New range of simple to assemble 00/EM gauge pointwork kits - EM B7 Prototype - First Look

[NFWEM57]

Cognisant that we are showcasing Wayne's work, not mine, I will take the videos down.

 

When I have a perfect locomotive to test the turnout I will upload another video.

 

Regards,

 

Patrick

 

 

[KeithHC]

16 minutes ago, NFWEM57 said:

Cognisant that we are showcasing Wayne's work, not mine, I will take the videos down.

 

When I have a perfect locomotive to test the turnout I will upload another video.

 

Regards,

 

Patrick

 

 

Patrick the videos where fine for me the way the digitally controlled Mk1 at speed looks very good.

 

Keith

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, NFWEM57 said:

Hi Frank,

 

Thank you for your comment.  If I had one I would have used it..!  This is my only EM loco at present, a mogul is part complete, but that is why I put the caveat.  This issues, back to back and pickup, will be resolved this weekend and I will upload another video.

 

In the interim,  I can upload a video of an EM converted Mk 1 coach with good back to back going through the turnout if that would satisfy in the interim?

 

Patrick  

 

Patrick

 

I think a compensated loco would go through easier, but tender first as well as loco first going both ways through the curved road please

 

Nothing wrong with either your loco or video

 

I test my turnouts with my worst runner, not best. In 00 gauge its a Mainline LNER tank where all 3 wheelsets have differing back to backs. Its the basis that if this works everything else will work.

 

Keep up the good work, the best person to test is the novice, not the track builder

Edited January 23, 2021 by hayfield

[NFWEM57]

27 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Patrick

 

I think a compensated loco would go through easier, but tender first as well as loco first going both ways through the curved road please

 

Nothing wrong with either your loco or video

 

I test my turnouts with my worst runner, not best. In 00 gauge its a Mainline LNER tank where all 3 wheelsets have differing back to backs. Its the basis that if this works everything else will work.

 

Keep up the good work, the best person to test is the novice, not the track builder

Thank you, much appreciated.

[Chuffer Davies]

3 hours ago, NFWEM57 said:

Hi Frank,

 

Thank you for your comment.  If I had one I would have used it..!  This is my only EM loco at present, a mogul is part complete, but that is why I put the caveat.  This issues, back to back and pickup, will be resolved this weekend and I will upload another video.

 

In the interim,  I can upload a video of an EM converted Mk 1 coach with good back to back going through the turnout if that would satisfy in the interim?

 

Patrick  

Yes please 

[NFWEM57]

1 hour ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Yes please 

I took both videos, including the Mk1 carriage, down earlier today not wanting to showcase Wayne's product in a bad light; as you put it.  When I have a more acceptable locomotive I will run it through Wayne's turnout.

 

I have worked on the 4MT all day, blown a decoder in the process and had to wire up another, so I will test it tomorrow and consider whether it is acceptable for an upload.  But, the loco is a quarter century old so we need to make a few allowances.  Stay tuned there may be a video in a day or two provided it showcase Wayne's product in a favourable manner.

 

One small point, those who might not wish to attempt scratch build track, and delight at the prospect of Wayne's easy build product, might not also wish to undertake more complex conversions.  In addition, as pointed out previously in this thread today, having a less than perfect loco run through track is a good test although I will admit mine was probably far less than perfect..!  Wayne's turnout handled my 'contraption' pretty well.

 

Patrick

  

[NFWEM57]

16 hours ago, KeithHC said:

Well done Patrick it still looks great no matter what. Just thinking out loud you could be modelling part of the Llanberris branch with the Padarn railway running along side......... How about a workbench thread on your EM conversions.

 

Keith

ps Wayne and further updates 

 

 

Keith,

 

Good idea.  I may upload a thread on lesson's learnt for conversions.  It will be old news to the more experienced but useful to those just venturing into EM..  The issue with the 4MT was not the split chassis, it was the fact that adding brass shorting shorting strips on inside of the wheel on both sides to connect steel tyre to brass stub axle meant that I could not get down to 16.5mm back to back without pushing the stub axles so close together that the axle would not fit inside the chassis.  A combination of modifications required, but more in a separate thread.

 

All metal wheels on the brass stubs would have been a better solution in hind sight. 

 

Regards,

 

Patrick

 

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by NFWEM57
change of wording and typos

[Chuffer Davies]

3 hours ago, NFWEM57 said:

I took both videos, including the Mk1 carriage, down earlier today not wanting to showcase Wayne's product in a bad light; as you put it.  When I have a more acceptable locomotive I will run it through Wayne's turnout.

 

I have worked on the 4MT all day, blown a decoder in the process and had to wire up another, so I will test it tomorrow and consider whether it is acceptable for an upload.  But, the loco is a quarter century old so we need to make a few allowances.  Stay tuned there may be a video in a day or two provided it showcase Wayne's product in a favourable manner.

 

One small point, those who might not wish to attempt scratch build track, and delight at the prospect of Wayne's easy build product, might not also wish to undertake more complex conversions.  In addition, as pointed out previously in this thread today, having a less than perfect loco run through track is a good test although I will admit mine was probably far less than perfect..!  Wayne's turnout handled my 'contraption' pretty well.

 

Patrick

  

Hi again Patrick.

please don't beat yourself up about the loco you are converting.  I actually think those old split frame models are very challenging to convert and I've always shied away from trying to do it.  I prefer to fit a complete replacement chassis as whilst its more work it is in my opinion easier to do.  I will be the first to congratulate you if you manage to get it running smoothly.

 

I look forward to seeing a proper demonstration of Wayne's track work in due course.  I have every expectation that this will become the most popular solution for EM modellers in preference to hand building track from C&L and Exactoscale components as I and others have had to do in the past.  It would be great to see someone demonstrating construction of Wayne's kits at an Expo EM event once we get out of the current social distancing.

 

Keep up the good work,

 

Frank

[LBRJ]

I am sorry to say I missed these talked about videos.

For one, I would much rather see how something performs under real life,  less than optimal conditions.

[Enterprisingwestern]

10 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

please don't beat yourself up about the loco you are converting. 

 

I would agree with that.

You've got further than me in converting a Mainline split chassis loco, I've been molesting an 03 shunter on and off for about 40 years and I'm still no closer to it running anywhere near as good as your loco! To give it a bit of historical context, I initially packed it in and bought a Perseverance chassis for another body I acquired, and of course, more recently, the High Level chassis kit is the way to go, so I may never achieve your levels of success!

 

Mike.

[KeithHC]

12 hours ago, NFWEM57 said:

Keith,

 

Good idea.  I may upload a thread on lesson's learnt for conversions.  It will be old news to the more experienced but useful to those just venturing into EM..  The issue with the 4MT was not the split chassis, it was the fact that adding brass shorting shorting strips on inside of the wheel on both sides to connect steel tyre to brass stub axle meant that I could not get down to 16.5mm back to back without pushing the stub axles so close together that the axle would not fit inside the chassis.  A combination of modifications required, but more in a separate thread.

 

All metal wheels on the brass stubs would have been a better solution in hind sight. 

 

Regards,

 

Patrick

 

 

Thanks Patrick, no matter what or how the conversion came out it does give me confidence about approaching EM. For my first loco it will be according to Ultra scale one of easiest conversions namely a Heljan 33. Just as a matter of interest the Mk1 how did you do the conversion on that. I would also like to say that the videos show that Wayne’s product is capable of dealing what is thrown at it again it gives confidence about EM. It is often said especially recently of something becoming a game changer. In terms of 4mm modelling I consider this to be a major game changer. I think the emgs better prepare for a raft of new members this year. I will be rejoining again soon.

 

Wayne and Patrick keep up the great work you have started.

 

Keith

[hayfield]

10 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Hi again Patrick.

please don't beat yourself up about the loco you are converting.  I actually think those old split frame models are very challenging to convert and I've always shied away from trying to do it.  I prefer to fit a complete replacement chassis as whilst its more work it is in my opinion easier to do.  I will be the first to congratulate you if you manage to get it running smoothly.

 

I look forward to seeing a proper demonstration of Wayne's track work in due course.  I have every expectation that this will become the most popular solution for EM modellers in preference to hand building track from C&L and Exactoscale components as I and others have had to do in the past.  It would be great to see someone demonstrating construction of Wayne's kits at an Expo EM event once we get out of the current social distancing.

 

Keep up the good work,

 

Frank

 

Patrick

 

When building track I use a rolling chassis to test turnouts and crossings I am building. simply lift one end of the building board and see how the chassis progresses through the turnout or crossing. Being a rolling chassis you can see how the wheels interact with the rails without the body getting in the way

 

I don't know if this may help, but  I am more into kit built locos. I am always on the lookout for chassis and chassis component's. Its surprising how cheaply you can buy a common cheap kit built loco which can be easily and cheaply converted to EM gauge. An example is perhaps something like a K's pannier tank with Romford or Markit wheels, if you are very lucky it may have an etched chassis. Replacement axles are about £1.50 each and the chassis can either be widened or have the sides packed out, don't worry about motorising it all you need is a free running loco.

 

I guess the same could be done with a cheap RTR loco with decent wheels or one of the EMGS conversion packs.  

[NFWEM57]

4 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

Patrick

 

When building track I use a rolling chassis to test turnouts and crossings I am building. simply lift one end of the building board and see how the chassis progresses through the turnout or crossing. Being a rolling chassis you can see how the wheels interact with the rails without the body getting in the way

 

I don't know if this may help, but  I am more into kit built locos. I am always on the lookout for chassis and chassis component's. Its surprising how cheaply you can buy a common cheap kit built loco which can be easily and cheaply converted to EM gauge. An example is perhaps something like a K's pannier tank with Romford or Markit wheels, if you are very lucky it may have an etched chassis. Replacement axles are about £1.50 each and the chassis can either be widened or have the sides packed out, don't worry about motorising it all you need is a free running loco.

 

I guess the same could be done with a cheap RTR loco with decent wheels or one of the EMGS conversion packs.  

Hi Frank,

 

Have another cheap broken 4MT on the way for that very purpose. Take the motor out and use it purely as a free running test loco.

 

But thank you for all your advice.

 

Patrick

[NFWEM57]

Not entirely on topic by an update on the 4MT for the curious.  4MT going through an EMGS B6 at a crawl, fairly smoothly on speed step 1.  A little fine tuning required but good enough as a test loco?  Apologies for the sound at the end..!

 

Waiting for feedback from Wayne re other videos.

 

 

 

 

Patrick

 

[ClikC]

18 minutes ago, NFWEM57 said:

Not entirely on topic by an update on the 4MT for the curious.  4MT going through an EMGS B6 at a crawl, fairly smoothly on speed step 1.  A little fine tuning required but good enough as a test loco?  Apologies for the sound at the end..!

 

Waiting for feedback from Wayne re other videos.

 

 

 

 

Patrick

 

Hi Patrick.

 

looks fine to me, but any robust testing methodology would employ multiple examples. In engineering terms, you’d require 30+ results in order to be statistically significant (I appreciate this is time consuming).

 

Can I suggest that a range of prototypes be tested, both steam, diesel and electric. And if possible, it may be an idea to test a range of back to back values through the points. It’s always nice to confirm that incorrect values don’t work, as well as positive indications.

 

Regards

[NFWEM57]

2 hours ago, ClikC said:

Hi Patrick.

 

looks fine to me, but any robust testing methodology would employ multiple examples. In engineering terms, you’d require 30+ results in order to be statistically significant (I appreciate this is time consuming).

 

Can I suggest that a range of prototypes be tested, both steam, diesel and electric. And if possible, it may be an idea to test a range of back to back values through the points. It’s always nice to confirm that incorrect values don’t work, as well as positive indications.

 

Regards

Hi,

 

Commonly known as a Beta Test.   I am sure others will test with a variety of locos but my role, as someone who has never built track, was to test build the prototype for Wayne and run a loco through it.  Did that for the OO version but no EM locos as I am busy converting a few at present and the 4MT was my first.  I only uploaded the latest video to satisfy the curious about progress on my wobbly attempt from yesterday.

 

On the back to back through the turnout, one of my next tasks is to convert another carriage and loco (unpowered) for just that purpose.  But in the meantime I have a split chassis gwr mogul to complete conversion to EM and then a few, far simpler and more recent RTR diesels; class 33, 35, 42, 47 and 52.  Have AG wheels sets already so simple swap out.

 

Patrick

Edited January 24, 2021 by NFWEM57
typos

[Penrhos1920]

On 20/01/2021 at 11:12, Chuffer Davies said:

As I understand it the EMGS did consider starting an EM specific blog on RM Web but decided against it because the content would duplicate that found on the Society’s own web site.  All the topics suggested above can already be found on the Society’s web site: www.emgs.org .  As well as summary information for the general public, members have access to an on-line manual which includes guidelines for converting a wide range of RTR models, and to the club’s own trade sales where the track work commissioned from Peco can be purchased.

 

I’ve just decided to move over to EM and joined EMGS earlier this month.  The RTL points was the decider.  Now with Wayne’s kits on the way that’s even better as I’m sure they’ll be just as good if not better given his 2mm experience.

 

But I’ve already got very confused as to what B2B I should be using and I’ve trawled the EMGS forum and handbook with no success.  I’ve also bought a couple of B2B gauges but they’re not the same width!! So @Chuffer Davies could you please direct me to the relevant pages on the EMGS forum.

[martin_wynne]

13 minutes ago, Penrhos1920 said:

But I’ve already got very confused as to what B2B I should be using

 

For standard EM:

 

original RTR wheels: 16.4mm max.

 

Markits/Romford wheels: 16.5mm max.

 

Gibson/Ultrascale wheels: 16.6mm max.

 

For all of them: 16.3mm min.

 

For optimum running set close to the maximum without exceeding it.

 

Martin.

Edited January 30, 2021 by martin_wynne

[Chuffer Davies]

1 hour ago, martin_wynne said:

 

For standard EM:

 

original RTR wheels: 16.4mm max.

 

Markits/Romford wheels: 16.5mm max.

 

Gibson/Ultrascale wheels: 16.6mm max.

 

For all of them: 16.3mm min.

 

For optimum running set close to the maximum without exceeding it.

 

Martin.

I fully concur with Martin although I personally have my Gibson/Ultrascale gauge set to 16.7mm in the spirit of complying with Martin’s last statement.

 

In fact Martin’s last statement is my guiding principle the other measurements Martin has suggested are the result of adhering to this principle.   
 

Frank

[roythebus1]

Just wait for our American friend to chime in...

[NFWEM57]

On 31/01/2021 at 11:22, roythebus1 said:

Just wait for our American friend to chime in...

No response, time zone difference is obviously far longer than that officially published..!

[hayfield]

Hush you have not mentioned 0**F so no alarm bells have rung

[simonmcp]

I hope the moderator still has him muzzled.

[Wayne Kinney]

Hi Guys,

 

Thought I would share what I've been working on the last few days, a jig fixture to hold down the rail while they are machined into switch blades:

 

 

The jig holds 16 blades so enough for 8 turnout kits (or 2 double slips). Takes 52 minutes to machine all 16.

 

Also a small video of it in operation:

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Wayne Kinney

[martin_wynne]

Excellent.

 

If you get the dimensions right, the surplus end of the rail makes the check rail. Two blades, two check rails, no wastage.

 

Martin.