Bachmann DCC onboard and the HM2000 controller

[WestRail642fan]

Hello all, i'm planning on buying myself the Bachmann Acela high speed train but i've noticed that its DCC fitted. Now, all my trains are either pure analog or DCC ready and my controller is the HM2000. I know that DCC fitted can run on DC provided the controller isn't a feedback. I would like to know if the HM2000 is a feedback controller since i dont want to end up frying my Acela unit and i don't know if Bachmann sell the blanking plates so i can remove the chip.

 

Edit: I should mention that the version of the HM2000 i have is the older type that has the expansion plug for HM2000+ controllers

 

 

Cheers in advance, 

 

WestRail

Edited February 26, 2021 by WestRail642fan
added info about my controller

[Roy Langridge]

Can’t answer your question, but just a word of caution, some DCC decoders do not support running on DC. For example, the latest Bachmann Peaks are sound fitted with DCC only chips.

 

Blanking plates are fairly easy to pick up as long as they were not a non-standard part. 

 

Roy

[Ron Ron Ron]

7 hours ago, WestRail642fan said:

........I don't know if Bachmann sell the blanking plates so i can remove the chip......

Before thinking about blanking plugs, make sure that the decoder is a regular plug-in type, rather than being integrated onto the printed circuit board, as is the case with many DCC fitted US models.

 

 

.

[WestRail642fan]

12 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Before thinking about blanking plugs, make sure that the decoder is a regular plug-in type, rather than being integrated onto the printed circuit board, as is the case with many DCC fitted US models.

 

 

.

if that is the case, what could be done to remove the chip?

[Ron Ron Ron]

34 minutes ago, WestRail642fan said:

if that is the case, what could be done to remove the chip?

 

I'm not saying it is, but a number of American models have the decoder incorporated on their circuit board.

If this is the case with the Acela, it should run on DC, but in the unlikely event it doesn't, you'd have to strip out the board and rewire the motor and lights accordingly.

 

However, it might have a regular plug-in decoder and socket, which will allow a blanking plug to be substituted for the decoder.

 

 

.

 

 

 

[WestRail642fan]

In that case, it might be easier to just rewire the controller that comes with it to be able to connect to Hornby track power clips

[Ron Ron Ron]

3 hours ago, WestRail642fan said:

In that case, it might be easier to just rewire the controller that comes with it to be able to connect to Hornby track power clips

Don’t use Hornby power clips to connect a DCC system to the track.

These clips have a  suppression capacitor built-in to their plastic body, which may present as a short to the DCC system.

 

Use alternative power clips without a capacitor, or solder to a piece of track.

Have a look at what’s supplied with the Acela train set?

 

 

.

[smokebox]

4 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Don’t use Hornby power clips to connect a DCC system to the track.

These clips have a  suppression capacitor built-in to their plastic body, which may present as a short to the DCC system.

 

Use alternative power clips without a capacitor, or solder to a piece of track.

Have a look at what’s supplied with the Acela train set?

 

 

.

 

Hornby sell power clips and power tracks that are specifically for DCC use and don't have suppressors in them.  Those clips and power tracks that do have suppressors in them can be prised open to allow the suppressor capacitor to be removed for DCC use.

Edited February 28, 2021 by smokebox
More info added

[RAF96]

How to find the suppression capacitor...

 

[WestRail642fan]

On 28/02/2021 at 08:25, Ron Ron Ron said:

Don’t use Hornby power clips to connect a DCC system to the track.

These clips have a  suppression capacitor built-in to their plastic body, which may present as a short to the DCC system.

 

Use alternative power clips without a capacitor, or solder to a piece of track.

Have a look at what’s supplied with the Acela train set?

 

 

.

I think its just a standard Bachmann track/rerailer connector

[Pete the Elaner]

On 26/02/2021 at 07:35, Roy Langridge said:

Can’t answer your question, but just a word of caution, some DCC decoders do not support running on DC. For example, the latest Bachmann Peaks are sound fitted with DCC only chips.

 

Blanking plates are fairly easy to pick up as long as they were not a non-standard part. 

 

Roy

Are you sure?

Bachmann's latest sound locos use Loksound v5 & DC is supported on those. It can be disabled though & this may well be the case for factory-fitted sound locos.

It can be enabled but the snag is you need a DCC system to do it. A good shop will test it & enable it for you. Internet shopping is not helpful for service like this.

 

DCC models can run better than DC on a DC system. It sounds bizarre but it makes sense:

If a DC model runs poorly, it will be when voltage is low. A DCC loco needs a reasonable voltage before it gets moving, so any issue with the low voltage across a poor track-rail connection is lessened.

 

The HM2000 is not a very sophisticated controller: no feedback or anything like that.

The comment about the power clip is worth taking on board though. I solder my wires to the rails so I tend to forget about the push-under power clips.

[jpendle]

According to US reviews the Acela set comes with a DC controller, even though the train itself is DCC fitted.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[Roy Langridge]

4 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Are you sure?

Bachmann's latest sound locos use Loksound v5 & DC is supported on those. It can be disabled though & this may well be the case for factory-fitted sound locos.

It can be enabled but the snag is you need a DCC system to do it. A good shop will test it & enable it for you. Internet shopping is not helpful for service like this.

 

DCC models can run better than DC on a DC system. It sounds bizarre but it makes sense:

If a DC model runs poorly, it will be when voltage is low. A DCC loco needs a reasonable voltage before it gets moving, so any issue with the low voltage across a poor track-rail connection is lessened.

 

The HM2000 is not a very sophisticated controller: no feedback or anything like that.

The comment about the power clip is worth taking on board though. I solder my wires to the rails so I tend to forget about the push-under power clips.

My LokProgrammer reports it as a LokSound V5 *DCC* which I believe is a pure DCC chip. Could be wrong, does happen. 
 

Roy

[Ron Ron Ron]

14 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

My LokProgrammer reports it as a LokSound V5 *DCC* which I believe is a pure DCC chip. Could be wrong, does happen. 
 

Roy

Roy, the “DCC” version of the decoder, means that it’ll only work digitally with the DCC protocol, whereas the regular version is multi protocol capable and will work with the DCC, Motorola, Selectrix and Märklin (M4) Mfx digital systems.

Both types will work on DC unless it’s disabled by a CV setting.

 

 

.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron

[GoingUnderground]

4 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Roy, the “DCC” version of the decoder, means that it’ll only work digitally with the DCC protocol, whereas the regular version is multi protocol capable and will work with the DCC, Motorola, Selectrix and Märklin M4 digital systems.

Sorry to be picky, but there isn't a Maerklin M4 digital protocol.

 

The M4 designation on the multiprotocol ESU decoders, and on the ECoS, refers to ESU's implementation of the Maerklin mfx protocol, which ESU developed for Maerklin. ESU couldn't call their own mfx capable decoders "mfx" nor say that the ECoS used mfx as until relatively recently Maerklin kept mfx all to itself and wouldn't let anyone else use the mfx name even though ESU developed the original mfx system for Maerklin. To get round the problem, ESU use the name M4 when referring to their products which are mfx capable.

 

There are some subtle differences between the multiprotocol and DCC only versions of the V5 decoders. The multiprotocol version doesn't support CV 6 whereas the DCC Only version does. Also CVs 2 and 5 work slightly differently in the multiprotocol version the shape of the speed curve is fixed whereas in the DCC Only one CV 2 and 5 can be used in the usual way, see sections 10.2 and 10.2.1 in the LS5 and LP5 manuals.

 

Personally, I find it strange that the DCC only version is only available in the USA and not here in the UK when the number of UK modellers wanting the multiprotocol version must be minuscule.

Edited March 2, 2021 by GoingUnderground
Additional info

[Ron Ron Ron]

28 minutes ago, GoingUnderground said:

Sorry to be picky, but there isn't a Maerklin M4 digital protocol.

 

The M4 designation on the multiprotocol ESU decoders, and on the ECoS, refers to ESU's implementation of the Maerklin mfx protocol.........

You are right to pick me up on that Keith.

I was posting in a daze at 6am having woken too early after a restless night.

I just remembered the M4 designation ESU uses, rather than stating Mfx.

Cheers

Ron

 

 

.

[jpendle]

Hi,

 

Getting back to the OP. The Acela doesn't have sound, it's a US model, and probably has a custom DCC board, rather than a PCB with a socket for a DCC decoder.

I think all this discussion about ESU Loksound decoders is a little off topic.

 

Regards,

 

John P