RMweb Premium njee20 Posted December 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 18, 2020 Wayne's not used 3D printing before in N gauge though, and he's said it's a blend of multiple resins he's using, so I'd not fancy the chances at being able to say with any real conviction. Again though, I wouldn't foresee it being an issue. Painting it may be a good idea, as that'll stop UV related degredation. Unpainted in a garden may be the biggest issue - a lot of 3D resins go brittle under continued UV exposure. All of those other suppliers are using injection moulding, which is a known quantity. It's a perfectly valid concern, given people may well expect track to last decades. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 7 minutes ago, Godders said: I would have thought the question of life expectancy, would be known to, "FinetraX", as they have been manufacturing for many years, in N gauge. In addition the supplier of the plastic for printing will probably, also have a predicted or actual life expectancy. Do people always ask this question, as I don't remember anyone asking the life expectancy of; Peco, Hornby, Bachmann, Dapol, Accurascale or any other of the myriads of suppliers. Indeed, does anyone ask how long their house is going to stand or their car going to last. When plastics first came on the market life expectancy had never been thought as an issue, some plastics last longer than others. Now we know more I think it is a good question 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Wayne Kinney Posted December 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 18, 2020 (edited) The blend of resins I have used are not standard off the shelf resins, they are specialty resins, each designed to add the desired properties. Then pigments designed for use with UV resin is added. The resins are not 'hobbyist' resins, they are very expensive sold in 5KG bottles minimum. One of the resins in the mix adds flexibility and reduces brittleness. They are also post UV cured for a few hours to stabilise the material. Standard 'home use' hobbyist UV resin is extremely brittle and could not be used. Almost as bad as Shapeways 'Frosted Detail' resin material. This is brittle as hell, although I see some 0 Gauge track pieces sold on there made from this. I know for sure, you wouldn't be able to do this with standard resins: Have I done a 5 year test on them? Of course not! But I have done my research understanding the resin properties and come up with a material that I believe is most suitable. Thanks, Wayne. Edited December 18, 2020 by Wayne Kinney 21 1 3 6 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godders Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 "Wayne's not used 3D printing before in N gauge though, and he's said it's a blend of multiple resins he's using, so I'd not fancy the chances at being able to say with any real conviction. Again though, I wouldn't foresee it being an issue. Painting it may be a good idea, as that'll stop UV related degredation. Unpainted in a garden may be the biggest issue - a lot of 3D resins go brittle under continued UV exposure." Painting may well slow down UV related degradation but if you don't know what the material is, how can you possibly apply the appropriate paint finish to it. Painting it may be the worst thing you can do. "All of those other suppliers are using injection moulding, which is a known quantity. It's a perfectly valid concern, given people may well expect track to last decades." They may well be using injection moulding but it is not a known quantity, it varies in quality very much. "When plastics first came on the market life expectancy had never been thought as an issue, some plastics last longer than others. Now we know more I think it is a good question " It may well be a "good" question but given the above statements, how is he supposed to give a "good" answer. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4railsman Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 After this 4mm range of point kits is finally on the market, will it be possible for O-gauge Finescale point kits to be produced from the same designs by just adjusting the image sizes in a similar way to when we print out on our home printers? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Kinney Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, 4railsman said: After this 4mm range of point kits is finally on the market, will it be possible for O-gauge Finescale point kits to be produced from the same designs by just adjusting the image sizes in a similar way to when we print out on our home printers? It's completely possible, I might have my hands full with the 4mm stuff for a while, though 1 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted December 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Godders said: "Wayne's not used 3D printing before in N gauge though, and he's said it's a blend of multiple resins he's using, so I'd not fancy the chances at being able to say with any real conviction. Again though, I wouldn't foresee it being an issue. Painting it may be a good idea, as that'll stop UV related degredation. Unpainted in a garden may be the biggest issue - a lot of 3D resins go brittle under continued UV exposure." Painting may well slow down UV related degradation but if you don't know what the material is, how can you possibly apply the appropriate paint finish to it. Painting it may be the worst thing you can do. "All of those other suppliers are using injection moulding, which is a known quantity. It's a perfectly valid concern, given people may well expect track to last decades." They may well be using injection moulding but it is not a known quantity, it varies in quality very much. "When plastics first came on the market life expectancy had never been thought as an issue, some plastics last longer than others. Now we know more I think it is a good question " It may well be a "good" question but given the above statements, how is he supposed to give a "good" answer. I really wasn't looking to have an argument on it, point is that Peco have been making track for, what, 50+ years, so that's why people didn't say "how long will this last?" when they released their new bullhead track. New entrants like Accurascale are still using production techniques with a long established lineage, and to that end it's a known quantity. That's not to say you can't do injection moulding badly. I'm sure if Hornby decided they were going to start offering their new models as 3D prints people would rightly question it. To that end, that's very different becuase no one has long term experience of 3D printed resins hence valid concerns about it's longevity, and I'll eat my hat if any of the companies say "this will last 20 years with no degredataion". But again, I'm sure Wayne's done his homework, and his mitigated that as much as possible. I'd pull him up slightly on hobbyist resins being brittle though, as you can absolutely get resins for home printing with bags of flex. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Kinney Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, njee20 said: I'd pull him up slightly on hobbyist resins being brittle though, as you can absolutely get resins for home printing with bags of flex. I know, I've tried them all. The problem I found with them is that they have a different 'flex to brittleness' ratio, for want of a better description. You need to add so much so that it's not brittle, that it becomes too flexible to the point the rail can flop around in the chairs... Not good. Add less and its too brittle again. Edited December 18, 2020 by Wayne Kinney 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godders Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Hi njee20 This is not an argument, it is a discussion. I have no intention of upsetting anyone. I don't know Wayne only studied his products, past and present. My hope is that his products will work fine and by what he has produced so far, I think they will. If I was still working in the petrochem industry, I would be asking many more rigorous questions. However this is a hobby and this guy is trying to produce much needed products at very acceptable prices. I want him to continue and be successful and I don't think this is the time to question certain aspects of what he is doing. All the best Godders PS I also live in (West) Sussex 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted December 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 18, 2020 6 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said: I know, I've tried them all. The problem I found with them is that they have a different 'flex to brittleness' ratio, for want of a better description. You need to add so much so that it's not brittle, that it becomes too flexible to the point the rail can flop around in the chairs... Not good. Add less and its too brittle again. Yes, very true, they tend to move into a state of plastic deformation, rather than the elastic you’d need. I think it’s a great application of the technology, I wonder if you could extend it to enable actual curved bases or custom formations - as you’re presumably just templating the chairs. The base could just be extruded from a DXF file or something? The whole rapid prototyping of 3D printing has huge potential there! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted December 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Godders said: Do people always ask this question, as I don't remember anyone asking the life expectancy of; Peco, Hornby, Bachmann, Dapol, Accurascale or any other of the myriads of suppliers. Indeed, does anyone ask how long their house is going to stand or their car going to last. The likes of Peco etc. have been on the market for an awful long time so have known characteristics. However, even that can change; an example being Dapol going over to (IIRC) recycled plastics for the kit range such as the ex-Kitmaster Deltic kit - I understand (in fairness, only due to having read it on the web) that this often leads to some distortion of parts that need straightening by the buyer prior to use. 2 hours ago, Wayne Kinney said: I see a challenge approaching....who'll be the first to get a loco and carriages doing the loop? Brings back memories of my old Matchbox Track back in the 70's..... And finally, many thanks to Wayne for the explanation regarding resins etc. 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted December 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 19, 2020 17 hours ago, polybear said: an example being Dapol going over to (IIRC) recycled plastics for the kit range such as the ex-Kitmaster Deltic kit - I understand (in fairness, only due to having read it on the web) that this often leads to some distortion of parts that need straightening by the buyer prior to use. Back in the day Lima used recycled plastic in some of their models, it being very brittle, seemingly randomly though, as some models were OK and some weren't. I don't think Wayne is going to be having the Dapol issue of using moulds from a prehistoric era though! Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHC Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 It’s like most things in life as more and more people get into 3D printing the better the resins/plastics become. What was once an industrial grade becomes available to the individual. BASF now do a fillament so that you print in steel. It’s about €600 for a 1kg roll. Keith 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve45 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said: Back in the day Lima used recycled plastic in some of their models, it being very brittle, seemingly randomly though, as some models were OK and some weren't. I don't think Wayne is going to be having the Dapol issue of using moulds from a prehistoric era though! Mike. It could have been down to the amount of recycled plastic used as a proportion to virgin plastic, I understand there is a optimum beyond which the product becomes inferior. If the mix wasn't controlled then variations could possibly occur. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Freeman Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 I seldom venture into the realms of n gauge or 2mm scale when it comes to trackwork, though I have had occasion to assemble some of Waynes products only difference being that a fabricated common crossing was specified in preference to the cast version supplied, otherwise no problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHC Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 I have just seen this you could just download the free .stl's and modify them.......... Might have a go just for some fun. I will need a Lister though to run on it just to keep it local. Keith Ps on Loco Remote's website. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Kinney Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 33 minutes ago, KeithHC said: I have just seen this you could just download the free .stl's and modify them.......... Might have a go just for some fun. I will need a Lister though to run on it just to keep it local. Keith Ps on Loco Remote's website. Well, that puts me out of business.. 15 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Part 2 is even better! I want to know how tight the radius can be made before the tram driver dissappears up his own................................ 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Kinney Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 Merry Christmas, everybody! 8 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHC Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 Wayne season’s greetings looking forward to the new year and your new range. Your range I think will be more important than any announcement from Margate. Keith 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium NFWEM57 Posted December 26, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 26, 2020 Merry Christmas Wayne, hope you are taking a well earned festive break after all the research and hard work you have put in during a very difficult year for all. Patrick 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Kinney Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 (edited) Hope everyone is enjoying the between Xmas and New Year 'Chrimbo Limbo' ....:D If stuck for anything to do, please answer my 2 polls 'What Gauge will you be purchasing?' & 'What plain line flexi track will you be connecting to?' (Please click to follow link) Thanks for your time, guys! Edited December 28, 2020 by Wayne Kinney 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHC Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Voted but in a simple vote the first part is difficult to answer. Yes I put 00sf but equally I could use 00. However what you produce will be a great boon to the hobby. As a matter of interest do you have the capacity to handle the production of the expanded range. Also do you have any more photos to temp us all and of course happy new year. Keith 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 28, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2020 11 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said: Hope everyone is enjoying the between Xmas and New Year 'Chrimbo Limbo' ....:D If stuck for anything to do, please answer my 2 polls 'What Gauge will you be purchasing?' & 'What plain line flexi track will you be connecting to?' (Please click to follow link) Thanks for your time, guys! I'm not quite sure yet what I will be using by way of plain track, but it will probably be a bit of a mix. Definitely some SMP in sidings as I have a couple of boxes to use up. And I should probably have some FB (Code 82) on the mainline. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Kinney Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Thanks Keith, I believe production capacity will more than handle demand, but only time will tell. It's fully scalable anyway. I've got many Xmas orders to get out this week, but hope to get some more photo's up this weekend. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now