RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted February 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2021 6 minutes ago, Hobby said: I just wish people could leave the investigation to those who are investigating it and (hopefully) know what they are looking for... No......if they do that I’ll have to stop selling tin foil hats on EBay. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, hayfield said: Paul This is the exact reason why the truth needs to be found out so that we might be able to either stop a similar thing happening or react very much quicker. That is such a noble sentiment and, of course, you are completely right. I’m absolutely convinced — and I think it’s true to say that no sane human, seeing all the known facts, could think otherwise — that it was my Great Aunty Violet who was responsible. She’s always been interested in experimental cooking, and she went on a tour to the Great Wall of China just over a year ago. She’d have had plenty of opportunity to plant her evil virus. Right, let’s stop this ever happening again — we need to form a mob. Now, who’s got the pitchforks...? Paul 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 This link was just posted in another thread. “Read and inwardly digest.” As one of our college lecturers used to say . https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted February 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Hobby said: I just wish people could leave the investigation to those who are investigating it and (hopefully) know what they are looking for... I'd rather have people coming up with irritating insane theories than have a general "shut up and leave the thinking to those in charge and then accept whatever they say." 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Nearholmer said: This link was just posted in another thread. “Read and inwardly digest.” As one of our college lecturers used to say . https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect Shouldn't it be "Read, learn and inwardly digest"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted February 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2021 2 hours ago, hayfield said: One point you fail to answer is why was it first noticed in Wuhan and not the region the infected mammal came from ? No doubt we will find out in time, but the same thing happened with SARS 1. Later research showed that in the region where the bats lived around 3% (IIRC) of the population had SARS 1 antibodies although there had been no reported cases. Is it possible that with semi-permanent contact with the bats in their area they have built up a "natural" immunity? I don't know. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Hobby said: I just wish people could leave the investigation to those who are investigating it and (hopefully) know what they are looking for... Or just let the Chinese state-controlled media tell you what you must believe. 3 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 9 minutes ago, Hroth said: Shouldn't it be "Read, learn and inwardly digest"? If you want to be pedantic: read, mark, learn and inwardly digest. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Reorte said: I'd rather have people coming up with irritating insane theories than have a general "shut up and leave the thinking to those in charge and then accept whatever they say." Does that include the RAIB or should we question their findings as well? Unfortunately it also means that gullible people are taken in by those insane theories so I rather people shut up. Perhaps a bit strong but if people gave us reasoned arguments and provided proof then it'd be better...There's been several plausible theories put forward (wet market and locla lab both appear reasonable), we shall see in due course. We will also certainly find out how much the WHO are in hoc to the Chinese after this, anyhow... Edited February 8, 2021 by Hobby 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 22 minutes ago, EddieB said: Or just let the Chinese state-controlled media tell you what you must believe. Let's wait and see, eh... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted February 8, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2021 关于中国共产党写我的文章的谣言是没有道理的。 他们非常值得信赖... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted February 8, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2021 10 minutes ago, Hobby said: Does that include the RAIB or should we question their findings as well? Unfortunately it also means that gullible people are taken in by those insane theories so I rather people shut up. 33 minutes ago, EddieB said: Or just let the Chinese state-controlled media tell you what you must believe. I'll see your Chinese theory and raise you a rather large country over the Atlantic. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted February 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Hobby said: Does that include the RAIB or should we question their findings as well? Unfortunately it also means that gullible people are taken in by those insane theories so I rather people shut up. Perhaps a bit strong but if people gave us reasoned arguments and provided proof then it'd be better...There's been several plausible theories put forward (wet market and locla lab both appear reasonable), we shall see in due course. We will also certainly find out how much the WHO are in hoc to the Chinese after this, anyhow... I have no problem with people speculating and questioning anything and everything, just as long as it doesn't interfere with the offical investigation. The more you do that the more you learn. What's the alternative, anything under discussion in the news is off limits? Know your place, don't question your betters? Human beings are supposedly intelligent and curious creatures, it's in our nature to speculate. That's what got us out of caves. It's a fundamental part of us, and the more we do it the better we get at it; those who'll never say anything and meekly accept are coming from the same place as those who latch on to a crackpot theory, they're just picking different sources to accept without question. And the latter might be rather less prone to it if they'd been brought up to think and understand more, which can only be done by encouraging questioning and pondering. Asking for proof (or at least convincing reasons to give the idea the time of day) is good, that's exactly the right way to go about it. I'm all for encouraging thinking and rational deduction over trying to stifle it because Someone Else Knows Better. Edited February 8, 2021 by Reorte 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Hroth said: Shouldn't it be "Read, learn and inwardly digest"? It’s too late to tell our lecturer that now, I fear. He’d be about 110yo, and it seems unlikely that he would have achieved that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 The good thing about us humans is that we can form and test hypotheses, turn evidence over in our minds, spot gaps, etc. The often less helpful thing about us human beings is that we are highly evolved pattern-spotters, so we can see pictures of hippopotami in the clouds, faces of devils in the movement of falling snowflakes. And, worst of all, we have really creative imaginations, which is back to the first point. Takes a bit of care to pick your way through our evolutionary baggage and know which bits to use purely for entertainment, and which for serious purposes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted February 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: Takes a bit of care to pick your way through our evolutionary baggage and know which bits to use purely for entertainment, and which for serious purposes. That's very true, so I'd saythe more we practice doing that the better we'll become at it, and if we limit our attempts to only entertainment or those examples where we're personally involved we won't have had much practice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 As they said to the man at the edge of a cliff: be careful about leaping to your own conclusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted February 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: As they said to the man at the edge of a cliff: be careful about leaping to your own conclusion. Which is why it's good to practice doing the opposite. And there's a time and place for leaping to conclusions too - raging torrent in front of you that you might be able to jump across, charging bear behind you - I'll leap to the conclusion that it might well be charging at me! When and where it's necessary and when and where it isn't is another skill to be learned through practice. Edited February 8, 2021 by Reorte 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted February 8, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2021 46 minutes ago, Hobby said: Let's wait and see, eh... My son is only a few miles from Wuhan and has been since well before this all kicked off (in any country). Anyone who seriously believes the CCP are going to be completely transparent in the WHO investigation needs their bumps feeling. 6 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, beast66606 said: Anyone who seriously believes the CCP are going to be completely transparent in the WHO investigation And, why should they? As I said before, the world is pointing a big fat finger at them and standing by to give them a whacking. Unless complete transparency completely exonerated them, what do they have to gain from it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, EddieB said: If you want to be pedantic: read, mark, learn and inwardly digest. Its amazing how bits drop off... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Just now, Hroth said: Its amazing how bits drop off... Leprosy of the mind? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted February 8, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2021 24 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: And, why should they? Let me think ... It's not like a pandemic which has killed millions originated in their country, so wouldn't be that. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 (edited) Except of course that, keeping an open mind, it may not have, and even if they strongly suspect, or even know for sure, that it did ...... I’ll rephrase the question: how would it be in their interest to be completely transparent, unless doing so completely exonerates them? Not a moral question, a purely practical one. If they fear that the penalty for complete transparency might be greater than the penalty for ‘minor cloudiness’, it might be in their interests to be slightly cloudy. Any country would be weighing up those thoughts under the circumstances. Imagine a water-vole-originated deadly virus emerging in Salisbury. How do you think the mental cogs of HMG might be turning when WHO rocks-up and asks to go over any nearby laboratories with a fine-tooth comb? Edited February 8, 2021 by Nearholmer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Nearholmer said: The good thing about us humans is that we can form and test hypotheses, turn evidence over in our minds, spot gaps, etc. To quote Douglas Adams: “Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.” 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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