Theft of Amazon deliveries

[Steven B]

Mmmm, stopping drunken assaults, attempting to stop vulnerable children being caught up in county lines drug dealing or investigating an Amazon parcel being nicked.

 

In an ideal world all three would be priorities for the police. Given we don't live in an ideal world I'm quite glad they worry less about my Amazon deliveries. A conspiracy theorist could have a field day - pay less tax than many feel you should and theft of your product isn't a big priority.

 

Steven B.

[phil-b259]

7 minutes ago, Fenman said:

 

No organisation that I'm aware of has enough resources to do everything they want. So they have to make choices.

 

In my part of the world, rural Norfolk, the police have decided their priority is to deal with the War on Drugs, and policing of young people out on the lash on Friday and Saturday nights who then start beating each other up. Despite the police using tax-payers' money to plaster every one of their vehicles with the fatuous slogan "our priority is you", it turns out when you contact them that their priority is invariably someone else. My disabled, widowed mother, in her late 80s and living on her own, had a gang of yobs break into her back garden and then start larking about. Great fun for them, terrifying for her. She phoned the police. The only question was "are they throwing eggs? Because if not, we can't come".

 

My priorities would be different: people getting bladdered and behaving badly with each other strikes me as a self-limiting problem. The War on Drugs strikes me as a self-created problem which could be solved at a stroke by decriminalising and treating it as the public health problem it is. And it would offer loads of replacement "sin taxes" for the Treasury, which would be welcome at the moment.

 

But the absence of visible community policing (all done for the best reasons of management school efficiency) leads to a fear of crime among, especially, older people which in turn leads to them locking themselves away in their houses. That's a pretty grim outcome for a supposedly caring society.

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

Except those 'bladdered people' will quite often either damage property or need medical attention. Both are things people would much rather didn't happen so the Police are obliged to try and control it.

 

Similarly those taking drugs normally end up addicted to them - which then means they have trouble holding down jobs or ending up needing the help of the NHS to try and get them off them. Again the object of the Police is to prevent trouble further down the line.

 

However some of those things are self inflicted by Governmental policies designed to remove 'unnecessary barriers to trade' and encourage competition. Cheap supermarket booze for example means many get tanked up before they even set off out of the house while the introduction of late licences simply allows more drinking time.

[Fenman]

3 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

...

Similarly those taking drugs normally end up addicted to them - which then means they have trouble holding down jobs or ending up needing the help of the NHS to try and get them off them. Again the object of the Police is to prevent trouble further down the line.

...

 

Which is why it's a public health problem -- and was always treated as such in the UK, until we caved-in to US pressure after WW2 and joined their Prohibition-inspired, criminalising approach. Which, after 70 years, doesn't seem to have worked terribly well and, as someone else has pointed out, has now even succeeded in dragging children into its maw with County Lines. It's a failed policy which demonstrably has caused more evil than it's prevented. Only a fool or a madman would keep pursuing it in the hope of achieving a different outcome.

 

Paul

 

[Talltim]

When my bike got stolen the police had recovered before I knew it was gone. 20 minute visit to the police station and I got it back. Thumbs up BTP!

[phil-b259]

11 minutes ago, Talltim said:

When my bike got stolen the police had recovered before I knew it was gone. 20 minute visit to the police station and I got it back. Thumbs up BTP!

The BTP normally have a presence at major stations and are usually in a position to take immediate action.

 

If however its outside a station where they do not have a presence or its deemed to be the responsibility of the county constabulary then other priorities will usually mean nothing is done.

[phil-b259]

18 minutes ago, Fenman said:

 

Which is why it's a public health problem -- and was always treated as such in the UK, until we caved-in to US pressure after WW2 and joined their Prohibition-inspired, criminalising approach. Which, after 70 years, doesn't seem to have worked terribly well and, as someone else has pointed out, has now even succeeded in dragging children into its maw with County Lines. It's a failed policy which demonstrably has caused more evil than it's prevented. Only a fool or a madman would keep pursuing it in the hope of achieving a different outcome.

 

Paul

 

 

 

As interesting at that debate is - its not going to materially affect the situation on the ground in the coming years. The Police have to reflect what their overseers in Government tell them is priority while still keeping within budget, and recovering stolen property / arresting those engaged in 'minor' thefts is quite low on that list.

 

Also given no mainstream political party is proposing any change to the current setup regarding drugs it seems inevitable that we need more money spent on law enforcement. That usually plays well with voters anyway...

Edited November 27, 2020 by phil-b259

[Fenman]

1 minute ago, phil-b259 said:

...

Also no mainstream political party is proposing any change to the current setup so it seems inevitable that we need more money spent on law enforcement. That usually plays well with voters anyway...

 

Defunding the police seems to be gaining traction in some places (more the US, of course), and the Youtube videos (again, US) show either vigilante action or people taking responsibility for their own neighbourhoods -- delete according to political taste.

 

If the police have decided their priority is not, in fact, you, it's tricky to argue that the state should retain its policing monopoly and you should not be allowed to provide for your own security.  Gated communities will expand, with more private security, and more polarisation of society... Not sure that's going to end well.

 

Paul

[gordon s]

I really don’t want this to become a political discussion, but I have some fond first hand memories of the Police as my father came out of the Navy and joined the Police in 1954. In his words it was the best job ever, so I was brought up with a local Bobby on the beat, who then went to Hendon and had his Velocette Silver Ghost through to Station Sergeant and retirement.

 

Of course in those days the population was much smaller, the Police commanded respect, the local Bobbies knew most on their beat and life was different. There were no drugs, little mobility and most youngsters who stepped out of line were often were treated to a few words or a clip round the ear.

 

Crime was generally low level and dealt with. Today, they have no chance of dealing with low level crime as everything in life has gone up 20 notches. Numbers of people and the ease and returns of organised crime means 10 times the personnel still couldn’t deal with it. Add to that regulations and potential litigation and low level crime is always going to be ignored. Sadly it’s low level crime that impacts most of us, but it’s high level crime that get’s the news and attention.

 

There is no answer, so most of us just have to be careful and just accept that’s the way it is.......

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by gordon s

[Night Train]

[KeithMacdonald]

9 hours ago, jchinuk said:

The current (in the UK) system of contactless delivery really facilitates, as the drivers (often on a tight schedule) does not need to knock or ring the bell.

 

I do sympathise, and I appreciate there are some delivery/courier firms with a consistently poor track record. I too had my (un)fair share of the frustration of finding "could not deliver" cards left on the doormat when we've been home all day waiting for the deliveries. It may be pot-luck on the firm and the depot nearest, but it was usually the usual suspects. Would it be unfair of me to name and shame? Yodel and Hermes.

 

Some might say there are similarities to the experiences some of us have posted over in the eBay thread, of some things being sent to people who then said they'd not received or complained about what they'd received.

 

More recently, however, #1 Daughter had a job driving an Amazon delivery van for six months, during lockdown, and shared her experiences from the "other side of the front door".

 

There are many different courier firms being used by Amazon across the UK. Although each is contracted to Amazon, they will have their own policies, procedures and attitudes. Locally (near us), there are seven different courier firms being used by Amazon to despatch from the nearest Amazon mega-distribution centre. For security, each has an exclusive one-hour slot for collections. With the firm she was driving for, they have a strict policy. Every delivery has to be signed-for, if possible, but of course many people are not home at the time. That's why the driver has to take a picture of each parcel in a recognisable position at each and every delivery location, so that there is proof of delivery.

 

Did my daughter do well? (I hear you ask)

Yes she did! 

(insert Proud Dad icon here)

 

In the whole of the six months, usually delivering 100+ parcels a day, the firm she was driving for only received four complaints (involving her) that a parcel hadn't been delivered. Miraculously, as soon as the photo evidence was offered, three of the four recipients found the stray parcels. Only one parcel in all that time was a genuine "gone missing / been nicked". Her managers were quite open that this mattered a lot to them, as "failed deliveries" is a key performance measure every time Amazon reviewed their contract, and the worst courier firms are getting weeded-out.

 

Even if you are then at the mercy of thieving scrots roaming the district. But the good news is that those kinds of hot-spots are being recognised and measures taken to reduce the risks.

[Kris]

Since Amazon have started using their own delivery service more and more the standard of delivery has gone through the floor (about 6-8 months ago at my address). Items lost in transit 2, items delayed 10 - 12. Deliveries attempted and failed whilst there were people in the house 6, including one yesterday, items delivered correctly 20-25. Prior to this the various delivery companies that were used did far better. I had never had items lost, delayed items were maybe 1 in 20 and failed deliveries were non existent (mostly because the drivers read the instruction as to where to leave parcels in a secure location. 

[jchinuk]

12 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

I do sympathise, and I appreciate there are some delivery/courier firms with a consistently poor track record. I too had my (un)fair share of the frustration of finding "could not deliver" cards left on the doormat when we've been home all day waiting for the deliveries. It may be pot-luck on the firm and the depot nearest, but it was usually the usual suspects. Would it be unfair of me to name and shame? Yodel and Hermes.

 

Some might say there are similarities to the experiences some of us have posted over in the eBay thread, of some things being sent to people who then said they'd not received or complained about what they'd received.

 

More recently, however, #1 Daughter had a job driving an Amazon delivery van for six months, during lockdown, and shared her experiences from the "other side of the front door".

 

There are many different courier firms being used by Amazon across the UK. Although each is contracted to Amazon, they will have their own policies, procedures and attitudes. Locally (near us), there are seven different courier firms being used by Amazon to despatch from the nearest Amazon mega-distribution centre. For security, each has an exclusive one-hour slot for collections. With the firm she was driving for, they have a strict policy. Every delivery has to be signed-for, if possible, but of course many people are not home at the time. That's why the driver has to take a picture of each parcel in a recognisable position at each and every delivery location, so that there is proof of delivery.

 

Did my daughter do well? (I hear you ask)

Yes she did! 

(insert Proud Dad icon here)

 

In the whole of the six months, usually delivering 100+ parcels a day, the firm she was driving for only received four complaints (involving her) that a parcel hadn't been delivered. Miraculously, as soon as the photo evidence was offered, three of the four recipients found the stray parcels. Only one parcel in all that time was a genuine "gone missing / been nicked". Her managers were quite open that this mattered a lot to them, as "failed deliveries" is a key performance measure every time Amazon reviewed their contract, and the worst courier firms are getting weeded-out.

 

Even if you are then at the mercy of thieving scrots roaming the district. But the good news is that those kinds of hot-spots are being recognised and measures taken to reduce the risks.

 

Personally I feel that the drivers are the most secure aspect of the system, the Hermes driver across the summer was a London cabbie unable to work as a cabbie.  You confirm a suspicion of mine that some parcel recipients are happy to try and game the system to their advantage. 

 

I hope the rise in CCTV and Ring doorbells (which record those approaching the door) will deter those cruising the area for parcels.

 

jch

[hayfield]

31 minutes ago, Kris said:

Since Amazon have started using their own delivery service more and more the standard of delivery has gone through the floor (about 6-8 months ago at my address). Items lost in transit 2, items delayed 10 - 12. Deliveries attempted and failed whilst there were people in the house 6, including one yesterday, items delivered correctly 20-25. Prior to this the various delivery companies that were used did far better. I had never had items lost, delayed items were maybe 1 in 20 and failed deliveries were non existent (mostly because the drivers read the instruction as to where to leave parcels in a secure location. 

 

Sounds like you are buying far too much from Amazon

[phil-b259]

3 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Sounds like you are buying far too much from Amazon

 

To be fair, given we are told not to go out if at all possible and work from home, the ability of Amazon to offer a 'one stop' online shopping site means you could easily end up receiving lots of things from them in a short space of time.

[jchinuk]

16 hours ago, Fenman said:

 

Defunding the police seems to be gaining traction in some places (more the US, of course), and the Youtube videos (again, US) show either vigilante action or people taking responsibility for their own neighbourhoods -- delete according to political taste.

 

If the police have decided their priority is not, in fact, you, it's tricky to argue that the state should retain its policing monopoly and you should not be allowed to provide for your own security.  Gated communities will expand, with more private security, and more polarisation of society... Not sure that's going to end well.

 

Paul

 

Defunding the police in the US is a complicated issue, US police departments seem to waste a lot of cash on toys which actually contribute nothing to the security of the local population,

 

 

Mine resistant?  Really?

 

 

 

 

Some UK forces have 'armoured' vehicles, but these are reserved for areas like London where terrorist incidents are considered more likely.  But these ex-military vehicles are common in the US, often in places where incidents and crime are rare, voters (remember many positions are elected) are scared into supporting such measures.

 

jch

 

[Oldddudders]

7 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Sounds like you are buying far too much from Amazon

I think in lockdown Amazon has been seen as a lifeline to sanity by many people. 

[gordon s]

I have no issue with Amazon at all and they are my preferred supplier for almost everything other than food, clothes and technical parts etc. Deliveries have always been reliable. What's bugged me is coming face to face with a scrote who had nicked a package in broad daylight from one of my neighbours and then being virtually powerless to do anything about it.

[hayfield]

I must own up to buying one item, the wife probably about 5. As you say all Christmas presents. But I may have been mistaken but it seemed purchases over quite a time and only quoting things which have gone missing, not ordered

 

During lockdown with the exception of DIY (part of a 3 year house refurbishment) we have spent much less than usual though this might be an age thing. Nearly all of my model railway purchases have been self funding, by selling unwanted items which are taking up space 

[hayfield]

4 hours ago, gordon s said:

I have no issue with Amazon at all and they are my preferred supplier for almost everything other than food, clothes and technical parts etc. Deliveries have always been reliable. What's bugged me is coming face to face with a scrote who had nicked a package in broad daylight from one of my neighbours and then being virtually powerless to do anything about it.

 

Goes with both age and the fact of self preservation. Even shops have in most cases stopped chasing after shop lifters, life is too precious items can easily be replaced 

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by hayfield

[Kris]

24 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Sounds like you are buying far too much from Amazon

I agree but for shear ease particularly during a lockdown when you could not get to shops it was ideal. It also works by allowing me to access smaller shops that use the market place. 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Kris said:

Since Amazon have started using their own delivery service more and more the standard of delivery has gone through the floor (about 6-8 months ago at my address). Items lost in transit 2, items delayed 10 - 12. Deliveries attempted and failed whilst there were people in the house 6, including one yesterday, items delivered correctly 20-25. Prior to this the various delivery companies that were used did far better. I had never had items lost, delayed items were maybe 1 in 20 and failed deliveries were non existent (mostly because the drivers read the instruction as to where to leave parcels in a secure location. 

Never had a problem with Amazon

No lost parcels

Parcels always come within projected time frame

Parcels are always left inside a porch with a door where they can't be seen

 

More than can be said for Royal Mail who have managed to lose parcels and not track parcels where it has been paid for etc.

I received an item yesterday that was sent last monday tracked 48 (non-tracked 120 more like)

 

 

 

[hayfield]

38 minutes ago, Kris said:

I agree but for shear ease particularly during a lockdown when you could not get to shops it was ideal. It also works by allowing me to access smaller shops that use the market place. 

 

I am equally as bad with eBay, looking for that long ceased production item, or expensive parts ant knock down prices

 

2 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Never had a problem with Amazon

No lost parcels

Parcels always come within projected time frame

Parcels are always left inside a porch with a door where they can't be seen

 

More than can be said for Royal Mail who have managed to lose parcels and not track parcels where it has been paid for etc.

I received an item yesterday that was sent last monday tracked 48 (non-tracked 120 more like)

 

 

 

 

I am waiting for 2 packs of items sent on the 23rd and 24th respectively, but if the postage was bought from eBay there is no telling when it is put into the postal system, eBay marks it as sent but its only postage bought!!. Plus I guess as black friday is now the week running up to black friday there are delays. The one and only Amazon Prime purchase rather than being next day is a 48 hour delivery

 

Also this morning our neighbour delivered a parcel for my wife they received in error late last night delivered by Hermes !!! Still at least they got the road correct this time, if not the house !!!

[Fat Controller]

26 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

I am equally as bad with eBay, looking for that long ceased production item, or expensive parts ant knock down prices

 

 

I am waiting for 2 packs of items sent on the 23rd and 24th respectively, but if the postage was bought from eBay there is no telling when it is put into the postal system, eBay marks it as sent but its only postage bought!!. Plus I guess as black friday is now the week running up to black friday there are delays. The one and only Amazon Prime purchase rather than being next day is a 48 hour delivery

 

Also this morning our neighbour delivered a parcel for my wife they received in error late last night delivered by Hermes !!! Still at least they got the road correct this time, if not the house !!!

I believe that Hermes are experimenting with a van-mounted trebuchet, to allow them to scatter packages further afield...

[teaky]

As a slight aside, if anyone hasn't seen it I recommend the film 'Sorry we missed you' by Ken Loach.

[phil-b259]

43 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Never had a problem with Amazon

No lost parcels

Parcels always come within projected time frame

Parcels are always left inside a porch with a door where they can't be seen

 

More than can be said for Royal Mail who have managed to lose parcels and not track parcels where it has been paid for etc.

I received an item yesterday that was sent last monday tracked 48 (non-tracked 120 more like)

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

I believe that Hermes are experimenting with a van-mounted trebuchet, to allow them to scatter packages further afield...

 

We have had this discussion before - with parcel / post services an awful lot depends on where you live (and the people employed).

 

Personally I have never had an issue with My Hermes, their deliveries are put in a safe place hidden from view 100% of the time. Royal mail, DPD are also excellent. On the other hand i have had stuff from Youdle and Amazons couriers just dumped in plain view before despite there being an obvious safe place to put the stuff right in front of them.

 

My brother on the other hand had nothing good to say about Royal Mails Streatham operation, their ability to lose stuff seemed to be the norm rather than the exception.....