an access fee for doing so.

 

Comments?

[baldopeter]

You are all overlooking the facts on the ground. The CTRL and line to PC will be approved, and used this winter. This approval will be for a very basic railway with simple signalling and token system.

 

Any use by the WHHR would involve a more complex signalling and token system.

 

The cob widening is the next step, which will involve more complex signalling, and could allow for trains from the WHHR to gain access to the main line if it was included in the next proposals under ROGS. This would require all parties to agree finance and operation. With different people involved this may now be possible, whereas before any co-operation looked unlikely.

 

Please just accept that using this bit of railway is very complex with possible impacts on Network Rail, WHR and FR. It will take time for us sort things out and get used to the operational aspects step by step. It will just take a bit of time.

 

Regards

 

Peter

[Captain Kernow]

 

Please just accept that using this bit of railway is very complex with possible impacts on Network Rail, WHR and FR. It will take time for us sort things out and get used to the operational aspects step by step. It will just take a bit of time.

 

Peter,

 

You speak authoritatively and that's helpful, your post clearly implies that the operational situation is more complex than most of us at first appreciated. Although not on my own 'patch' in NR, I had always understood that the Cambrian crossing required the NR signalling to switch over to ERTMS, and I have in my possession a copy of the relevant 'Yellow Peril' operations notice, which states that it was to go live from 0001 on Sunday 05/9/10. Talking to colleagues at work, I was under the impression (although I may have misunderstood), that the ERTMS issue was the only factor holding up the use of the Cambrian crossing by WHR trains, certainly as far as NR were concerned?....