Formula 1 2021

[PaulRhB]

2 hours ago, Andrew P said:

And getting fired up for 2022 and beyond.

 

F1 teams begin post-season test in Abu Dhabi

https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/14/f1-teams-begin-post-season-test-in-abu-dhabi-2/

Liking Valterri’s helmet wrap  

 

Merry Xmas 

[ianwales]

A lot has been written about the race and will continue to raise controversy, but, I think that it shouldn't be decided retrospectively in court.

 

The only thing Michael Masi is guilty of is the desire to finish the GP as a race and not behind the safety car hence his classic riposte to Toto "It's a motor Race, we are car racing", as Martin Brundle pointed out in the commentary the sporting regulations say - Lapped cars may be allowed to overtake the safety car, it's the may word that this hinges on , it doesn't say should or all, it say may. maybe that will change in future, but, that is how the rule is written at the moment.

 

I suspect if Lewis had been able to stay ahead for the final lap then a lot of what has been written would have been irrelevant, but, he didn't and succumbed to a brilliant overtake by Max.

 

Finally, as much as I intensely dislike Hamilton I have to say I admire the way he was so magnanimous in defeat and congratulated Max and the team, unlike his boss who sulked away in his office.

[PaulRhB]

7 minutes ago, ianwales said:

Finally, as much as I intensely dislike Hamilton I have to say I admire the way he was so magnanimous in defeat and congratulated Max and the team, unlike his boss who sulked away in his office.

Max has said in interviews Toto congratulated him too. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59643983

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by PaulRhB

[Hobby]

I agree with your first paragraph but why did you have to spoil it with your second! (To IanWales)

 

The Race Director can't selectively choose which rules and regs he uses, I have no issue with the result standing but Masi has to be brought to book for not applying the rules in the way they should have been applied, he'd set the bar at previous races and then bent that for this one, that's not acceptable. He was in overall charge so the buck stops with him. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Hobby

[Gareth Collier]

13 minutes ago, ianwales said:

 

 

I suspect if Lewis had been able to stay ahead for the final lap then a lot of what has been written would have been irrelevant, but, he didn't and succumbed to a brilliant overtake by Max.

 

What brilliant overtake? Weren't you watching? Max had brand new soft tyres whilst Lewis had 30+ lap old hard tyres. A Haas would have breezed past him under those conditions. Masi also knew that which is why what he did by letting a select number of lapped cars through was wrong.

[Nimbus]

13 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

I’ve corrected that for you.

Lewis will go and do all the other things he has lined up (unless Ferrari are completely ruthless and sack one to bring him in, I can’t see him going to anyone else).

I'm certain that Lewis doesn't want to bow out without the one more championship he needs

in order for his entry in the history books to be truly emphatic.

 

If you compare the performance of his car to that of his team-mate, he's demonstrably the

magic ingredient. Hopefully George will bed in quickly and prove more helpful to the team

tacticians.

 

The Nim. 

[woodenhead]

6 minutes ago, Nimbus said:

Hopefully George will bed in quickly and prove more helpful to the team

tacticians.

 

 

I think Russell will be told to be number two for the first season to allow Hamilton to pursue one last title and then he will become the defacto number one in 2023.

[SuperD]

My pennuth for what it's worth...

 

Re the "it's a race Toto"comment.  The "race" was over well before the SC!  Both CH and Verstappen senior had accepted that.  Therefore, if the race had (as it should) ended under the SC, could anyone have complained over a Lewis win?

Alternatively he could have red flagged and we would have had 5 laps of "racing", but everyone on new tyres and starting from previous positions.  For some reason MM had set against that before the race.

Re; Merc pitting... they had to plan their strategy on the basis of not putting Lewis in a position of overtaking Max.  What do you think the result of that would have been??

The answer to that question tells you who should be the champ!!

[Andrew P]

1 minute ago, woodenhead said:

I think Russell will be told to be number two for the first season to allow Hamilton to pursue one last title and then he will become the defacto number one in 2023.

Although I agree with you, If GR gets the better start to 2022 and is being chased by Max, (or any other none Merc Driver) they will have to protect his and the Teams interest.

[LNERandBR]

Regarding George, I hope that the relationship he has with Lewis is a good one. Whilst nobody likes the No1 and No2 Driver dynamic that's the only way you can fend off a challenge from another Team. 

 

It would be good to see Lewis pass on his knowledge and prepare George for becoming the Team Leader. Hopefully next year George can be right on Lewis's rear wing to help fight against Red Bull. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see George Win too. I just don't want the situation where he's actively fighting Lewis and taking points away that could be needed to fight Max.

 

[Andrew P]

Well here's a surprise, NOT.

Michael Masi 'faces F1 sacking' after Abu Dhabi Grand Prix final lap debacle

 

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1535436/Michael-Masi-faces-F1-sacking-after-Abu-Dhabi-Grand-Prix-final-lap-debacle?fbclid=IwAR1oH8MPkRYKiScgqWTdXa-t7aR5_BGpLLR1MCr1IpTq0-6ki3XA6audEQo

[Dunsignalling]

12 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Agreed with most of this. Personally I don't have an issue with drivers being able to pit under red flag or safety car - it adds a degree of chance to the race to shake things up a bit and to my mind is no worse than a driver who'd put a new set of slicks on two laps before it rains losing out to a driver who stayed out the extra two laps and went on to wets. Besides, over the course of a season, any advantage from the red flags/safety cars probably evens itself out.

F1 has been a game of chance in many ways for some while, largely because too many tracks aren't suitable for cars of the width and speed capability that now exists.

 

Tyre tactics and timings are in danger of becoming more crucial than car/driver performance if things carry on going the way they are. Indeed, it's arguable that on some tracks, they already have

 

One way to keep a handle on things would be to ration pitting under SC or Red Flag, to only once per driver per race. Do you go for it under the first SC, or save it for later, when it might be more advantageous?.....

 

John

[ianwales]

43 minutes ago, Hobby said:

I agree with your first paragraph but why did you have to spoil it with your second! (To IanWales)

 

The Race Director can't selectively choose which rules and regs he uses, I have no issue with the result standing but Masi has to be brought to book for not applying the rules in the way they should have been applied, he'd set the bar at previous races and then bent that for this one, that's not acceptable. He was in overall charge so the buck stops with him. 

 

My view is, speaking from the point of view of a F1 marshall, he didn't selectively choose, he applied the rule which says lapped cars MAY be allowed to overtake, the word May is the important word here, hence in order to have a racing finish he took the decision he did by allowing the lapped cars between LH and MV to be moved out of the way, I have a suspicion that if LH had pitted and Max had stayed out then Lewis would have won, what would have been more interesting would have been if they had both pitted, goodness knows who would have won then.

[ianwales]

47 minutes ago, Gareth Collier said:

What brilliant overtake? Weren't you watching? Max had brand new soft tyres whilst Lewis had 30+ lap old hard tyres. A Haas would have breezed past him under those conditions. Masi also knew that which is why what he did by letting a select number of lapped cars through was wrong.

 

The brilliance of it was that Max overtook where he did before Lewis had time to scoot off into the distance, as Martin Brundle said in his commentary he didn't think Max would go that early and neither probably did Lewis, he would have been more prepared to defend later in the lap.

[LNERandBR]

To be honest, I'm done with all the 'Lewis should have won' or 'Lewis's title was stolen' type of talk. What happened has happened and it cannot (or should not) be changed now.

 

What is clear to me is the rules around safety car use need to be tightened up. Take away all these 'X rule overrides Y rule'. The process we've grown to know and expect needs to be followed to the latter. 

 

I do agree that having the lapped cars overtake should be optional. However, once the path has been chosen you shouldn't then be able to change your mind. It also needs to be 'all' lapped cars that are given the opportunity to unlap themselves. If they had who knows if Carlos could have mounted a challenge himself from 3rd place.

[Gareth Collier]

3 minutes ago, ianwales said:

 

The brilliance of it was that Max overtook where he did before Lewis had time to scoot off into the distance, as Martin Brundle said in his commentary he didn't think Max would go that early and neither probably did Lewis, he would have been more prepared to defend later in the lap.

Brilliance? I think we have a different definition. Lewis couldn't scoot off into the distance because coming out of the final corner Max had far more traction because of his tyres. Whatever Brundle said Max could have gone past at any time so he went asap in case of any entanglement later in the lap; there was no DRS so Lewis could never come back at him even though he had a good go, that was brilliant driving, knackered tyres, no DRS yet he still gave Max a run for his money. Whenever he passed is irrelevant due to the tyres they were on and Masi's use of the rules meant Max couldn't lose.

Ultimately I couldn't care who won the championship as long as it was won fairly which it wasn't. I'm also not blaming Max as he had no control over what Masi did although Horner certainly played his part.

[60021 Pen-y-Ghent]

35 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

One way to keep a handle on things would be to ration pitting under SC or Red Flag, to only once per driver per race. Do you go for it under the first SC, or save it for later, when it might be more advantageous?.....

 

John

Or not allow it in the last 5 or 10 (or however many - choose a number) laps.

[Hobby]

24 minutes ago, ianwales said:

My view is, speaking from the point of view of a F1 marshall, he didn't selectively choose, he applied the rule which says lapped cars MAY be allowed to overtake, the word May is the important word here, hence in order to have a racing finish he took the decision he did by allowing the lapped cars between LH and MV to be moved out of the way, I have a suspicion that if LH had pitted and Max had stayed out then Lewis would have won, what would have been more interesting would have been if they had both pitted, goodness knows who would have won then.

 

He did selectively choose, the point made by everyone except you, is that he allowed certain cars to unlap but not all, that is being selective! With regard to the rest, as again we've explained ad infinitum that wasn't a risk Mercedes could take. Masi could have taken a different view and finished under the safety car. The only fair way would have been for him to red flag the race, allow tyre changes but which would have kept the order the same, then t would have been a fair race to the finish.

 

19 minutes ago, ianwales said:

The brilliance of it was that Max overtook where he did before Lewis had time to scoot off into the distance, as Martin Brundle said in his commentary he didn't think Max would go that early and neither probably did Lewis, he would have been more prepared to defend later in the lap.

 

Max had a whole lap on new tyres, Lewis couldn't have scooted off into the distance and certainly couldn't defend on old tyres, do you actually realise the difference in grip between a new soft tyre and 30 lap old hards?!!!

[ianwales]

2 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

He did selectively choose, the point made by everyone except you, is that he allowed certain cars to unlap but not all, that is being selective! With regard to the rest, as again we've explained ad infinitum that wasn't a risk Mercedes could take. Masi could have taken a different view and finished under the safety car. The only fair way would have been for him to red flag the race, allow tyre changes but which would have kept the order the same, then t would have been a fair race to the finish.

 

 

Max had a whole lap on new tyres, Lewis couldn't have scooted off into the distance and certainly couldn't defend on old tyres, do you actually realise the difference in grip between a new soft tyre and 30 lap old hards?!!!

 

Two points here,

 

1. If the cars behind Max had been allowed to unlap themselves then there wouldnt have been time for a final racing lap so MM took the decision he did in order to allow a racing finish.

 

2 If the race had been red flagged then I believe  according to the regulations there wouldn't have been a re-start because over two thirds of the race distance had been completed and the result would have been declared from the last racing lap.

[Hobby]

3 minutes ago, ianwales said:

Two points here,

 

1. If the cars behind Max had been allowed to unlap themselves then there wouldnt have been time for a final racing lap so MM took the decision he did in order to allow a racing finish.

 

2 If the race had been red flagged then I believe  according to the regulations there wouldn't have been a re-start because over two thirds of the race distance had been completed and the result would have been declared from the last racing lap.

 

1. Exactly, but he had a valid alternative which was to stop the race and restart, and in answer to 2. Yes he could have.

 

And 3. that would have been the fairest way to decide it in the circumstances because it at least put the two on equal footing and not one with a massive advantage.

[Geep7]

Something that i've noticed. Has anyone actually heard or seen anything official from Lewis post race, apart from the interview he gave after just getting out of the car?

 

I just have a feeling that it might not be a given that Lewis will be on the grid next year... or Toto for that matter.

[iak]

1 hour ago, Andrew P said:

Well here's a surprise, NOT.

Michael Masi 'faces F1 sacking' after Abu Dhabi Grand Prix final lap debacle

 

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1535436/Michael-Masi-faces-F1-sacking-after-Abu-Dhabi-Grand-Prix-final-lap-debacle?fbclid=IwAR1oH8MPkRYKiScgqWTdXa-t7aR5_BGpLLR1MCr1IpTq0-6ki3XA6audEQo

 

Absolutely correct too!

The chump ruined the race -period!

[didcot]

The thing about letting lapped cars past is that it wasn't applied fully. Why only the cars between MV and LH.  What about the ones between MV and Sainz. Why wasn't Sainz given a chance? You can't selectively apply the rules.

[iak]

2 minutes ago, Geep7 said:

Something that i've noticed. Has anyone actually heard or seen anything official from Lewis post race, apart from the interview he gave after just getting out of the car?

 

I just have a feeling that it might not be a given that Lewis will be on the grid next year... or Toto for that matter.

 

I would be very surprised if those things happened. 

The Mercedes lawyers have probably told them to not say anything for the moment. Mind, LH now has fresh motivation to continue and as for TW? An angry Toto is a dangerous Toto and he too now has the motivation to stay. They both want revenge/redemption/satisfaction, call it what you will; the desire to erase this nonsense will be palpable...

[daltonparva]

Whilst I agree Masi should be booted into touch, if they do so the FIA are basically saying he cocked up, whilst still claiming the result was fair and shouldn't be changed.