34006 Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 Thats a proper job,Amanda.Brilliant. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WM183 Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 (edited) Redacted Edited April 12, 2023 by WM183 Redacted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestag Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 On 19/11/2022 at 12:17, WM183 said: Today I fitted the (removable, bolted on) PCB board and pickups for the wheels. I am going with phosphor bronze back-scratcher types, and they seem to work well! Here is a video of this engine, running on its own, on track power! Some of the noise is this controller; it's old and does not provide the smoothest DC. However, a lot of this noise is the metal worm and gear. I really do not like how loud this is. However, it runs!! Wow! That noise is alarming! Have you got the worm square to the wheel? Be getting a nylon worm asap. Ultra scale has a good web site, you can figure out what the part number it is quickly once you have the dimensions of the worm and wheel that you have. I've had one worm work itself loose from the motor shaft. Some locktite purple (the weakest type) secured it. NIce that it is running. I am always chuffed when one works. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestag Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 It has been said that gears don't wear in, they only wear out. I never subscribed to the idea of tooth paste or anything to help gears "bed in". It's an opinion, but it is my opinion. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WM183 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) Redacted Edited April 12, 2023 by WM183 Redacted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted November 21, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 21, 2022 1 hour ago, WM183 said: It's a fold up gearbox from Roxey mouldings, and to my little eye looks near as perfect to 90 as I could wish. I have adjusted to about .3mm end lash on the motor shaft and minimal but feel able lash between worm and gear. The motor by itself is silent. I have no idea why its this loud. There is some side play in the gearbox on the axle. I'll shim that down to a floating fit and see if it helps. I am sure ordering a gear from ultrascale to Holland will be a PITA. Sigh. That sounds absolutely awful and wrong. Buy a better gearbox, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with fold up gearboxes, they’ve been used from day one but they rely on the skill of the builder, the better solid brass section boxes are so much better and almost always perfect from day one, yes more expensive but also almost silent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted November 21, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 21, 2022 https://www.mscmodels.co.uk/ https://abcgears.co.uk/index.html Just a couple I have used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WM183 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) Redacted Edited April 12, 2023 by WM183 Redacted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WM183 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) Redacted Edited April 12, 2023 by WM183 Redacted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestag Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 5 hours ago, WM183 said: It's a fold up gearbox from Roxey mouldings, and to my little eye looks near as perfect to 90 as I could wish. I have adjusted to about .3mm end lash on the motor shaft and minimal but feel able lash between worm and gear. The motor by itself is silent. I have no idea why its this loud. There is some side play in the gearbox on the axle. I'll shim that down to a floating fit and see if it helps. I am sure ordering a gear from ultrascale to Holland will be a PITA. Sigh. I doubt ordering a gear to the US is any easier. Ultra scale's web site is crystal clear, have you looked at it yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestag Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) "Worms Worm 0.141" Dia. Price shown is each £1.80 Worm 0.189" Dia. Price shown is each £1.80 Worm 0.250" Dia. Price shown is each £1.80 Worm 0.250" Dia. Two start Price shown is each £1.80 Specific Gear Data: Tooth'WD''WL''WB'WormNumber SizeWorm Dia.Worm LengthWorm BoreMaterialof Starts 100 DP0.141" [3.58mm]0.375" [9.53mm]1.5mm, 1.8mm or 2.0mmNylon1 100 DP0.189"" [4.80mm]0.375" [9.53mm]1.5mm, 1.8mm, 2.0mm or 3/32"Nylon1 100 DP0.189" [4.80mm]0.195" [4.95mm]1.0mm, 1.5mm, 1.8mm, 2.0mm or 3/32"Nylon or Steel1 0.4 MOD0.250" [6.35mm]0.375" [9.53mm]1.5mm, 1.8mm, 2.0mm or 3/32"Nylon or Steel1 0.4 MOD0.250" [6.35mm]0.375" [9.53mm]1.5mm, 1.8mm, 2.0mm or 3/32"Nylon2 Additional Information/Options: Worms are manufactured from either injection moulded Nylatron GS or Steel, unless otherwise indicated. Product Specific Information/Options can be seen by clicking on the product description. All worms are single start unless otherwise indicated." Measure the diameter of the worm to hand and match up. I'm pretty sure that it is a 100 dp gear, but you could inquire with Roxy. I am near certain that they get their gears from Ultrascale. You want a 2mm bore for your Mashima. It is a cheap and effective solution: I am sure your gearbox will be near silent afterwards. Edited November 21, 2022 by bluestag Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted November 21, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 21, 2022 2 hours ago, WM183 said: Welp. The MSC models 40:1 box looks perfect, BUT you have to order by post? What the hell? "Print off the order form and post it to us." ABC wants 90 pounds for a gearbox and pay by cash or "cheque". Guess this project is done. Here's my motor and gearbox running outside the loco, with the axle installed: The gearbox/bearings look “loose” I think under load your hearing the chattering of the clearances is my impression. Whats the issue with sending a paper order form by post, if your lucky they might be able to send the box in a jiffy envelope and through normal post 😉 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 Try a bit of toothpaste applied to the worm and run it slowly for a hour or so. (But avoid getting the toothpase in the axle bearings.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WM183 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) Redacted Edited April 12, 2023 by WM183 Redacted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted November 21, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, Miss Prism said: Try a bit of toothpaste applied to the worm and run it slowly for a hour or so. (But avoid getting the toothpase in the axle bearings.) Not so sure it needs clearance, it sounds loose to me (bearings at least) and if the gears were bought as a set with the gearbox they should be machine matched, I’ve never been able to get a gearbox to quieten by that method, often “jiggling” of the bearings and alignment is the key. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted November 21, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, WM183 said: So all I need to know is the diameter of my worm? I apologize for being thick, but this is all newstuff to me, these gears and these terms. You’re not thick, you’re learning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andi4x4 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 You need to get rid of that visible sideplay in the axle - that will definitely be causing some of the noise. I think Roxey or Slaters sell frets of thin brass washers/shims in various fine thicknesses specifically for shimming axles and gearboxes. Failing that, you could make your own from thin card. Shim to remove all discernible sideplay in the axle but avoid adding resistance. Once refitted into the loco chassis, shim the axle between the gearbox sides and the chassis frames to ensure the assembly cannot move around in the chassis and insulate/isolate the motor body from the chassis, too, to prevent the transmission of vibrations into the structure of the loco - don't forget it is an empty metal box - it will amplify any noise being produced just like the body of a guitar does. I don't remember, Are you using a flywheel ? They can help smooth things out quite a bit, if you have space (and a double shafted motor) All that aside, it looks lovely and appears to run smoothly, Good job so far ! Regards ! Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WM183 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) Redacted Edited April 12, 2023 by WM183 Redacted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andi4x4 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 I understand the budget constraints, been there myself in the past. The nylon worm is a must, I feel, and will go a long way to reducing noise. Silence from the cheap, fold up gearboxes seems to be something of a unicorn, the best one can hope for, in my experience, is quiet - with a nylon worm and some careful set-up. Order yourself some nylon pinions - if you have no joy getting any, PM me your details, and I will get some for you and forward them on 👍 Regards ! Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34006 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, WM183 said: Welp. The MSC models 40:1 box looks perfect, BUT you have to order by post? What the hell? "Print off the order form and post it to us." ABC wants 90 pounds for a gearbox and pay by cash or "cheque". Guess this project is done. Here's my motor and gearbox running outside the loco, with the axle installed: Hi Amanda,to my (slightly less than) eagle eye,it does look as if there is a very very slight wobble in the worm gear.I had to watch several times to detect it,though and it could be side to side play(end float) ATB Phil Edited November 21, 2022 by 34006 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WM183 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) Redacted Edited April 12, 2023 by WM183 Redacted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestag Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 6 hours ago, WM183 said: So all I need to know is the diameter of my worm? I apologize for being thick, but this is all newstuff to me, these gears and these terms. Yes the dia of your worm really should be all you need, that plus the diam of your motor shaft, which is 2 mm. Gears have pitch, which is the distance between teeth. I am as near certain that you have 100 dp gears as I can be. Dive in! Silence is close to hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted November 22, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2022 13 hours ago, 34006 said: Hi Amanda,to my (slightly less than) eagle eye,it does look as if there is a very very slight wobble in the worm gear.I had to watch several times to detect it,though and it could be side to side play(end float) ATB Phil I thought it had a wobble but I believe it might be when the grub screw is tightened on the axle it off centres the worm gear vertically (as the grub screw isn’t in the centre of the worm) a result of too tolerance between axle and worm, and there’s not much you can do about it. I have in the past used locktite instead of the grub screw but you risk then of having the worm centric ally off centre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted November 22, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2022 Have you ever considered Premier Components for their range of stuff for 7 mm. I have found their service and products are first class: https://www.premiercomponents.co.uk/pages/premier-components-motor-gear-boxes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted November 22, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said: Have you ever considered Premier Components for their range of stuff for 7 mm. I have found their service and products are first class: https://www.premiercomponents.co.uk/pages/premier-components-motor-gear-boxes Are they fold up etched or hopefully solid channelled construction? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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