Helston Revisited

[Andy Keane]

The Deltics first run - mightly impressed - its a massive heavyweight beast -just like the real thing (only smaller).

 

Edited July 15, 2022 by Andy Keane

[Regularity]

Not enough clag!

[Andy Keane]

2 hours ago, Regularity said:

Not enough clag!

Not sure I even know what clag is.

[Regularity]

Dirty smoke.

[5BarVT]

It’s what came in through the open quarter lights in copious quantities in Gasworks Tunnel if you sat in the first coach with one of the aforementioned on the front upon departure from Kings Cross.

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

It’s what came in through the open quarter lights in copious quantities in Gasworks Tunnel if you sat in the first coach with one of the aforementioned on the front upon departure from Kings Cross.

And it's what set off the smoke alarms in the first three coaches of the ECS from Craigentinny to Waverley for the Mark 3 sleeper press run in December 1981, as the train passed through Calton Tunnel. The first (and to the best of my knowledge only) time those vehicles were hauled by a Deltic.

Edited July 15, 2022 by St Enodoc
punctuation

[Andy Keane]

I guess realistic smoke (from both diesel or steam locos) remains the final frontier for 4mm scale modelling. I have never seen it done well but it would be amazinbg to have of course. For now I am still bowled over by just how good on-board sound has become with the sort of multiple speaker rigs that Accurascale currently use based on live recordings of the real thing.

I have also thought about weathering the Deltic but I just don't have the courage to try - it is such a beautiful thing I cannot bring myself to dirty it up. I have know idea what I will do with the Manor when it arrives as all my other GWR locos are grimed up.

[Regularity]

Realistic “smoke” is a big problem: the oils used generally produce grey output, rather than dark grey or nearly white. That said, the only time I saw Deltics in action was in the summer of 81, and I remember one of them putting out a fair amount of grey smoke, so it might work. Saw a unit in use on a 7mm scale diesel, with DCC control. Heater was applied for a few seconds and then the fan came into action as the engine started to move. It reminded me of (I think) Alycidon) in York that time. Unfortunately, the model was a class 31…

[Andy Keane]

Maybe somebody at a firm like Accurascale would do it if somebody got a good prototype system working. Would be much easier on a diesel than a steam loco where one needs chuffs.

[Andy Keane]

Just looking at big tanks - does anyone know what the difference is between the Hornby R3127 and R3225 2-8-2 tanks? They look to just differ by loco number but I wondered if I am missing something?

[The Stationmaster]

On 16/07/2022 at 12:29, Andy Keane said:

Just looking at big tanks - does anyone know what the difference is between the Hornby R3127 and R3225 2-8-2 tanks? They look to just differ by loco number but I wondered if I am missing something?

An accurate reflection of the weird history of the 72XX 2-8-2Ts.  R3127 is 7202 so it is a model of a first batch engine (7200-19 rebuilt from the final series of 52XX 2-8-0Ts (5275-94) which had spent their lives from new in store at Swindon.  Easy recognition point - the running plate rise over the cylinders.

 

R3128 on the other hand represents 7229 which represents the 2nd batch of 20  72XX (7220-39)which were rebuilt from the previous batch of 2-8-0Ts (5255-74) which had originally been built 4 years earlier than 5275-94 and had the original pattern of straight running plate with a 'square' drop end at the front.

 

Y The next, third, batch of 72XX (7240 -53) were rebulilt from even older 2-8-0Ts but were given new cylinders so had the curved drop end at the front plus the raised running plate over the cylinders.  Just to add a little more amusement the first batch of 72XX had the later, Collett, pattern of motion cross bar frame while both the second and third batches had the earlier, Churchward, pattern of motion cross bar frame.  So none of the three batches precisely matched any other batch as first converted.  

 

Bunker fenders also differed and just to add a touch of sauce to the mix various of the second batch engines were given new cylinders which altered their appearance at that end to match the third batch - i.e. they gaineda curved drop end and a raised running plate over the clinders.  Hornby in fact did rather well at getting the detail differences of the three batches of 72XX although the cab backsheet was a cheapskate job which let the side down somewhat.  So an amusing fact is about the 72XX class is that each successive new batch twas rebuilt from progressively older 42XX donors.  The third batch were rebuilt from any engine considered available and suitable with the third batch coming from engines orginally built as 2-8-0Ts between 1912 and 1916

 

Thus you can, depending on careful sorting of which engines got new cylinders when,  have at least three 72XX with different prominent detail andbe absolutely right

[Andy Keane]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

An accurate reflection of the weird history of the 72XX 2-8-2Ts.  R3127 is 7202 so it is a model of a first batch engine (7200-19 rebuilt from the final series of 52XX 2-8-0Ts (5275-94) which had spent their lives from new in store at Swindon.  Easy recognition point - the running plate rise over the cylinders.

 

R3128 on the other hand represents 7229 which represents the 2nd batch of 20  72XX (7220-39)which were rebuilt from the previous batch of 2-8-0Ts (5255-74) which had originally been built 4 years earlier than 5275-94 and had the original pattern of straight running plate with a 'square' drop end at the front.

 

Y The next, third, batch of 72XX (7240 -53) were rebulilt from even older 2-8-0Ts but were given new cylinders so had the curved drop end at the front plus the raised running plate over the cylinders.  Just to add a little more amusement the first batch of 72XX had the later, Collett, pattern of motion cross bar frame while both the second and third batches had the earlier, Churchward, pattern of motion cross bar frame.  So none of the three batches precisely matched any other batch as first converted.  

 

Bunker fenders also differed and just to add a touch of sauce to the mix various of the second batch engines were given new cylinders which altered their appearance at that end to match the third batch - i.e. they gaineda curved drop end and a raised running plate over the clinders.  Hornby in fact did rather well at getting the detail differences of the three batches of 72XX although the cab backsheet was a cheapskate job which let the side down somewhat.  So an amusing fact is about the 72XX class is that each successive new batch twas rebuilt from progressively older 42XX donors.  The third batch were rebuilt from any engine considered available and suitable with the third batch coming from engines orginally built as 2-8-0Ts between 1912 and 1916

 

Thus you can, depending on careful sorting of which engines got new cylinders when,  have at least three 72XX with different prominent detail andbe absolutely right

Wow! That certainly is a complex story. I could never justify such a beast at Helston but I am getting the bug of collecting nice green locos so thought about trying to get one. But I think I would have to be pretty far gone to get three. Which do you think is the most accurate of the Hornsby tanks as a starting point for some fettling?
Andy

[Graham T]

A "like" for the loco collecting bug; it's a common affliction!

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Wow! That certainly is a complex story. I could never justify such a beast at Helston but I am getting the bug of collecting nice green locos so thought about trying to get one. But I think I would have to be pretty far gone to get three. Which do you think is the most accurate of the Hornsby tanks as a starting point for some fettling?
Andy

Visually they aren't too bad and at one time there was a nice etched detailing kit available which at least sorted the 'orrible cab backsheet with an etched replacement.  I think then it really is down to personal taste and I have to admit that I like all of them although the second batch , as converted are rather nice with teh straight running plate and the original Churchward style drop front end of the running plate.

 

Take care when buying as some have a tendency for the front end  to do a Churchward and bend upwards.

[Andy Keane]

My Hattons 14xx has now re-appeared as 4806, complete with new lettering, new etched number plates, red lamp and a good dirtying over to boot (though clearly the fireman has been told to clean the etched plates - I masked them over when spraying on the dirt).

So now all in period (I hope) for the layout - I just need to tackle the auto-coach to match.

When doing this I took a whole series of photos and it continues to amaze how much the camera sees that you don't notice without very close scrutiny.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Andy Keane

[Graham T]

That looks very good Andy.  What did you use for the weathering?

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Take care when buying as some have a tendency for the front end  to do a Churchward and bend upwards.

Was Churchward known for up-bending?

I think, perhaps, we ought not to be told…

[Harlequin]

3 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Was Churchward known for up-bending?

I think, perhaps, we ought not to be told…

Perhaps a reference to his magnificent Edwardian 'tache?

 

[Andy Keane]

My weathering approach is a bit tedious but is goes like this (having changed all the lettering and plates to suit etc):

 

1) mask off areas you want kept clean such as window glass, headlamp lens on LED lamps, number plates on cab sides etc (I use a rubber based masking fluid which works very well)

2) use a rigger brush with dilute roof grime enamel paint to pin wash all the rivets, boiler bands, buffer details etc and clean back excess with white spirit on a cotton bud

3) spray the under gear with enamel track grime

4) spend hours cleaning the wheel and other elctrical contacts to restore good quality running as the paint goes everywhere

5) spray the top and a little down the sides with enamel roof dirt

6) remove the masking fluid to reveal clean windows etc

7) apply wethering powders (pale grey on foot steps and under smoke box door, dark rsut to axle boxes and the frames, soot to the upper works especially cab roof and around the smoke box)

8) take lots of photos and mutter about the bits that need fixing and repeat various steps above - I find the powders can cover up many sins provided you want a dirty loco which I mainly do.

 

Obviously this  is all complete overkill!

Andy

Edited July 19, 2022 by Andy Keane

[Regularity]

2 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Obviously this  is all complete overkill!

Not at all.

Weathering works best with multiple stages, different textures, and different techniques: wash, stipple, dry-brush and powders in that order. Cannot be done all at once.

[Gilbert]

4 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Obviously this  is all complete overkill!

Andy

Sounds completely reasonable to me......

ChrisH

[Andy Keane]

Just scratched an itch an purchased 2-8-2 number 7202 on ebay. Absolutely no real need but I do love a green loco. Another one for the weathering shop in due course.

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Regularity said:

Was Churchward known for up-bending?

I think, perhaps, we ought not to be told…

Not him but his 2 cylinder designs.  Because they used US style cast frame extensions at the front forward of the main frames the front end footplating and buffer beamhad a tendency to bend upwards under heavy or shock buffing pressure.  To counteract this a stay was added each side of the base of the smokebox/saddle casting to hold the buffer beam area down and stop it bending upwards.

[Regularity]

I knew what you meant, Mike.

[The Stationmaster]

20 hours ago, Regularity said:

I knew what you meant, Mike.

It's the others. 😄