Where does our interest lie in the 2021 Hornby Range?

[Mark Dickerson]

2 hours ago, caradoc said:

Shunter 20 looks rather nice, although despite passing through Reading from 1972 onwards, not to mention having worked there for over 3 years, I have no record or memory of actually seeing it ! It does occur to me however, has there ever been a more geographically-limited model ? 

 

It didn't stop sales of Swindon-Works-only(?) GWR 101 or the Dowlais Works model with Hornby which they broadened their range of 0-4-0Ts...

[Legend]

12 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

In this month's Hornby Magazine the only change mentioned is a new diecast footplate "to improve the tractive effort" - oh and adding the current favourite steam loco gimmick / essential detail "firebox flicker"

Deja vu . The original Triang Hornby one had firebox glow! 

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, spamcan61 said:

current favourite steam loco gimmick / essential detail "firebox flicker"

 

Whilst I wouldn't call it essential I do think it creates a good effect.

 

4 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Yes, and with Bachmann's tooling having long-since covered its costs, might the boot  be on the other foot this time?

 

Wouldn't surprise me at all, they lost a load of money out of the 66 at the drop of a hat when the Hattons one was looming.

 

Competition is good for us though, means less "charging what they want" which is what goes on now to an extent IMO (otherwise how do they drop price when they have to)?

[vlvstvir]

I recently got back into model railways, off the back of the retirement of HST's, and so last years was the first range announcement I'd paid attention to since I was about 10, so 15 years ago! In my situation, it's a case of buying 'stock' to keep for a rainy day in the future when I eventually have space for a layout. 

I'm really excited for the FGW HST & Mk3s, mainly because these have been going for CRAZY money on eBay. Also the PRIDE IET and Pendolino - as a member of the LGBT community, its so positive to see these included.

[Pandora]

21 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Yes, and with Bachmann's tooling having long-since covered its costs, might the boot  be on the other foot this time?

 

John

i believe the Crosti had a boiler of reduced   diameter to  a 9F. so Hornby with their existing Railroad Crosti tooling may have theadvantage.

The new Rustons in Departmental black and the Clan in late BR emblem are my intended purchases.

[Hilux5972]

17 minutes ago, Pandora said:

i believe the Crosti had a boiler of reduced   diameter to  a 9F.

Yes the Crosti was reclassified 8F, though I’m not sure if that was after rebuilding or during their Crosti lives. 

[Dunsignalling]

29 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

Yes the Crosti was reclassified 8F, though I’m not sure if that was after rebuilding or during their Crosti lives. 

Probably as soon as they tried one on a 9F load.

 

John

[The Stationmaster]

On 07/01/2021 at 21:36, truffy said:

I haven't trawled the whole thread, Mike, so apologies if this has already been said.

 

But I don't think that your breakdown is either representative or fair. But only because it represents the thread topics as laid before us.

 

'Big steam' is fairly…generic, no pun, or otherwise, intended. But we also have specific threads on the 9F, A1/A3, P2 etc., which add to the general steam enthusiasm but split the vote. So I'm not sure what's achieved.

But that was the entire point - solely to compare the level of interest in each thread and nothing more than that.  In turn that does show the level of interest among RMweb members in different types of models - for example the individual threads in respect of newly tooled steam outline models - but even more so which areas are the most talked about (although not necessarily talked about by the greatest number of individuals.  

 

 As I said in my final sentence it won't necessarily (in fact is unlikely to in my view) represent sales figures.   So it is purely about the attention paid to each thread by RMweb members - and nothing more than that.  I'm sorry if I hadn't made that clear.

 

Having - for some probably unaccountable reason - boughta new Hornby catalogue in WHS the other day (is it an essential?) a further area opens up.  I'm aware that RMweb and the various other online plus print magazines no doubt have a huge amount of information given to them during the Hornby presentation and they have to concentrate on new tooling and don't havea ll that much time available to get everything ready by the official Hornby release date.  

 

But the printed catalogue is interesting in respect of things which have not been given any prominence - or perhaps might not even have been mentioned at the briefing - thus far.  for example among the locos in the catalogue are 5 versions of the Class 71 while the train packs include 2 BILs in two different liveries.  Similarly the coaches include both Stanier and Collet Bow ended non gangwayed stock while there are also Hawksworths, Collet gangwayed stock, and Gresley non-vestibule stock.  In the wagon area there are 21 different version of the modern tooling freight brakevans two of which are the LMS van in new liveries.  It's a while since I bought a catalogue so this sort of thing might not be new but I do wonder if listing all these things - apart from the benefit of presenting a very wide range  - is part of an effort to reduce old stock from the warehouse as at least one of the items involved featured some years back in a 'fire sale'

 

[Compound2632]

The most controversial items generate the longest topics. There's nothing controversial in Hornby producing yet another pacific.

[woodenhead]

3 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

But the printed catalogue is interesting in respect of things which have not been given any prominence - or perhaps might not even have been mentioned at the briefing - thus far.  for example among the locos in the catalogue are 5 versions of the Class 71 while the train packs include 2 BILs in two different liveries.  Similarly the coaches include both Stanier and Collet Bow ended non gangwayed stock while there are also Hawksworths, Collet gangwayed stock, and Gresley non-vestibule stock.  In the wagon area there are 21 different version of the modern tooling freight brakevans two of which are the LMS van in new liveries.  It's a while since I bought a catalogue so this sort of thing might not be new but I do wonder if listing all these things - apart from the benefit of presenting a very wide range  - is part of an effort to reduce old stock from the warehouse as at least one of the items involved featured some years back in a 'fire sale'

 

It is good marketing to remind people about these models, I think Hattons have used this technique for some time with their 'New in stock' items, Hattons Dave has said otherwise but I am sure sometimes they nudge items so they appear to remind people of their availability.  I no longer browse sites like I did, I am aware of specific models through RMWeb and BRM and I buy what I need.  But I do tend to look at new arrivals so if you surreptitiously drop in older items as a reminder I will notice them.

 

If I want something specific I do a Google search to find the item, I don't trawl sites looking in case they have the item so I don't see that there are 5 types of class 71 available etc.  I made an order last night of some sound decoders and only realised the shop had just had to close because of a covid infection after having placed the order because I went in via searches for the specific items I was purchasing not through the front page. (why do I keep using this as an example, fourth time Woodenhead, stuck record).

 

But you're right, as people focus on the shiny and new they forget about the other items in the ranges all of which need to be sold eventually.

[Legend]

Yes I also got the new catalogue . Have to say well done to Key Publishing . Having decided I really didn’t want to go to Tesco’s just for that I ordered the Catalogue and Hornby Magazine on Tuesday night and it arrived on Friday . Pretty good going I think. 
 

I’ve written before that these catalogues are very professionally put together but are essentially bland . It is an age thing , I remember the excitement of the 73 , 74 and 80 catalogues . LNWR18901910s advent thread just highlighted that , with us all posting pictures of our favourite catalogues in the run up to Christmas .  I wonder if in 30-40 years time they will be reminiscing over these catalogues . I doubt it somehow .

 

Anyway  the catalogue is huge and it’s an impressive range .  In previous years the catalogue contained items that were still in stock so presumably that’s the same here . We do know from Hornbys accounts that the stock holding is quite large . So you will find J15s and Class 71s still in the catalogue .  Presumably there are still stocks to shift . The other thing is that it contains things from previous announcements that haven’t arrived yet.... the blue Merchant Navy is a case in point . Wasn’t that first in the catalogue 2 years ago (it might be 3) , but hasn’t yet arrived .  I thought there was an LNER Azuma from 2 years ago then the Scottish one from last year, but only the Scottish one is in this catalogue . I think both have yet to arrive , so does this mean the first one is sold out as it’s not in catalogue ?

 

The only other thing that struck me as went through catalogue is the number of fictitious or special freight wagons . The Beatles this year joining CocaCola , Fathers Day and Merry Christmas wagons . I’m wondering if Hornby are seeing this as a growth area to the detriment of the normal range .  Fictitious liveries have of course been part of Hornby for years , Prime Pork, Kellogg’s , McVities  , Kit Kat , Polo , Duracell to name but a few .  But it looks like we are now using wagons as bill boards for special liveries .  A new development I think . 

[The Stationmaster]

On 09/01/2021 at 12:44, caradoc said:

Shunter 20 looks rather nice, although despite passing through Reading from 1972 onwards, not to mention having worked there for over 3 years, I have no record or memory of actually seeing it ! It does occur to me however, has there ever been a more geographically-limited model ? 

 

The catalogue has an hilarious faux pas in respect of No.20 saying  '(it) spent its entire lifetime at Reading housed under Vastern Road bridge when not in use.'

I suspect local motorists would have been more than a little upset to find it blocking the road under Vastern Road bridge   It was in fact stabled under the bridge between the High Level and Vastern Road Yard and which went over some of the sidings into the signal work.  I could readily be seen there as it was right next to the footpath between Vastern Road and the north side end of the station subways which at one time I used to walk along twice a day on my way to/from the goods depot.

 

It might very occasionally have made its way to the depot. (its replacement was often at the diesel depot for repair) but I'm pretty sure that it never went any further than that so basically it could only ever be seen within no more than about a mile of BR's network.

[Steamport Southport]

I have a feeling they are trying to get a range of models that stay in the catalogue for a couple of years rather than a one release and they are gone strategy.

 

Unfortunately there seems to be an idea (especially on here) that if a model isn't sold out in a week then it's a flop.

 

I remember the days when if you wanted an item in the catalogue then you could go to your local model shop or even department store and actually buy it there and then. Or it could be ordered. No "sorry that item has sold out and they won't be making anymore".

 

 

Jason

[Butler Henderson]

It certainly was a case that models would be featured in the catalogue that had been produced years before, today with everything being costed unsold stock in a warehouse is not necessarily something they would deliberately aim for. The J15 is yet another example of them churning out more versions of a model that may have sold well initially but in doing so largely met the demand and really needed resting for a while. 

A crimson bogie van and the Triang Pedigree container/conflat (such did exist) are on the wanted list while for the layout on its preserved mode the rail blue 88DS on the basis of being one painted to represent No 20.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Butler Henderson

[TomScrut]

50 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Unfortunately there seems to be an idea (especially on here) that if a model isn't sold out in a week then it's a flop.

 

Whereas actually I'd say the ideal is something that sells out over the period of about a year is probably optimum. Something that sells out on pre order or soon after arrival is probably a missed opportunity to do more. So long as it doesn't screw cash flow then having stock on the shelf for a little while doesn't do any harm if it sells.

 

There will be people looking for the GBRF 50s in a few months (for whatever reason, awareness, not having the money etc.) who won't be able to buy them (there aren't any places with both left at a 10% discount I can find) so I expect they'll be gone soon pretty sharp. And that's with the colour being slightly incorrect!

Edited January 10, 2021 by TomScrut

[BokStein]

Referring back to the original heading for Mike's thread, "Where does our interest lie in the 2021 Hornby Range?", I submit that our interest seems not to include encouraging new blood into the hobby!

 

AFAICS, there is only one reference in this whole thread to their 'new' Playtrain (in Mike's opening post), designed for the under 6s as an introduction to this hobby. OK, it may prove to be a clone of the Marklin myWorld but, hey, you have to start somewhere. Without something like this what, if anything, does the future hold for our hobby when our generation is no more?

[TomScrut]

57 minutes ago, BokStein said:

I submit that our interest seems not to include encouraging new blood into the hobby!

 

I do my best with my kids!

 

One thing I have noticed about the playtrain thing, which I do think in general looks good, is that there are 3 locos being sold but the controllers can only link to 2 at a time. I'd have thought making it work with 3 locos would better compliment the range.

[BokStein]

47 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

I do my best with my kids!

 

One thing I have noticed about the playtrain thing, which I do think in general looks good, is that there are 3 locos being sold but the controllers can only link to 2 at a time. I'd have thought making it work with 3 locos would better compliment the range.

 

Fair point and one which Marklin addressed; some controllers / locos worked on channels A & B whilst others worked on channels C & D! Seeemples!

Edited January 10, 2021 by BokStein

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, BokStein said:

Referring back to the original heading for Mike's thread, "Where does our interest lie in the 2021 Hornby Range?", I submit that our interest seems not to include encouraging new blood into the hobby!

 

AFAICS, there is only one reference in this whole thread to their 'new' Playtrain (in Mike's opening post), designed for the under 6s as an introduction to this hobby. OK, it may prove to be a clone of the Marklin myWorld but, hey, you have to start somewhere. Without something like this what, if anything, does the future hold for our hobby when our generation is no more?

 

Maybe it's not relevant to most people on here though? There is a thread for it so there is some interest.

 

I think most of us have gone past the starter train set stage and many of us would think there are better ways to encourage our own children/grandchildren/nephews/nieces/etc than the Playtrains range. My nephew for example probably wouldn't have played with that when he was younger.

 

Most of us already have old models that can be "passed down" to the next generation.

 

Personally I don't fear for the future of the hobby when I'm gone, as I won't be here!

[BokStein]

9 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Maybe it's not relevant to most people on here though? There is a thread for it so there is some interest.

 

There is, indeed, a thread on this forum specifically for the Playtrain, as, indeed, there are for all the differing areas in which Hornby have made announcements; however, I was of the impression that The Stationmaster had set up this independent thread as an overview, regardless of specifics, thus covering all aspects of the releases.

[Steamport Southport]

Probably because there wasn't a general thread full of "Nothing in it for me!" and "Where's my wallet" posts.

 

I think they want you to discuss the items in the relevant threads. If you use the general threads for discussion then everything gets lost as soon as someone mentions Grieg's Piano Concerto or whatever they are discussing in the 4 wheel coach thread...

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Maybe it's not relevant to most people on here though? There is a thread for it so there is some interest.

 

I think most of us have gone past the starter train set stage and many of us would think there are better ways to encourage our own children/grandchildren/nephews/nieces/etc than the Playtrains range. My nephew for example probably wouldn't have played with that when he was younger.

 

Most of us already have old models that can be "passed down" to the next generation.

 

Personally I don't fear for the future of the hobby when I'm gone, as I won't be here!

I never have understood the obsession that some within the hobby have with this.

 

Very definite ideas are promulgated about products that will turn model trains back into must-haves amongst the young. The truth is, most are just describing what would appeal to their 60/70/80-year old heads if they were attached to five-year-old bodies. Before anybody thinks I'm being ageist, I'll be 69 in three weeks time.

 

The plain truth is, nothing will. Interest in railways amongst youngsters declined rapidly through the second half of the 1960s, and interest in models of them followed it down. Of my form-mates at school, about a quarter were pretty keen and a couple more vaguely interested, but the numbers in lower years fell off dramatically and progressively.

 

I hesitate to blame that on the end of steam, though the timing did match fairly closely. My own thought is that as time went on, fewer and fewer had a railway on their doorstep, and even for those of us who did, it seemed to be in terminal decline. Out of sight, out of mind? I actively avoided my local station for five years; every time I visited, another familiar feature had gone. It was 1972 before the bug bit again.  

 

Fine, encourage your own youngsters to get into trains, it's a great hobby, but the truth is, we'll be recruiting them into what, among their peers, will be very much a niche activity. The hobby, as currently constituted, is heavily populated by people (like me) who have carried their interest for half a century and more.

 

Most railway modellers of the future won't get into it the same ways we did, or at the same stage in life. Overall, the hobby looks surprisingly healthy to me but as in all activities, participation will inevitably wax and wane with fashion.

 

"We" got in at the very top, but that was a (very) long time ago. We shouldn't agonise that it's "not the same" or try to make it so, that's almost certainly futile. Change is the only constant, even in activities that rely heavily on nostalgia!

 

The people who need to worry about the future of the hobby are those who make a living from it, not those of us who benefit from their efforts. They are the ones with fingers on the pulse, not us. 

 

Things have changed. Notably, model locomotives now come in unimagined variety, but ephemeral batches of a few hundred rather than the same old few in thousands, spread over a decade and more. 

 

The hobby is different (better IMHO), and will continue to evolve, it may even shrink, but I don't believe for one moment that it's dying.

 

John

 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[truffy]

7 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

But that was the entire point - solely to compare the level of interest in each thread and nothing more than that.  In turn that does show the level of interest among RMweb members in different types of models - for example the individual threads in respect of newly tooled steam outline models - but even more so which areas are the most talked about (although not necessarily talked about by the greatest number of individuals.

 

In your original post, however, you state (my emphasis in bold):

 

On 06/01/2021 at 14:25, The Stationmaster said:

...The next nearest for views is diesel and electric locos with 7.2k views and, by a fairly slim margin, at 67 it also has the second highest number of posts.  But the overall 2021 steam range isn't far behind with 63 posts and 6.2k views.

 

It might not be illustrative of Hornby's love of the subject but 'big steam' doesn't seem to float the boat of many RMweb members.  At 61 posts the 9F is equal fourth with the new Maunsell coaches in number of posts and in a clear fourth place with 4.6k views.  But the new A1/A3 is well down the scale with only 23 posts and 2.1k views while the P2 is even worse at 18 posts and 2.0k views - there are only three items below it in terms of number of posts and only two below it in terms of number of views (and one could perhaps hardly expect the trainsets and new BCK to have done much better on RMweb than their lowly placing.  Also among the 'big steam' the new Hornby Dublo 2 rail doesn't score too well either with 36 posts (eighth from bottom) but a fairly respectable 2.8k of views which at least puts it ahead of HST Mk3 coaches with only 26 posts and 2.7k views and Playtrain which has 2.6k views but a far better 62 posts.

 

These conclusions derive from counting the posts/views in each thread. But, given RMwebbers' propensity to go off-topic, this may be little more than a 'never mind the quality, feel the weight' approach.

 

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "big steam", presumably large steam locos, as opposed to Terriers etc. But I don't think it fair to conclude that there's little interest in "big steam" in this case. Note that each of these threads is not just about big steam, but a specific prototype. So, the overall interest in big steam within the Hornby 2021 announcements would be the sum of these threads. Comparing the DE  (many models) and the 9F (one model) threads doesn't reflect a relative disinterest in big steam, at least not as it applies to Riddles' big boy.

 

I can't readily access the DE, P2, or A1/A3 threads, since they were of so little interest to me that I have them hidden (too many pinned threads in this subforum, I had to cull some to allow room for new/current discussions on the first page).

[BokStein]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

I think they want you to discuss the items in the relevant threads.

 

I already have!

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

I don't believe for one moment that it's dying.

 

Definitely not, There are loads of what look to be people younger than me (I'm 33) interested in this, or trains in general, on Facebook groups.

 

I cannot actually remember how I ever became interested in trains, but it was from a very young age and I think the train sets followed the interest, it did not create the interest.

 

None of my family were/are into model railways so it was not indoctrination from parents although they were very supportive of me having it as a hobby. They would much rather I played with my trains or with Lego than whatever gimmick was out that year, I am glad they did as I think both in hindsight were (and still are) excellent things to play with.