Dymented - the Serious stuff starts!

[JeffP]

I've always painted sub-surfaces with PVA diluted about 60-40 glue to water brfore applying plaster to any difficult surface.

The bloke who does any plastering I need done in the UK does the same.

[Philou]

@JeffP I like that. I did consider diluted PVA, but having received the diluted paint advice, I put the idea to one side. It means that I can use my hand spray to apply rather than brush.

 

@Re6/6 Thanks for the confirmation as I hadn't considered diluted paint before. Now I have a choice! It'll be down to how much of each I have in stock.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[JeffP]

Paint seals the surface, and is useful for dusty or crumbly sub-surfaces.

 

PVA does the same, but if you use non-waterproof PVA, it bonds with the plaster as well as the wall when the wet plaster is applied, helping the plaster to stick.

 

At least, that's what Charlie, my tame plasterer explained to me.

[Philou]

Hi chums,

 

I managed to do all the little strips around the big timbers yesterday and I didn't have to open my new sack of MAP (drat!). My SiL is doing some big building works and I'll see if he needs some - otherwise anyone on here can have it for free, nada, zilch BUT you'll have to come and collect it or pay the postage (nett weight 27.5kg) :).

 

Today I went over to the club open day. There were 130 junior modules all daisy chained together and overall it was quite impressive. No public arrived until after lunch regardless that it was a free event - the doors had been open since 9.00am!

 

I was disappointed in the running of the modules as one problem arose in that the modules were not perfectly aligned horizontally - 120-odd interfaces - which cause some stock to derail at the board joints (note to oneself - don't have pointwork or curves starting at a joint). I raised the issue with Hon. Chair who said that part of the problem came down to the public (and some members) leaning on the modules and depressing the boards at their joints - fair comment.

 

Another problem that arose (especially on the DCC section) was poor electrical continuity - that was possibly down to poor soldered joints, poor contacts within the bus or not enough powered feeds (note to oneself to up one's soldering skills when the time comes).

 

However, the club members were enjoying themselves and the public seemed reasonably impressed - free innit.

 

Instead of boring pictures of my now-jointed plasterboard, here are a couple of pictures from today's open day. The pictures are not the best as I was avoiding the use of flash (too washed out otherwise) and the photos were taken at 1/15th second:

 

 

 

The one below (though very fuzzy) I have included as it shows a three-way split of boards and the source of one set of 'steps':

 

 

All the signals are protected by dead sections - red? no go:

 

 

 

Couple more to post up as the above have reached the 10Mb limit ..............................

[Philou]

Here are the rest:

 

 

 

We've really gone into digital - holding sidings illuminated with alphanumeric LEDs:

 

 

A non-club member's modelling - he drove all the way from Montauban - waaaaay down in the south-west, about 800km (500miles):

 

 

I've posted this one up to show the difference in approach between UK ballasting and French - mine's on the left. As you will see graded grains make for finer ballast, whereas .................................. it just grates with me as it's like budgie grit. It's actually waste sanding - er -sand but it's too round and not been sieved to try and achieve at least a scale size - I'm working on it:

 

 

Cheers everyone and have a good weekend,

 

Philip

 

 

[Philou]

Hello chaps and chapesses,

 

The curse of Reg Prescott came and visited me today - I cut my finger to the bone whilst painting. Eh? Read on .................

 

Having hummed and haa-ed regarding paint or PVA, I went for paint as I had a large, new tub of white vinyl from Lidl (don't laugh at the back) - it's good stuff and dirt cheap at 17.99€ compared to the one my BiL was suggesting - 168€ for 10l !! I diluted it down and set to. I'd done about one-half of the first ceiling panel when my neighbour popped over to have look. He's the ex-professional plasterer. Anyway, he had a good look and he too hummed and haa-ed and rubbed his hand over some of the joints and said 'It's not bad at all'. He then suggested that a quick way of achieving a smooth finish and little cost in time or materials is to get a lamp and shine it along the wall and tackle any high or low spots with a bit of sandpaper/filler as required, using a quality float, and then finish off with a second coat of paint - don't bother plastering. I looked at my stainless steel float and said 'Eek' as it was covered in dried out filler having overlooked it for cleaning the last time it was used. He saw what I saw, had a look and said it wasn't a problem as a putty knife would have that off in a jiff - didn't mention any fingers though.

 

He went back home and I decided to set-to cleaning the float before carrying on with the painting. Grabbing a scraper, I starting cleaning rather too vigorously and the scraper went under the float and there being no resistance, my finger decided that it would carry on and meet the float edge. I can tell you that for a blunt edge it doesn't half cut!! Fortunately, it was the top edge of my forefinger between the knuckle and the first joint and the bone stopped the fun before any real damage was done - not even a fountain of blood. Big grown-up words were said, a quick run under the tap plus an Elastoplast (TM) and I was as good as new - so good in fact that not only did I complete the ceiling but two of the walls as well. I reckon that's about 65m² done and another 40 to be done tomorrow:

 

 

 

I have to go round in all the corners with a mini-roller or a brush just to cut-in and finish off before filling and trimming. I also have to plaster around the Velux to tidy up. Even if I decided to cheat and not do any further filling, I would still need a second coat as you can see the paper strip showing through in the photo above, so may as well do it right. Even so, not too bad day's work - one step closer to getting some boards up!

 

Cheers everyone,

 

Philip

[Philou]

Hello chaps,

 

I finished the other two walls this morning and started cutting into the corners this pm. I've probably got a good day's work ahead for tomorrow to finish off. It's only now that the paint is on that the defects are coming to light - so once I've done the corners and the Velux, it'll have to be a bit of a rub-a-dub-dub - still not sure whether I shall just fill in the defects or do a plaster skim - it's a challenge waiting, innit.

 

I haven't posted any pictures today - it'll be akin to watching paint dry.

 

More tomorrow.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

PS: Thanks for all the sympathy icons - the finger is fine - just a small cut. At the time it was impressive as the flap of skin had curled under the rest - and there was no blood! Not straight away, anyway. All uncurled and a bandage to press well down on the cut and all was fine.

[Philou]

Well! I don't know what happened to Wednesday and Thursday - just a bit of cutting-in and the edge of the ceiling that hadn't been done (showing in the last photo above). Today was non-day due to Mrs Philou's son and partner plus baby arriving today so all hands on deck cleaning and preparing. So little was achieved especially as we had yet another lunchtime do (these dos are like buses - wait for ages and they all arrive together! Honest!) I have about 2hrs of work left touching up the edges nearest the floor.

 

As the young'uns are here, I have a funny feeling that work is going to progress in leaps and bounds I tell you, leaps and bounds.

 

Next week one day is booked for going to 'Big Town' for my electrical gubbins - hoorah - but I still haven't decided whether just to paint or go for a plaster skim. What do YOU think I should do?

 

For: It's a challenge, it'll give a nice smooth finish ready for painting the background to the layout and I shall regret not trying to do it.

 

Against: It's extra work, it'll need a coat of paint anyway (plastered or not), it'll mean delaying the start of the layout and I shall possibly regret having done it!

 

Had Artex still been a thing, I would have done the ceiling in that and just attempted doing the walls - but since asbestos is a no-no, the newer Artex-type coatings just aren't the same.

 

Update tomorrow and a couple of photos showing the state of play.

 

Cheers all and enjoy the weekend,

 

Philip

[Philou]

Hello chums,

 

Finally, I didn't post up yesterday due to calls on my time. I did manage to seal the walls and ceiling completely though. Tomorrow I might be allowed to play a while with some plaster. I found out yesterday that one of the metal corner strips to the one Velux window was poorly aligned with the three others (or it slipped while the plaster was curing - probably down to me) and I shall want to re-set it before I can plaster around it. The step is just too important as it won't allow for a decent angled finish. I think once that has re-cured I shall plaster the low wall (the dark end) and the ceiling immediately adjacent to it (also the dark end). If I make dog's breakfast out of it, it will be less noticeable. I shall in that case call it a day and just paint them and the remaining walls and ceiling.

 

Here are some photos showing everything having had its first coat of sealing paint:

 

 

 

 

It was such a nice today that we had a raclette outside whereas a number of other neighbours did barbies - probably the last outside lunch this side of Christmas. Who'd have thunk it - barbies on the 30th of October. I just hope it won't mean a hard winter!

 

Cheers everybody,

 

Philip

[Philou]

I had a dilemma. The bag of Knauf Rotband that I bought (it's what all the Dutch use around here) is for 10mm thick, or more, coats. I suspect it's more akin to browning plaster, whereas what I really wanted was a thistle plaster just to get that thin, hard, smooth finish. I will probably look to be getting just something to skim off where there are noticeable defects and then paint. I had another look at the wall today, as I was brushing and scraping the floor, and it isn't too bad. Couple of seams to sand off and a few trowel marks to fill in and all should be good for some paint.

 

No updates for a few days as life will take me out of the railway room - tomorrow is a 'bank holiday' here and I have 'other things that must be done' to keep me busy until Friday!!

 

Toodle pip,

 

Philip

[Philou]

Not really an update as nothing much has happened due to 'other things must be done'. Having gone to the 'Big Town', I went to B&Q (I kid you not - Castorama as it's known here - both owned by the Kingfisher group) and spotted a large tub of good quality paint (V33) that covers 'imperfections'. This has now made my decision for me - a quick scrape/sand/infill as required of any visible defects and a liberal coating of paint. This will take me three days - and as light is now fading earlier so may it take longer.

 

I did also get a new consumer unit - 8 RCBs and 2 Differentials plus space for up to 26 RCBs (or equivalents) for the princely sum of €90. I did get awfully confused regarding sockets and switches and their prices - Legrand is the big name over here with Schneider and ABB following behind. Trouble is you can't buy complete sets of anything as, for example, there won't be surface mounting boxes in stock for one make but for another and none are compatible with each other, or the price difference between one store and another can be quite marked. Pfff ..... at my age trying to remember what the prices are between stores ........ However, I have decided to go back to our local 'not quite so Big Town' that has a discount store that is very competitive (having seen prices in other stores today) especially regarding reels of 2.5 and 1.5mm² cable - I need 1.2km (yes 1.2 kilometres) of assorted single strand, and the big named brand sockets and switches are available in trade packs of 6 that are also very reasonable - some come with dry-wall back boxes included too, and I shall need plenty of them. Where I shall lose out a bit is that the surface mounting boxes and less common items (USB charging sockets for example) are slightly more expensive unfortunately. But they're having 10% off tomorrow and Saturday - what have I to lose?

 

One thing I have noticed in trying to buy lighting for the rest of the barn - neon tubes consume LESS power than their LED equivalents and are half the price! Am I missing something?

 

Speak soon,

 

Philip

[magmouse]

9 hours ago, Philou said:

neon tubes consume LESS power than their LED equivalents and are half the price! Am I missing something?

Possibly - you also need to compare the light output and the lifetime of each unit:

 

If the LED fittings are using more energy, then they should be producing a lot more light - if they are not more efficient than the fluorescent tubes, you need to find some other LEDs…
 

Also, how many times will you have to change the fluorescent tubes during the life of the LED unit? Will you even be able to buy the tubes in 10 years, when hopefully the LED units are still going strong?

 

Finally, but possibly importantly for a railway room, what colour temperature do you want (daylight, or warmer), and how good is the colour rendering of each fitting? This is all a bit of a minefield, but worth getting right if this lighting will be in your layout room - and actually, I would say it’s worth getting right for any room you occupy for any length of time.

 

I’m not trying to ‘sell’ you the LEDs, but these are the additional questions and comparisons I would be thinking about.

 

Nick.

[JeffP]

Regarding tubes:

I replaced twin neon that was rated at 2 x 58W with an led fitting having two tubes rated at 70W total.

The new fitting is instant, (the neon had a pause after switching on  and needed 10-15 seconds to reach full brightness), and 35% cheaper to run.

 

Regarding electrical stuff.

eBay is your friend.

I've had mcbs at 8 euros each, RCD's at 40 euros, double sockets at 13 euros complete, even telerupteur at only 20 euros.

Worth an hour browsing.

Plenty of stuff is new, "end of job," so cheap.

I get my stuff delivered to a set of lockers in the next village.

Edited November 4, 2022 by JeffP

[Philou]

@magmouse I was looking specifically at changing our Ikea 'Godmorgon' units that I have used as kitchen under-wall cupboard lights. There were some LED panels that would fit lengthwise but are wider (not a problem) giving a light output of 5500 lumens each, IIRC. However, they consume 22W each compared to the current tubes that are rated 13W. The tubes I have never replaced in the 10 years that they have been in use, though they are starting to show some discolouration at their ends so they're due for renewal soon. As Mrs Philou was actively looking to reduce our power consumption, I didn't see what gain we would make by changing the units at €49.95 each x 3. I have a longer 'Godmorgon' unit that I cannot replace with a similar unit that Mrs P. saw due to its width. I shall investigate LED tubes, but I wasn't enamoured by the one tube that I had bought as a replacement in the barn that died within three months - it cost over €20 at the time.

 

The railway room will be done in LED panels plus LED strip (colour adjustable) over the layout itself.

 

@JeffP I had a look on t'intertubes but there was no gain price-wise, particularly with the 10% off this weekend. I think the discounters are unable to cut back their margins as much as they used to be able to.

 

No work today as we have visitors and I'm off to get the electrical bits this afternoon. Luckily, I went into the barn this morning and double checked what I had in stock as I found one reel of each P, N and E in 2.5mm² so that's a saving of 300m of mains cable.

 

More tomorrow - toodle pip,

 

Philip

[JeffP]

Good saving.

A 100 m reel of 3G 2.5 sq mm was 150euros in Brico Marche just before we left.

Most of ours was brought over from from Screwfix in the correct colours, single core, and threaded into conduit, rigid where I couldn't hide it.

When we bought the house the whole place was "protected" by one 16A ceramic fuse, with no earth.

But I've had substantial savings by buying end of job bundles off eBay.

[Philou]

3 hours ago, JeffP said:

whole place was "protected" by one 16A ceramic fuse, with no earth.

 

@JeffP Pah, that's nothing. In the family house not far from where Mrs P. and I live, last year I discovered the live 3-phase (380v) incoming - no cover, no nothing, half-buried in plaster - from where the 220v was tapped off - how did I find that then?

 

It's a relic from when the French system was 110v and you had to have 3-phase for washing machines and dishwashers. We had those as there was up to 14 of us staying with the grandparents during the summer holidays BUT the clothes iron was plugged into a two-pin socket that was in turn plugged into the bayonet light socket, it being powered by cotton covered twin core. My grand dad and I got rid of all the cotton covered stuff in 1968, a year or two after conversion to 220v. There still are three porcelain lead wire fuses 'protecting' the house wiring. Apparently, it's now illegal to buy fuse wire over here. The whole place needs to be rewired and brought up to 2022 standards - but the place is huge. To give some idea of 'big', the lounge became the German Army cinema when the house was the Kommandantur in WWII.

 

Back to more local happenings: I have gone and bought sockets and light switches, cable in 100m lengths in 'standard' colours (blue, brown, yellow/green plus purple - yeah purple - for two-way lighting circuits, plus red used as an unswitched phase in a two-way lighting circuit over here). The 2.5mm² cable was €28.90 a reel. I also got a number of junction boxes to make 'droppers' down to switches and sockets as needed. Annoyingly, the supplier, Brico Cash, had no single pattresses for surface mounted sockets. The ones they had weren't deep enough and I think they'd be too shallow even for light switches. I shall let my fingers do the walking for those tomorrow as I shall need 15 of them as the main warehouse just doesn't have them (weird or what?).

 

It blew a huge hole in the budget and it's not finished as I shall also need to get some new lighting units over the next week or so :((( .

 

So, what's next? Tomorrow will be rub-a-dub-dub time with my sander and then back filling any depressions. I need to tidy up around the Velux so that probably will take care of a day or two and then painting the top coat. Straight after will be the electrical works in the barn (brownie points to be earned) and only then, the railway room. I shall tackle the lighting circuits first as it's dark now in all parts of the barn and once it's 'let there be light', I can do the mains - yay! Still no boards though :(( .

 

Hopefully tomorrow will be a proper progress report.

 

Cheers everyone and have a good weekend,

 

Philip

 

[Philou]

Proper progress report incoming!! Things did not go as planned. The railway room was decidedly chilly this morning and as brownie points were at stake, I forewent painting and decided to some electrics instead. I also remembered why I dislike French electrical equipment - no room to feed the wiring into the back of sockets - everything is jammed into place. Oh, to have surface boxes to BS1363.

 

Notwithstanding, I had a rummage in my pile and found that I had missed one or two items that I quickly added to the next shopping list. It's surprising how money just disappears. This was over £700 worth:

 

 

And here is the new consumer unit in its final location and it is horizontal, it's the wall that slopes - honest. The double plug took well over an hour to wire up :((( :

 

 

You can also see to its right, just how rubbish cheap electricals are over here. I shall probably swap the tails in the RCB as they're currently (oops - sorry) in a 16A outlet and as it's to be the main barn circuit, I'll up it to a 20A instead as I do have a huuuuuge circular saw used for cutting my logs to length and its rated at 16A (3500W). I like to have a bit of a margin especially as there may be other tools in use.

 

Not much will be done tomorrow due to a birthday lunch - yeah, well, another one. At my age, I take advantage of those that come along as you just don't know when the next one may be .............. Nonetheless, I shall do a bit - even if it's screwing a couple clips in place ready for the conduit.

 

Cheers everyone,

 

Philip

[Philou]

Hello chums and chumesses,

 

Birthday party over and a bit the worse for wear, I fear *hic*. I just can't do alcohol - never did much before - but as age increases it seems that I tolerate it less and less (or is it they serve more and more and I don't notice?).

 

Anyway, good lunch was had.

 

I did manage to a little bit this morning by way of fixing some clips for the conduit and I'm pleased the way it looks. Gentle curves were achieved that'll make the threading of cable later easier. As I bought conduit that was over-sized I can thread the lighting and the mains cable in one conduit rather than two, that, in turn, means that I have managed to work out some routes that will make savings in both conduit and cable - which means I've probably over-bought cable. We'll see.

 

I shall continue clipping tomorrow and I'll post up a picture or two then.

 

For those that work tomorrow, good luck,

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

 

[5BarVT]

19 minutes ago, Philou said:

Birthday party over and a bit the worse for wear, I fear *hic*. I just can't do alcohol - never did much before - but as age increases it seems that I tolerate it less and less (or is it they serve more and more and I don't notice?).

Based on an independent sample of two, I can advise that we believe it to be tolerance, not quantity that drives this effect.

Paul.

[JeffP]

Have you downloaded the "Normes Francaises" for your electrics?

They used to be available free on the Hager website.

I'm intrigued as to why you have two RCDs.

I assume you are aware of simple rules like cable sizes, no ring main, number of sockets allowed per spur circuit/room, not spurring one socket off another?

Sorry if it's all old hat.

 

Last time I was in Brico Marche they had the Legrand double sockets with covers in both unwired and hard wired. I'm sure the hard wired would save time and space and was only a couple of Euros dearer.

[Philou]

@JeffP I have already a copy of the NF, but things have recently changed - especially in some of the colours for wiring. It used to be purple in a two-way circuit linking the switches but they are now brown with the purple used as the feed to the light(s). When you buy a 'tableau' with RCDs/mcbs included, there are always two - the upper one in the photo is for 'dry' circuits, whereas the lower is for 'wet' items, such as washing machines and dishwashers. To be absolutely frank, I have no idea what the differences are - I just go with the pictogrammes, though in my case, there are no 'wet' items so I shall spread the load over both. I shall have my log cutter on the 'wet' circuit just in case as I do all my cutting outside.

 

I knew about cable sizes - not too different to UK standards though if you want a cooker it's 4mm² and a hob 6mm² - just as well we're on bottled gas for the hob! I was aware of the no ring main rule (you can do it, but it's frowned upon due the possibility of the circuit becoming unbalanced and a lot of 'whataboutery'), but I seem to have seen a circuit where it was allowable to spur a single socket - but not exceeding the total per daisy chain.

 

The Legrand double socket was one given to me as surplus to requirements - I gratefully accepted it as they're mighty expensive and the IP55s even more so.

 

My only concern is that originally, I had intended just to do a couple of mains and lighting circuits from a mini-consumer unit that I had in stock. This was to be fed from the main consumer unit in the house off its dedicated 20A mcb - but as I seem to have decided to go the whole hog with a completely new consumer unit I think I need a man what does electrickery to now pull two 6mm² cables through the existing conduit back into the Electricity Board's main circuit - there's about 20m between the barn and the house with a fair number of bends along the way - let him do all the hard work!

 

Back to job in hand, I did say I'd post up a picture or two today, but in the end it's just a load of plastic clips and junction boxes screwed to the woodwork - not much would show up in a photo! I'll post up when the conduit is being clipped into place.

 

No work again tomorrow - yet another birthday lunch! However, it's a rather special one as it's Mrs Philou's **th one. She is not a happy bunny about the numbers - but I'm 2 years older than her and I certainly don't feel my 72 years of age - oh, I've let the cat out of the bag! ;)

 

Cheers everybody and have a good evening,

 

Philip

[JeffP]

Wet and dry RCD's is actually Type A and Type AC.

The first is for anything that MIGHT create DC eddy currents, ie: things having very large motors, induction hobs etc. But can aldo be used for lighting, sockets etc.

The second for anything else.

 

On my second tableau, which runs electrics in the part of the house that used to be a barn, and the existing barn and lean to, I have 3 rows, including 3 RCD's.

One is a type A and I've ensured that the washing machine, large freezer, socket for the electric chainsaw and outdoor shredder etc are protected by it.

There are around 36 mcb's.

The original box had provision to take 16sq mm "spurs" to a second box, so that's what I did.

Most difficult job is bending them to make connections...and drilling a 30 mm hole through a metre thick stone wall.

[Philou]

2 hours ago, JeffP said:

and drilling a 30 mm hole through a metre thick stone wall

 

Ha! I've only had 500mm to drill through. Thank you for the explanation regarding eddy currents - I've learnt something new today. There are specially shaped connectors (flat large gauge copper) to link the two rows with enough space in the holes to take 6mm² tails.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Philou]

Hello chums,

 

I do have an update today, despite not getting much done due to lunches, shopping for bits, November 11th Commemoration followed by liquid lunch (again!), I have completed in clips for the barn circuit, and half the clips for the other two. This afternoon I started clipping the conduit in place but unfortunately bad light stopped play when I was halfway done on the barn circuit. Tomorrow is an all-day club session with a post-mortem on the Open Day, so no electrics. As Hon. Treas. I can at least report (in the interim and not finalised accounts for the day) we had a small but acceptable surplus.

 

Here are a few photos. The first shows the consumer unit with the conduit to the railway room and the barn in place:

 

 

The next two show the circuit for the barn WIP - my word, it is far off the ground! :

 

 

 

I really ought to take the old stuff down now, especially as I'm up the ladder!

 

More on Sunday,

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Philou]

Hello chaps and chapesses,

 

Gosh, the weekend seems so far away already! Not a lot to show yet as it's been mainly fixing clips to timberwork and drilling walls for the wall plugs where necessary. What I can tell you though, is that the consumer unit has all the incoming conduits attached and that all the conduits starting from there are complete within the main barn (circuits 3 and 4). The railway room and main barn conduits were completed earlier. I did also take down the old circuit whilst I was up the ladder.

 

Tomorrow will be a full day clipping and conduiting and despite rationalising the circuits, I may need some more conduit by Friday - hey ho.

 

Pictures definitely for tomorrow.

 

Toodle pip,

 

Philip