Ship stuck across (blocking) the Suez Canal

[Tankerman]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

This is Egypt we are talking about.

Youve seen the “digger” they sent to dig the ship out.

 

As for checking the channel... they’ll leave that to the next ship behind to find out.

 

All this delay has cost Egypt nothing.. The owners of the containers are paying... i hope those 20k containers have insurance that include general average... on top of that Egypt will want compensation for lost revenue, the rescue, the damage to its canal banks.. Probably impound the ship, cargo and want storage fees whilst it bobs about too.

 

General Average: A weird ancient British invention, that allows ship owners to transfer blame from the ship, to its cargo’s owners and allows the crew to claim their actions have  actually saved the cargo from the perils of the sea and hence want paying for it.

 

In this case the owners/operators of the ship cannot transfer the blame of costs to the owners of the cargo under the rule of General Average.

 

I've used the quote below to save me a lot of typing.

 

General Average in maritime transport is when losses occur during a vessel voyage, and the Captain has no other option but to declare General Average to sacrifice some of the cargo to save life, vessel or cargos; The cost of the sacrifice is shared proportionately among the stakeholders in the maritime transport.

There are four salient features of general average

The sacrifice must be extraordinary, and any following damages from the sacrifice is also considered to the General Average Cost.

The sacrifice is made intentionally, any accidents that occur is not considered as General Average. 

There must be a peril to the ship voyage, the Captain has to ascertain that the peril is real and not made up. 

Actions resulting in General Average must be for the common safety, not for the safety for part of the property involved.

General Average Law is 3000 years old and it is a system still applied today, there are no viable alternatives to this practice. 

 

Incidentally Flotsam and Jetsam also have defined means in maritime law. Flotsam is cargo which floats or is washed off a ship as a result of storm or sinking,  Jetsam is cargo which is deliberately discharged overboard.

[adb968008]

17 minutes ago, Tankerman said:

 

In this case the owners/operators of the ship cannot transfer the blame of costs to the owners of the cargo under the rule of General Average.

 

I've used the quote below to save me a lot of typing.

 

General Average in maritime transport is when losses occur during a vessel voyage, and the Captain has no other option but to declare General Average to sacrifice some of the cargo to save life, vessel or cargos; The cost of the sacrifice is shared proportionately among the stakeholders in the maritime transport.

There are four salient features of general average

The sacrifice must be extraordinary, and any following damages from the sacrifice is also considered to the General Average Cost.

The sacrifice is made intentionally, any accidents that occur is not considered as General Average. 

There must be a peril to the ship voyage, the Captain has to ascertain that the peril is real and not made up. 

Actions resulting in General Average must be for the common safety, not for the safety for part of the property involved.

General Average Law is 3000 years old and it is a system still applied today, there are no viable alternatives to this practice. 

 

Incidentally Flotsam and Jetsam also have defined means in maritime law. Flotsam is cargo which floats or is washed off a ship as a result of storm or sinking,  Jetsam is cargo which is deliberately discharged overboard.

You better call the ships insurers then, and notify them that they are wrong.

 

heres a phone number: +44 20 7876 4500, ask for Jai Sharma, tell him your qualifications and skills, and see if they will reconsider item 4& 9 in this list.

 

The thought process suggests this ship grounded due to a weather event.

 

heres but one law firm giving advice, “with lawyers on the ground in Cairo”...

 

Quote

4. We understand that salvage services are being provided under LOF with Nippon Salvage and Smit being the contractors. Even if the Owners absorb this cost it will almost inevitably result in a GA claim brought by the Owners.

 

Quote

9... If the vessel is not refloated in short order, it is possible that cargo interests will face claims for salvage, and we consider it likely that there will be claims for General Average.

see items 4 & 9.

https://www.clydeco.com/en/insights/2021/03/casualty-update-ever-given

 

On the upside, You’ll probably get 20k container transport shippers supporting you.

 

 

 

i reckon they know what they are doing more than a bunch of modellers on a railway forum. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by adb968008

[Oldddudders]

7 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

i reckon they know what they are doing more than a bunch of modellers on a railway forum.

What an unreasonable assertion.

[Tankerman]

5 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

You better call the ships insurers then, and notify them that they are wrong.

 

heres their phone number: +44 20 7876 4500, ask for Jai Sharma, tell him your qualifications and skills, and see if they will reconsider item 9 in this list.

 

https://www.clydeco.com/en/insights/2021/03/casualty-update-ever-given

 

On the upside, You’ll probably get 20k container transport shippers supporting you.

 

 

If I have read their statements correctly they are offering legal services to the cargo owners to defend them against a claim of General Average. In this case, in offering their services, they must be, at least, fairly confident of being successful in such an action.

[adb968008]

11 minutes ago, Tankerman said:

 

If I have read their statements correctly they are offering legal services to the cargo owners to defend them against a claim of General Average. In this case, in offering their services, they must be, at least, fairly confident of being successful in such an action.

All lawyers are confident.

 

Would you give money to an unconfident lawyer ?

 

But thats also why it takes 10 years, to break it all down and argue it all out.

 

Ever Given will be Forever Forgotten by the time the legals have finished.

i figure before that ship moves, one container needs to come off, then the party starts.

 

Have you phoned them, and told them they are wrong yet ?

Edited March 29, 2021 by adb968008

[jonny777]

13 hours ago, Allegheny1600 said:

Hey Egypt,

Don’t worry, RMweb is here to help!

No matter the world’s best engineers are no doubt involved, we have guys who, with a few minutes Googling, will sort your problems out with no fuss.

Karen on Facebook has nothing on these guys.

 

Or, as a letter printed in today's Guardian says - 

 

"After watching extensive coverage of the Ever Given, I am amazed that there is still no sign of a growing group of elderly men gathering on the bank shouting advice such as "put it into reverse" and "cut your revs down". 

 

Ian Grieve, Llangollen Canal"

 

 

[Tankerman]

4 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

All lawyers are confident.

 

Would you give money to an unconfident lawyer ?

 

But thats also why it takes 10 years, to break it all down and argue it all out.

 

Ever Given will be Forever Forgotten by the time the legals have finished.

 

Have you phoned them, and told them they are wrong yet ?

I have no reason to ring them because, if I have correctly understood what they have written, they have stated that they can successfully defend the cargo owners against a claim for General Average by the shipowner and/or the operators. 

 

[spikey]

Following the suggestion made earlier that the appropriate watertight doors be welded shut, the pointy bit of the ship be cut off, and the thereby-freed vessel then be towed to an obliging shipyard for a new pointy bit to be affixed before it goes on its merry way, I was woken in the early hours of this morning by my Lady Wife and informed that I was laughing in my sleep.  I had no idea why.

 

I've now remembered the dream, in which there was a chalk line running vertically down the side of the ship, at the top of which a chap in a fez and a long nightshirt was perched on a very long wooden ladder with a cutting torch, the hoses of which ran down to the bottles at the base of the ladder, where his similarly-attired mate was attending to a donkey ...

[kevinlms]

32 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Although the ship has moved, the stern swung around and the bow isn't stuck in the bank anymore it is not yet free of the floor of the canal, although they are hoping it will at high tide.

 

Latest news on the Beeb from a shipping spokesman suggests that the log jam of ships will end up backed up at their destination ports waiting for an unloading slot once they are through the canal and the disruption could last months.

But with the Suez being closed for around a week, there is a fleet of ships that had already got through, so the destination ports won't have noticed much difference yet. Then there will be a lull, until the first ones arrive after the Suez reopens.

The rush will be on to get to the ports first, so will there be some ships in a hurry to get across the Med in the shortest practical time? The ports will be at a reduced queuing for unloading for at least a couple of days, then chaos.

[Mol_PMB]

She's on her way now - bringing all our toys. 

[KeithMacdonald]

53 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

i reckon they know what they are doing more than a bunch of modellers on a railway forum. 

 

46 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

What an unreasonable assertion.

 

Stand by!

 

It will get much more exciting and "on topic" when the first scale models are produced of "Ever Given Stuck In The Canal"!

 

Stand by for arguments about

a) the wrong choice of colours

b) which shipping line containers should be visible

and (best of all)

c) how many rivets should be displayed above the waterline.

 

Breaking News!

 

 

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:32.578/centery:30.025/zoom:14

 

 

[melmerby]

 

4.2nt speed

 

 

[melmerby]

Ignore the data panel on right, that is another ship

This is correct:

It got under way just after 13:00 UTC (1400 BST)

[Mol_PMB]

37 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

 

Stand by!

 

It will get much more exciting and "on topic" when the first scale models are produced of "Ever Given Stuck In The Canal"!

 

Stand by for arguments about

a) the wrong choice of colours

b) which shipping line containers should be visible

and (best of all)

c) how many rivets should be displayed above the waterline.

 

Breaking News!

 

 

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:32.578/centery:30.025/zoom:14

 

 

Well I was beginning to wonder whether I should add a ship’s bow wedged in the canal bank at the front of my model railway! 

Manchester had canalside railways, Panama still does (used for ship haulage) I don’t think Suez does. 

[tomparryharry]

I don't know what the fuss is all about.  Volcanoes; riots in Burma; boat stuck in a ditch...... Hang on, what's this....?

 

HELLS TEETH!!!  CITY of TRURO WAS PAINTED BLACK!!!!!  WHERE'S MY TEDDY!!!!  YOU WON'T HEAR THE LAST OF THIS!!!*

 

* Unless it's a very old joke.

 

H. R. Rumph, esq. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, spikey said:

I've now remembered the dream, in which there was a chalk line running vertically down the side of the ship, at the top of which a chap in a fez and a long nightshirt was perched on a very long wooden ladder with a cutting torch, the hoses of which ran down to the bottles at the base of the ladder, where his similarly-attired mate was attending to a donkey ...

 

You're not far off the ship breaking that goes on in Pakistan.

[Adam88]

1 hour ago, spikey said:

a chap in a fez

 

That would have been Tommy Cooper then.

[adb968008]

2 minutes ago, Adam88 said:

 

That would have been Tommy Cooper then.

and “Just like that....”

 

its moving.

52 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Ignore the data panel on right, that is another ship

This is correct:

It got under way just after 13:00 UTC (1400 BST)

 

[Compound2632]

59 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

I don't know what the fuss is all about.  Volcanoes; riots in Burma; boat stuck in a ditch...... Hang on, what's this....?

 

HELLS TEETH!!!  CITY of TRURO WAS PAINTED BLACK!!!!!  WHERE'S MY TEDDY!!!!  YOU WON'T HEAR THE LAST OF THIS!!!*

 

* Unless it's a very old joke.

 

H. R. Rumph, esq. 

 

Very smart-looking too, if I may make so bold.

[melmerby]

Really getting a move on now at more than 8kt and is into the Little Bitter Lake.

This shows the shipping channel:

 

No other vessels have enter the canal yet, although quite a few seem to be lining up

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

Panama still does (used for ship haulage) I don’t think Suez does. 

 

Panama has locomotive haulage in the locks, ships proceed under their own power otherwise,  Suez has no locks, it is a simple cut through the desert of the Suez Ithsmus, and there are tidal flows through it between the Mediterranean and Gulf of Suez. 

 

The Suez Canal has been operating at more than full capacity for many years, as evidenced by the groups of anchored shipping off Port Said and Suez waiting for permission to enter the waterway.  Ships go through in batches taking advantage of tidal flows, and can pass in the Bitter Lakes where the dredged channel is much wider, and the big container ships are uncomfortably close to the limit of width acceptable, effectively a single line with passing loops.  The canal is dug through sand, which forms a v rather than u shaped channel, so although it is 300m wide only the central 100m of that is usable by the bigger ships.

 

Practice may change in the wake (sorry) of this event, with the possibility of tugs deployed to ensure that ships are kept alinged with the centre of the channel even in the event of sandstorms and strong crosswinds.  It has been suggested that there was a power outage on the Given at the critical moment, and this might have been caused by sand  blocking the engine's air intake filters.  Ships are by and large not designed to operate in deserts, as apart from Suez this would be regarded as poor navigation, but perhaps ships intended to use the Suez canal should be, and tugs insisted on for those that aren't.

 

Costs will increase if any of this happens, and will be passed on to the consumers of imported goods from the Indian Ocean side of the world, which is where most of them come from for European destinations. 

 

In the meantime, kudos to all involved in this very delicate operation, carried out with skill and cool professionalism under what must have been terrible pressure, by the Egyptians on the banks, the Indian crew aboard the Given, and particularly the expert Dutch salvage tugs.  And the guy with the little digger, fair play to him clearing an area for bigger diggers to work in and putting up with the scorn of a world that understands nothing.

 

Some of the responses here, and a larger number of the comments on the BBC iPlayer News website, are a little racist to my view (what do you expect from the Egyptians, happy Africa); what have Cairo taxi drivers got to do with any of it?  We've got plenty taxi drivers here who would probably behave similarly to make a buck if there were inadequately enforced controls, like the one who knocked my off my bike while I was stationary at a set of traffic lights in central Cardiff while driving on the wrong side of the road and concentrating on his radio mike; he then claimed I was in his way and should have moved out of it.  Luckily there were plenty of witnesses.  He was Welsh, not Egyptian, but was beyond doubt a cultural brother of the Cairo driver!

 

What have we learned?  Nothing except the already well known but usually ignored lesson that profit will always take priority over safety and good practice.  More, more, faster, faster, it's like a porn film script.

[Baby Deltic]

[Tankerman]

2 minutes ago, Baby Deltic said:

 

Really like this, however since some on here firmly believe that someone who frequents a railway modelling forum cannot have any shipping knowledge, I would like to point out that the container ship is not owned by Evergreen. I know this because the decoration on the bow is that of APL. 

[Compound2632]

42 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Some of the responses here, and a larger number of the comments on the BBC iPlayer News website, are a little racist to my view

 

Well said.

[APOLLO]

If she were a German ship she would now be sailing at half a fart forwards !!!!!!

 

No Grosse Farting in the Suez Canal !!!!!

 

 

Brit15