Gill Head: Kirkby Luneside's neighbour

[Physicsman]

I know you're a big F1 fan, Andy, so I'd have thought the only chain you'd be aware of was "THE Chain" by Fleetwood Mac, used as the old theme tune. 

 

Good piece of music.

 

Sorry to confuse you with all the different units, my dear chap. I'll stick to fathoms and nautical miles in future! 

 

Jeff

Edited November 8, 2020 by Physicsman
Bl**dy spellchecker changing things

[Physicsman]

A few more pics. A few things HAVE changed, but please let me know if you'd rather I cut back on the number of photos.

 

Complete viaduct skeleton with all piers glued and screwed.

Piers broadened at the base to accommodate the future fascia ply.

The viaduct in its approximate (final - when completed) position.

 

Obviously, the PVA is still wet and white - and very conspicuous.

 

Jeff

 

 

 

 

[Physicsman]

Just had a thought, looking at that last pic....

 

The top of the skeleton viaduct is currently at around 96cm above floor level. Clearly, the viaduct will need to rise by about 13cm to be in line with the rail deck from the other boards.

 

All in good time..... Some of you will be expecting rail by the end of the week! 

 

Jeff

 

Ps. Just had a thought (happens occasionally). I could model the LANDSCAPE and not bother with the rail. Maybe Dr Beeching wielded his axe on the S&C in some parallel universe! Perversely, I'd enjoy the "layout" build almost as much.

[peach james]

I'm growning that one as an indication of it being a bad idea !  We demand track, even if singled, with a horrid Pacer as the passenger service, a single platform, with a bus shelter as the station !  Otherwise, the dozen residents of Gill Head will be irate at the governments inaction to care for their transportation needs.

>36000 saved the line.  And one dog...

 

[Andrew P]

11 hours ago, Physicsman said:

I know you're a big F1 fan, Andy, so I'd have thought the only chain you'd be aware of was "THE Chain" by Fleetwood Mac, used as the old theme tune. 

 

Good piece of music.

 

Sorry to confuse you with all the different units, my dear chap. I'll stick to fathoms and nautical miles in future! 

 

Jeff

The Skool teacher confused me by trying to tell me how many £ there were in cwt.

[Andrew P]

Keep the pics coming Jeff.

 

BTW, I thought you might do the pillars this way, with wood on the outside of the blocks for a smoother transition to the base.

[Physicsman]

3 hours ago, Andrew P said:

Keep the pics coming Jeff.

 

BTW, I thought you might do the pillars this way, with wood on the outside of the blocks for a smoother transition to the base.

 

Hi Andy.

 

The problem with a curved viaduct is that the rear of the pier is quite a bit wider than the front, in order to keep the arch width the same as the viaduct curves. So I'm initially just filling-in some of the "side space". When the fascias are fitted, the side space will then be filled - angles included - with filler to give a smooth surface.

 

I did something similar on the original KL  viaduct, around page 20 of that thread.

 

Jeff

[Joseph_Pestell]

The maths involved in creating a curved viaduct, even with a scale radius, are quite beyond me. I shall follow your build with great interest.

[Andrew P]

7 hours ago, Physicsman said:

 

Hi Andy.

 

The problem with a curved viaduct is that the rear of the pier is quite a bit wider than the front, in order to keep the arch width the same as the viaduct curves. So I'm initially just filling-in some of the "side space". When the fascias are fitted, the side space will then be filled - angles included - with filler to give a smooth surface.

 

I did something similar on the original KL  viaduct, around page 20 of that thread.

 

Jeff

I knew there would be a clever reason, but surprised it wasn't backed up by figures and calculation of curvature, angle and force on foundations, and prismic radieye from a metrological perspective.

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Andrew P

[Ramrig]

18 hours ago, Physicsman said:

A few more pics. A few things HAVE changed, but please let me know if you'd rather I cut back on the number of photos.

 

Jeff

 

 

Nooooo. Keep the pictures coming Jeff. Your work inspires the rest of us mere mortals. 

 

Steve

 

PS. still progressing building stone walls slowly, but very therapeutic after a days work and drive home.

[Donington Road]

20 hours ago, Physicsman said:

A few more pics. A few things HAVE changed, but please let me know if you'd rather I cut back on the number of photos.

 

 

 

As they say  "a picture is better than a thousand words"

But we want the words as well.

Keep going with the photos Jeff, they tell a story and a good one at that.

[BWsTrains]

21 hours ago, Physicsman said:

A few more pics. A few things HAVE changed, but please let me know if you'd rather I cut back on the number of photos.

Jeff

 

They're great. keep them coming  but what I would appreciate is a pointer to your "best" Fell photo. I spent a fair amount of time browsing KL2 yesterday but no joy other than some fleeting side views where it was not the main feature of the shot.

 

Colin

[Andrew P]

16 minutes ago, BWsTrains said:

Jeff

 

They're great. keep them coming  but what I would appreciate is a pointer to your "best" Fell photo. I spent a fair amount of time browsing KL2 yesterday but no joy other than some fleeting side views where it was not the main feature of the shot.

 

Colin

Hi Colin, This is the best shot I took from my visit in Nov 2013 of KL1, Is it really that long ago?

 

 

 

[Physicsman]

2 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

Jeff

 

They're great. keep them coming  but what I would appreciate is a pointer to your "best" Fell photo. I spent a fair amount of time browsing KL2 yesterday but no joy other than some fleeting side views where it was not the main feature of the shot.

 

Colin

 

Hi Colin.

 

It's very difficult to choose a specific image, so I've hedged my bets.....

 

My favourite collection on the KL2 thread dates from June 9, 2017 - page 168.

 

My favourite "part Fell" collection is from April 29, 2017 - page 163.

 

The best panoramic shot may be May 7, 2017 - page 164.

 

I've attached 3 of my favourite Fell pics - some of these may be in the posts mentioned above.

 

Jeff

 

 

 

 

[Physicsman]

2 hours ago, Andrew P said:

Hi Colin, This is the best shot I took from my visit in Nov 2013 of KL1, Is it really that long ago?

 

 

 

 

Yes, Andy - it REALLY was 7 years ago. A lot of experience has been gained since then, and a lot of layouts - especially yours - have come and gone in that time.

 

Good old "Lunefell" as AndyG used to refer to it.

 

All done with Woodland Scenics scatter. No static grass - again, things have come a long way since then.

 

Jeff

[BWsTrains]

Thanks Jeff,

 

Awesome, literally! Now I do get the scale of it.

 

Colin

Edited November 9, 2020 by BWsTrains

[Physicsman]

Thanks for all the interest on the thread today.

 

Re. the viaduct. Joseph is correct, the maths/geometry behind curved viaducts is complex. Fortunately, I use a little maths and a lot of help from the prototype. No need to invent it when it's stood in front of you.

 

As for pics. I get very self-conscious with some of the stuff I put on here. I really hate the "look at me" - and "look at what I've done" attitudes. I post on here because it's clear that a lot of you like to see what I've been doing. I also know that I've learned a lot from looking at what others have done.

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

It's been a busy day.

 

I now have power, sockets, lighting in the new observatory, so the main telescope will be moving-in in the next couple of weeks.

 

I also spent a very pleasant few hours messing around with the position of the viaduct and then starting to mark out the position of track on the boards. Digging out the EM turnouts I saved from KL2 was useful in this task.

 

One of the pics shows the viaduct positioned using temporary under-blocks, so I could work out an acceptable linking curve to the boards at the viaduct left side. It turns out that the viaduct has been raised about 9cm. Looking at the Fell photos I've dug out for Colin, I'm determined to swamp the viaduct with similar - though as close as I can manage to the prototype.

 

One "saving grace" re. covering it with stones is that about 35% of the structure is actually hidden by the surrounding landscape. A new stone jig will definitely be necessary as some of the stone blocks in the piers are 2 foot tall - much bigger than anything in my stone walls. All to be worked out, and discussed, when we get there.

 

Jeff

 

 

[BWsTrains]

Jeff,

 

on 28 Aug I emailed you pics of the modified DAS jig I set up which I found avoided the need for plastic film. Simple mod to make the sides removable which should help when working with bigger blocks. I'll write it up and post on my blog in a day or so.

 

After 2 ft blocks next project, a pyramid perhaps?

 

Colin

[Sasquatch]

On 09/11/2020 at 05:30, Physicsman said:

 

Hi Andy.

 

The problem with a curved viaduct is that the rear of the pier is quite a bit wider than the front, in order to keep the arch width the same as the viaduct curves.

 

Jeff

 

On 09/11/2020 at 05:35, Joseph_Pestell said:

The maths involved in creating a curved viaduct, even with a scale radius, are quite beyond me. I shall follow your build with great interest.

 

On 09/11/2020 at 06:21, Andrew P said:

I knew there would be a clever reason, but surprised it wasn't backed up by figures and calculation of curvature, angle and force on foundations, and prismic radieye from a metrological perspective.

 

No complicated math is needed.

 Work out how big the archway is to be. Aesthetically the pier should be one third the width of the arch. Lets say the inside of the curve is 1M and you want 8 arches.

That will be 8arches and 9 piers. 8 times 3 plus 9. is 33, into 1000 equals 30. each archway will be 90mm and the front of each pier 30. Make a square section 90mm wide from card and mark out the viaduct seat at 30mm intervals along the inside of the curve. This will leave you with the sizes of the piers. Any discrepancy can be taken up in the abutment walls at each end.

 

Sorry no imperial conversion.

Shaun

Edited November 10, 2020 by Sasquatch

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Good afternoon Jeff.

Just found your thread and read through it all.

 

Very impressive, though I think you made a basic error in the colour of the flooring; should've been crimson lake surely?

 

Been self-isolating for a fortnight, but back to school tomorrow. Hope the car starts...

No fiddle yard? No problem. Think you've got your priorities right there.

 

Stay safe etc etc
Peter

[Andrew P]

Now this is what you call a Fell and Viaduct Jeff .  I made the Viaduct for our Gresley Club Layout with @PeterBB and others doing the Fell, but I never finished the Viaduct before I left the Club.

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Andrew P

[Physicsman]

Fair enough, Shaun.

 

There are 2 related problems to this.

 

The S&C viaduct builders saw fit to vary the arch width on some of their constructions. I'll be starting to draw out the arch fascia in the next couple of days and I'll sketch out a diagram showing the values for Arten Gill, AS MEASURED BY ME.

 

The pier widths are identical front and rear on a non-curved viaduct, but wider on one side of a curved one. The size of the larger, East side of the piers on Seven Gill, were calculated by using simple geometry with "similar angles".

 

For most people these issues will be of no interest. For those of us who like building these kind of things it's all a lot of fun.

 

As I said elsewhere, the availability of vast numbers of images of these structures makes the actual calculation of most dimensions to be unecessary.

 

Jeff

 

[Sasquatch]

Quite envious that I can't do any layout construction of my own at the moment. This elbow problem is really holding everything up.  Am enjoying watching things take shape on here though, helps maintain sanity!

 

Shaun

 

[Sasquatch]

2 hours ago, Andrew P said:

Now this is what you call a Fell and Viaduct Jeff .  I made the Viaduct for our Gresley Club Layout with @PeterBB and others doing the Fell, but I never finished the Viaduct before I left the Club.

 

 

 

Thanks for posting the video Andy. Most enjoyable! Lovely viaduct too, you cant beat model trains on viaducts!!