Dymented - the Serious stuff starts!

[JeffP]

I can heartily recommend a Magnusson laser level, available, i believe, from Brico Depot.

Mine has done service putting up metal framing for plasterboard, marking out to cut holes for LED downlights, marking light fitting positions down the centre of a corridor, tiling, fitting kitchen units, fitting worktops , fitting splashbacks and even fitting a sort of dado (made from the edge offcuts of long planks), between rendering and exposed stonework.

[Philou]

@JeffP Thanks for that. Did you know that Brico Depot is part of the Kingfisher group that is also B&Q? I've bought a shed load of stuff in there but never thought of a level - good idea that.

 

I do have something to report today - taa daa:

 

I've actually cut and placed ALL my rails:

 

 

 

I finished late afternoon and went downstairs and into the house to get the camera and whilst my back was turned, I was gone about 5mins., squatters moved in!!!!:

 

 

They were gone later. The next job, that I do not like, is to extend the lighting conduit and place the fibreglass rolls in situ. It'll be complete rolls at a time plus one-half in each bay. Thanks to Covid, we have plenty of masks in stock. Job after that is to cut and place the plasterboard.

 

I may not get much done tomorrow morning as I am on babysitting duty - we'll see how it goes for the afternoon.

 

Cheers everyone, stay safe and good modelling,

 

Philip

[Graham T]

Nice to see that our feathered friends appreciate your work!

[SR71]

Sorry you've just triggered me. Mrs SR71 would now be mocking me were I talking not typing.

 

Make sure the mask you use is the right rating. Check the insulation manufacturers material safety data sheet (MSDS) for what you should be using. Using the wrong mask is often worse than using no mask at all because you breath heavier against it and breath more in as a consequence.

 

A lot of general COVID masks are meant to keep coughs in rather than other things out. Even if the insulation is biosoluble - which it should be if bought in Europe - you still don't want a lung full of it.

 

Nagging know-it-all out.

 

Your doing a great job btw, enjoy seeing your progress with each update.

[Philou]

17 hours ago, Graham T said:

Nice to see that our feathered friends appreciate your work!

Yeah, the twitterati. I don't know if they appreciate it or just telling me to get-with-it so they can move in in peace and quiet. There is a couple that fly around three or four times a day. I would have thought it was too late in the year for nest-building as they're usually gone from these parts in late September. I didn't say (at least I don't think I did) that I have another brood of swallows - four in all - and they're nearly big enough to fly the nest.

 

A small update - I managed to insulate 4 of the 6 bays today - despite a round of babysitting. Have you ever tried raising a mattress above your head and then sliding it into a slot?  I cut the rolls in two in the end as the insulation was just too floppy over its full length and I didn't want to spread too much dust, but it's in place.

 

@SR71 Thanks for the reminder of the masks. I have a PP wotsit (duck's beak) that appears to be quite effective though I don't know of its rating for use with insulation. The worst part of the insulation is the dust that gets into your clothing and hair.

 

I did also put in place the conduit but I took it down again as it was getting in the way. It makes little difference as it's now cut to the right length and I shall thread it between the rails and the insulation which will keep it in place.

 

Tomorrow's job will be the finishing of the two bays and then all the little fiddly infills at each end. Hopefully, I shall get to cut at least one length of plasterboard and put it into place - but that might be raising my expectations a little too high.

 

Cheers everyone,

 

Philip

[JeffP]

I insulated our grenier over two visits last year, spreading the work AND the cost. Insulation is very dear like most things in France🙄

I wore a warehousemans coat, bobble hat, old hoody with hood up, rubber gloves, goggles and a decent mask.

I could work for about two hours in that lot. After each session every item was taken outside and shaken out.

I used the 100 mm stuff with a fairly stiff paper backing. It comes in packs of 8, I seem to remember, around 1200 x 600 mm.

Each panel was cut with an old kitchen knife, (the beams were very uneven), and is held in place by friction with a continous length of nylon string stapled in a zig-zag pattern between each pair of beams.

Awful job.

Edited August 18, 2022 by JeffP

[Philou]

On 18/08/2022 at 09:37, JeffP said:

Insulation is very dear like most things in France

I'm using nothing but Knauf products and I concur. The rolls are 1200x2700x100 and cost €39 each. Rockwool comes in 'bats', as you mentioned, 600x1200x100, that I have used before. Rockwool is very good as it is intumescent. There are also much cheaper rolls of insulation but the R values don't quite match those of Knauf and I am concerned about the dust and fibres that they may produce. I did bring umpteen rolls from the UK over 15 years ago that cost the princely sum of £1 each!! Trouble was once unravelled it almost fell to bits :( . I did as you did, jam fit and then twine zig-zagged underneath until it was ready to be plasterboarded.

 

Here we are yesterday's work showing the roof space now completed insulated:

 

 

 

I also managed to wiggle the conduit between the insulation and the rails. This next photo came as a pleasant surprise. This is all that is left of 14 rolls of insulation - as you can see, very little waste. Just behind the pile is an insulation cutting knife made by Fiskars - it's quite good though it's probably getting a bit blunt as it was already second-hand when it was passed on to me by a professional roofer when he retired. It's done two houses (walls and rooves) since I acquired it. I don't think it's possible to have it resharpened (at least not locally) due to a complex blade shape.

 

 

Lastly, I made mention one post up that the brood of swallows were ready to fly - well they did - round and round the barn yesterday and today - gone!! They are still about but don't come indoors :(.

 

 

This morning, I did about a third of the roof space with plasterboard and tomorrow morning I should get the next third done. I'll post some photos tomorrow.

 

Cheers everyone and have a good weekend,

 

Philip

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Philou
Missing word

[Philou]

Hello everyone,

 

I missed out an update yesterday as it was just more plasterboarding. In the afternoon, I decided to some clubbing instead. Turned out to be just Hons. Chairman, Secretary and I! Everyone else was on holiday or had been at the club during the week. Hon. Chairman keeps the doors open all week during the summer holidays especially for the Junior Members who may not be able to get away (the area is not very affluent).

 

We are having a Junior Module open day (free entry) in October with 130 assorted modules of various shapes and forms all created by the Juniors (with assistance from the Seniors). Should be quite entertaining as it will be both DCC and DC. One half of the modules allocated to each power mode with one 'exchange' module that will be one-train-in-steam under DCC or DC control. Train enters, loco uncouples and reverses out-of-section, power switched and new loco enters and picks up train and heads off into the 'other' territory. I have been assured that due to clever electricky, DC locos won't get fried!

 

Onto my work - all the ceiling plasterboard is done including the trimming. I'm not getting involved in scrimming and jointing etc., until I have done the walls. This will be Stages 2 and 3 as I need to spread the spend - Mrs Philou and I, have a late summer holiday abroad (nowhere fancy and within Eurozone - we both like the Canaries and we're going to Fuertaventura for the first time), the holiday will need to be within the budget spend too!!

 

Tomorrow, I'm having a slow day tidying up the floor and bagging all the waste ready for skipping. I have an industrial vacuum cleaner (not a 'Henry') somewhere that I shall need to get working. In the afternoon I shall be working out what materials I need (rails, uprights, insulation and plasterboard, plus some conduit and no doubt screws).

 

I was very lucky in my calculations as I ended up with no boards left in stock, but a rather big pile of small odd-sized off-cuts. I had allowed 10% wastage, but I don't think I have that quantity as waste.

 

Here are some photos. Yeah, there is a step in the ceiling as I set it at 2.4m, as I could secure both ends of the sub-ceiling to the purlins via the trusses shown in an earlier post. Any higher and one end would have been floating requiring securing to the rafters instead. As the rafters are at all different centres I didn't want to lose my modular approach, again as detailed earlier. I shall now make a feature the exposed purlins by staining them instead (probably a dark colour):

 

 

 

 

Cheers everyone,

 

Philip

 

 

[Philou]

Pseudo-Henry came out of his hidey-hole covered in dust and off he went. Finally, it took me until about 4pm before the place looked clean. I took the opportunity to vacuum the Big Beam, so that's ready for a lick of staining, and to sort out the waste for recycling. The cobwebs were black - eueuw - but no big black spiders to match!

 

I shall do the quantities later this evening so I can work out the budgetary split before I visit Mr Builders' Merchant and order the goods, as we're going into town tomorrow.

 

Tomorrow? After town, it'll be dismantling the 'dead man's hand' and marking the floor ready for the rails and uprights. I shan't be doing much, if anything, in the afternoon as the temperature is going to be 31° again - tho' I will be testing the effect of the insulation!

 

Cheers everyone and have a good week,

 

Philip

[Philou]

Hello chums and chumesses,

 

Well, just about 4 calendar months to go before Christmas - and the question arises will I have finished the room by then? Only time and money will tell.

 

Down to today's business. This was the state of play Wednesday lunchtime - a load of Meccano and other bits to play within a surprisingly clean room:

 

 

I started by marking out and laying and fixing the floor and ceiling rails and by lunchtime I had some uprights cut to length and temporarily clipped into position and by the afternoon, they were fixed and some insulation threaded squished behind. I had to take down every other upright down as it was impossible to manhandle the insulation blanket without it flopping all over the place:

 

 

 

This morning I set-to with gusto and had all the uprights that fit into the sloped area cut at an appropriate angle (thank you Mr Rabone and Chesterman - that adjustable square that cost £3.95 years ago has come in very useful). By lunchtime, most of the insulation was in place, but I had to hold off doing the rest as I had no more polyurethane foam to seal the join between the wall and the ceiling. To be sorted first thing tomorrow. Just to amuse myself - and before I forgot - I threaded my conduit into place and before calling it for a day, managed to place one piece of plasterboard in place. It's looking better already:

 

 

 

The real fun will be when I have to do the second sheet of plasterboard! I have feeling that Monday, I'll be shopping for materials again.

 

Cheers everyone,

 

Philip

Edited August 26, 2022 by Philou

[Philou]

Hello chums,

 

Great leaps and bounds today. Most, most of the plasterboard is now up - I have two angled pieces to cut and place tomorrow plus a triangular piece of insulation to tuck away. One rectangular trimmer and the job will be jobbed. Tomorrow afternoon will definitely be a do-little afternoon:

 

 

 

I was so lucky that I hadn't dismantled the 'dead man's hand' as I was able to lift the higher pieces horizontally and when at the right height, I just tipped the tray over so that the piece was edge-to-edge with the lower one and holding steady with one hand screwed one screw approximately centrally and that was it. I was then able to put all the other screws in at my leisure.

 

Cheers everyone and have a brill weekend!

 

Philip

 

[Graham T]

Beginning to look like something of a transformation!

[Philou]

Yay! Last piece of plasterboard went in this morning and tomorrow off to Monsieur le Builder's Merchant to load up with another wall's worth of materials. It'll be much the same as last week's little escapade excepting that the next wall has a definite kink and the new drywall will follow it. I shall post up pictures as work progresses - as @Graham T says above it's the beginning of a transformation.

 

I have had a minor hiccough via the post: A letter from the planning department (the DDT over here) asking me the colour of the windows (well clear they're glass, though they mean the metalwork - grey) and more importantly for taxation purposes, what floor area have I created? Technically, I haven't as there always was a floor until I burnt the planks about 4 years ago as they were rotten (I fell through them) but I have no photographs of the floor as was. I only have the old joists prior to their removal, in photos.

 

I did renew the floor but at a new and horizontal level. Are they going to believe me that no new floor space has been created? I don't really want to pay more council tax and is it really living space? We shall see.

 

Cheers everyone,

 

Philip

[Graham T]

From my experience, if the b***ers can think of a way to tax you, then they will!

[Andy Hayter]

I think if it is declared as workshop/artistic studio, no increase in taxes are due since these are non-habitable.  You may however be charged for declaring that.

[Philou]

Good afternoon everyone,

 

More goods and sundries were collected this morning from M. le Marchand de Builders - I decided I'd blow the budget for the month as my neighbour M. le Gendarme (retired) lent me his trailer and it seemed rude not to fill it up (fuel saving etc.). I should now have enough materials to do two walls that'll keep me going for two weeks. I shall leave the final wall until the holidays are over - unless I get itchy fingers:

 

 

Today having humped everything, bar the plasterboard, upstairs, I called it quits. I did however, mark out and position the floor rail and mark out ready for tomorrow, the position of the ceiling rail.

 

Here's yesterday's finale:

 

 

Have a grand afternoon everyone,

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

Edited August 29, 2022 by Philou
Forgot photo

[Graham T]

I'd have thought that itchy fingers are almost certainly in your near future, if you're going to be handling all that insulation...

[Philou]

@Graham T Been there - done that! I do have a pair of industrial quality gloves AND a PP mask that seems to be efficient. I also wear long-sleeved shirts that are not tucked in at the waistband thus avoiding fibres getting caught in the waistband area. The eyes are trickier as now and again I end the day with them being a little red - but I have some eyewash for that.

[Philou]

Hi chums,

 

No picture today, I came in just as it started to thunder and lightning, very, very frightening. Oh mama mia! The rain then started and so I decided to have a shower (no, not under the rain, silly). I'll take a photo tomorrow. Not a lot to show other than all my studwork is in place ready for my insulation - working tomorrow morning only as Mrs Philou's sister and her hubby are arriving for lunch, and family lunches here last for evah!!

 

Cheers everybody,

 

Philip

[Philou]

Hello chums and chumesses,

 

I was right - lunch lasted a long time today, so I didn't get anything done this pm. I did, however, crack on this morning and all the insulation has been cut and placed in position. I don't quite understand but I seem to have at least one roll too many for finishing the next wall. It won't go to waste as it'll be recycled into the last wall.

 

Here we go. State of play yesterday afternoon:

 

 

 

......... and this morning's job:

 

 

 

I had to use a different grade of insulation as M. Builders' Marchand had none left of the one I was using. When I slit the roll open, this popped out! It was enormous!

 

 

I hope that I shall continue good progress tomorrow doing the plasterboard. I really feel encouraged by what is happening AND all your encouragement - it does make a difference!

 

Cheers everyone,

 

Philip

[Philou]

Something's not right!!

 

This happened this today:

 

 

 

S'done. Finished. Am I getting the hang of this drywalling malarkey? I finished it mid-afternoon. No particular errors (well, none to which I shall admit). What it has shown up, that I cannot now correct, is the new floor is not flat - one particular hog became apparent, though in a non-critical area, fortunately. I think it's down to the way the planking dried last autumn. I shall live, and the modules will have adjustable feet anyway. (The gap, by the way, is the gap created by the shrinking of the planks - I'm still waiting on the sawmill for my replacements).

 

I don't want to get too far ahead of myself as I'll soon have not a lot to do (it's only a budgetary concern, though funds ARE available if needs be).

 

I went to see Mr Maaayorrrr (in my best Larry the Lamb voice) regarding the letter from the planners. Transpires that I should have filled in EVERYTHING even if it was 0 or N/A. I had just filled in the parts relevant to what I was doing :( .

 

I duly put 0s everywhere and M le Maire was more than happy. Copy made and no sooner done Madame la Sécretaire had popped it in an envelope and in the post it went. Very efficient!

 

Tomorrow, I start the third wall that should, should, not take too long - it's only 1.6m high.

 

Have a good evening everybody,

 

Philip

 

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Philou

[Graham T]

So can we expect to see some baseboards being built soon?  🥸

[Philou]

@Graham T In the immediate future? No. I shall need to finish the last wall (not really been shown in any of the photos) and then once done it's all the bits to finish the wall and ceiling (jointing, scrimming, plastering and painting). I shall do that in one hit - probably a wall a day for example - and then there will be the electrics. I promised Mrs Philou that I would also do the barn electrics at the same time - we had a short somewhere and I never was able to determine where it was - so no lights or power in the barn at the mo'. Complete new circuits for the barn and the railway room to be fed by a subsidiary consumer unit within the barn (I just hope the short is not in the feed to the barn itself - dratted dormice and pine martins!). That will take more than a few days to sort out as I will need to do at least two two-way lighting circuits - not difficult, just extra cabling - plus separating out various power and other lighting circuits.

 

Then, and only then will I start baseboards. I am hoping that by the end of October that the boards will be underway.

 

I probably made mention earlier of the construction that I intend to use. Boards no wider than 900mm (including corner ones) constructed from 10mm ply. Sides will be 100mm deep as will cross-members with bolts and wing nuts to hold together. I haven't decided yet whether I shall have solid or open tops - I think it will very much depend on the amount of landscaping to be created. I see little point having a solid top only to cover it up with landscaping. An open top solves the problem of what to do if you have rivers/embankments and the like.

 

I have no set board length as I want to arrange things so the board joints do not coincide with any pointwork above. Cross-members will have lots of circular holes cut out to save weight and to allow cable runs. Small boards will also mean that Mrs Philou will be more likely to let me work indoors if the weather gets too cold (I am developing a strategy of being able to work on one board plus one either side to ensure continuity of track/scenery across the joints).

 

The layout will be aimed primarily for DCC operation and I will be providing a dedicated wifi to allow smart phones to be used in conjunction with a base station (ECoS II in my case). As only half my stock is chipped then DC will also be used - for a temporary period only (or if visitors have no DCC equipped stock).

 

Pointwork will be analogue with mimic boards at strategic locations but the point motors will need to provided with auto DPDT switches as I am going for electrofrogs (not uni- ones if I can avoid them as I consider that they look pig-ugly, YMMV of course). I can't get my head around the need to change screens to enable pointwork to be operated - I like things visual and real - not virtual. Oh, and of course big red 'do not touch' buttons so if there is a disaster in the making - power to the track can be cut off.

 

'Ey up - all that to say 'not yet'. :))

 

Cheers everyone - tomorrow is the end of the week and the weekend starts!!

 

Philip

[JeffP]

As far as electrics are concerned, a few minutes searching ebay.fr will turn up RCD's, mcb's, (disjoncteurs), an enclosure, switches, sockets etc etc at about 2/3 price of even Brico Depot.

In such a large space, I'd go for multiple light switches in press button type, and a telerupteur, (like a flip-flop switch, available as silencieux, which is electronic, or simple solenoid, fits in one space in the box).

If searching eBay, remember to put in the brand of electrical bits you prefer, and watch out for some vendors who put silly prices on for delivery.

I got a box of ten Legrand mcb's for E80 delivered in my choice of rating, and RCD's were half price!

Good luck.

 

[Graham T]

13 hours ago, Philou said:

@Graham T In the immediate future? No. I shall need to finish the last wall (not really been shown in any of the photos) and then once done it's all the bits to finish the wall and ceiling (jointing, scrimming, plastering and painting). I shall do that in one hit - probably a wall a day for example - and then there will be the electrics. I promised Mrs Philou that I would also do the barn electrics at the same time - we had a short somewhere and I never was able to determine where it was - so no lights or power in the barn at the mo'. Complete new circuits for the barn and the railway room to be fed by a subsidiary consumer unit within the barn (I just hope the short is not in the feed to the barn itself - dratted dormice and pine martins!). That will take more than a few days to sort out as I will need to do at least two two-way lighting circuits - not difficult, just extra cabling - plus separating out various power and other lighting circuits.

 

Then, and only then will I start baseboards. I am hoping that by the end of October that the boards will be underway.

 

I probably made mention earlier of the construction that I intend to use. Boards no wider than 900mm (including corner ones) constructed from 10mm ply. Sides will be 100mm deep as will cross-members with bolts and wing nuts to hold together. I haven't decided yet whether I shall have solid or open tops - I think it will very much depend on the amount of landscaping to be created. I see little point having a solid top only to cover it up with landscaping. An open top solves the problem of what to do if you have rivers/embankments and the like.

 

I have no set board length as I want to arrange things so the board joints do not coincide with any pointwork above. Cross-members will have lots of circular holes cut out to save weight and to allow cable runs. Small boards will also mean that Mrs Philou will be more likely to let me work indoors if the weather gets too cold (I am developing a strategy of being able to work on one board plus one either side to ensure continuity of track/scenery across the joints).

 

The layout will be aimed primarily for DCC operation and I will be providing a dedicated wifi to allow smart phones to be used in conjunction with a base station (ECoS II in my case). As only half my stock is chipped then DC will also be used - for a temporary period only (or if visitors have no DCC equipped stock).

 

Pointwork will be analogue with mimic boards at strategic locations but the point motors will need to provided with auto DPDT switches as I am going for electrofrogs (not uni- ones if I can avoid them as I consider that they look pig-ugly, YMMV of course). I can't get my head around the need to change screens to enable pointwork to be operated - I like things visual and real - not virtual. Oh, and of course big red 'do not touch' buttons so if there is a disaster in the making - power to the track can be cut off.

 

'Ey up - all that to say 'not yet'. :))

 

Cheers everyone - tomorrow is the end of the week and the weekend starts!!

 

Philip

 

Thanks, a very detailed and comprehensive explanation of "not yet", as you say!