Pendle Forest Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Somewhat miffed. Having bought DCC Ready and then finding out the decoders need to be specially formatted, I've been trying to source one. A supplier has said they can send me a Bachmann alternative but that there is a charge for the formating. I don't see why! This seems like a slightly underhand service charge. I was sold something that is DCC Ready... I.e. put a decoder in and it should work. There was no mention it was any different to any other 21pin decoder loco. Now I'm being charged for the privilege of accessing the functions because its non-standard - pay the charge or you can't have. Taken the edge off what's otherwise a brilliant model 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 minutes ago, Pendle Forest said: Somewhat miffed. Having bought DCC Ready and then finding out the decoders need to be specially formatted, I've been trying to source one. A supplier has said they can send me a Bachmann alternative but that there is a charge for the formating. I don't see why! This seems like a slightly underhand service charge. I was sold something that is DCC Ready... I.e. put a decoder in and it should work. There was no mention it was any different to any other 21pin decoder loco. Now I'm being charged for the privilege of accessing the functions because its non-standard - pay the charge or you can't have. Taken the edge off what's otherwise a brilliant model Provided you choose a decoder with enough functions then you can still access them all. However you will have to determine which functions operate what. You do not need a preprogrammed chip for basic functions but if you require more then you will need the specific chip. With new ever complex lighting functions demanded by DCC users I am afraid that there is no longer a one size fits all approach. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87027 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Afternoon all, Just a quick couple of queries for the nice folks at Cavalex and apologies if already answered further back in the thread. I’ve come to detailing my coal sector 56023 and was wondering if a set of BR arrows and Toton depot plaques should have been included with the model, or is this only the case with 56074? If so, are there any spare sets available for 074 that you could send me? (Would obviously be more than happy to pay for these if so). And finally are there any details on the loco as modelled that wouldn’t be correct if modelled with the arrows/plaques? Loco end details added and despite the locations being awkward (as per the real thing) was a doddle to fit, the rotating Screwlink drawbar was a very nice touch! Thanks in advance, Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendle Forest Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Then the product should be marked as DCC Ready (non-standard) or at least in all the literature it should be explicit that a formatted decoder is needed for full functions. I do appreciate the difficulties posed by everyone wanting everything but clarity of information is key. Had I known in advance I would have changed the options I bought. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 minutes ago, 87027 said: Afternoon all, Just a quick couple of queries for the nice folks at Cavalex and apologies if already answered further back in the thread. I’ve come to detailing my coal sector 56023 and was wondering if a set of BR arrows and Toton depot plaques should have been included with the model, or is this only the case with 56074? If so, are there any spare sets available for 074 that you could send me? (Would obviously be more than happy to pay for these if so). And finally are there any details on the loco as modelled that wouldn’t be correct if modelled with the arrows/plaques? Loco end details added and despite the locations being awkward (as per the real thing) was a doddle to fit, the rotating Screwlink drawbar was a very nice touch! Thanks in advance, Luke. Hi Luke, 023 didn't have the plaques etc in the period modelled so are not included in the pack. Send us an email at cavalexmodels@gmail.com and we will sort out a set for you from 074. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87027 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 5 minutes ago, RBE said: Hi Luke, 023 didn't have the plaques etc in the period modelled so are not included in the pack. Send us an email at cavalexmodels@gmail.com and we will sort out a set for you from 074. Afternoon mate, Many thanks will pop an email across now. Appreciate the real thing got them very late on! Would the loco need any detail tweaks to suit the time period in which the plaques were carried or should it be fine as is? Many thanks for your very quick response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 20 minutes ago, Pendle Forest said: Somewhat miffed. Having bought DCC Ready and then finding out the decoders need to be specially formatted, I've been trying to source one. A supplier has said they can send me a Bachmann alternative but that there is a charge for the formating. I don't see why! This seems like a slightly underhand service charge. I was sold something that is DCC Ready... I.e. put a decoder in and it should work. There was no mention it was any different to any other 21pin decoder loco. Now I'm being charged for the privilege of accessing the functions because its non-standard - pay the charge or you can't have. Taken the edge off what's otherwise a brilliant model 15 minutes ago, RBE said: Provided you choose a decoder with enough functions then you can still access them all. However you will have to determine which functions operate what. You do not need a preprogrammed chip for basic functions but if you require more then you will need the specific chip. With new ever complex lighting functions demanded by DCC users I am afraid that there is no longer a one size fits all approach. I tend to buy my decoders locally here in Australia then for sound decoders, buy the sounds I want - most suppliers will email the files locked to the serial numbers for ESU and Zimo decoders. For non-sound, the settings are not really copyrighted like sounds tend to be, if you purchase an ESU LokPilot, once Cavalex have sorted out their settings for that decoder, if you ask them very nicely, they might send you the settings to load into the decoder. I did exactly that with an accurascale class 92, and they were very obliging in sending me the necessary settings to work everything properly, including the servos for the pantographs. I would suggest that having the working fans on the Cavalex model would fall into a similar category in needing the extra bit of programming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendle Forest Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 I don't have a programmer I'm afraid. Hopefully the programmed decoders will become available from suppliers or direct. I do wonder whether DCC has now reached the stage of becoming a barrier rather than an advantage :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APT Fan Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Probably a daft question but would fitting the front detailing pack foul the coupling hook if also fitted? The reason for the question is the hook would be needed for occasional double heading. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted February 8 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8 2 minutes ago, APT Fan said: Probably a daft question but would fitting the front detailing pack foul the coupling hook if also fitted? The reason for the question is the hook would be needed for occasional double heading. Thanks. Fit a D-shaped wire loop.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, APT Fan said: Probably a daft question but would fitting the front detailing pack foul the coupling hook if also fitted? The reason for the question is the hook would be needed for occasional double heading. Thanks. The loco can negotiate some curves with the pipes in place. Probably not 2nd radius though. The screw link and bang grid are both removable at will so those should be ok. Just depends how much the inner pipes restrict coupler swing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APT Fan Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 5 minutes ago, Pendle Forest said: I don't have a programmer I'm afraid. Hopefully the programmed decoders will become available from suppliers or direct. I do wonder whether DCC has now reached the stage of becoming a barrier rather than an advantage :( Surely you can change the CV values from your controller and would have used that to change loco addresses? Once you have the list of values, its reasonably straight forward. The last time I did was for a Dapol O gauge 121 and they included the settings in the manual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRUNFOS Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 16 minutes ago, Pendle Forest said: I don't have a programmer I'm afraid. Hopefully the programmed decoders will become available from suppliers or direct. I do wonder whether DCC has now reached the stage of becoming a barrier rather than an advantage :( Have you tried Trains4U? They supplied a chip in mine that is setup for all lights and functions. They might be available separately. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight-Freight Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 45 minutes ago, Pendle Forest said: Somewhat miffed. Having bought DCC Ready and then finding out the decoders need to be specially formatted, I've been trying to source one. A supplier has said they can send me a Bachmann alternative but that there is a charge for the formating. I don't see why! This seems like a slightly underhand service charge. I was sold something that is DCC Ready... I.e. put a decoder in and it should work. There was no mention it was any different to any other 21pin decoder loco. Now I'm being charged for the privilege of accessing the functions because its non-standard - pay the charge or you can't have. Taken the edge off what's otherwise a brilliant model This is what I was questioning a little earlier in the thread. I have a Hattons decoder taken from my factory fitted dcc fitted class 66 which I believe is 6 function. I only have working headlight and marker lights which is presumably 3 functions so if there's a way to assign the remaining 3 to tail lights and fan that would be ideal but I'm unsure if/how to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 5 minutes ago, Midnight-Freight said: This is what I was questioning a little earlier in the thread. I have a Hattons decoder taken from my factory fitted dcc fitted class 66 which I believe is 6 function. I only have working headlight and marker lights which is presumably 3 functions so if there's a way to assign the remaining 3 to tail lights and fan that would be ideal but I'm unsure if/how to do this. You should be able to access the functions on any DCC decoder, however the Hattons 66 decoder is set up for that particular loco so why would it work correctly with the 56? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted February 8 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8 the question is why you would put a very much budget decoder in a very much high end loco is also appropriate? 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APT Fan Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Midnight-Freight said: This is what I was questioning a little earlier in the thread. I have a Hattons decoder taken from my factory fitted dcc fitted class 66 which I believe is 6 function. I only have working headlight and marker lights which is presumably 3 functions so if there's a way to assign the remaining 3 to tail lights and fan that would be ideal but I'm unsure if/how to do this. I think you'll need 10 outputs. Originally I thought it was 8 but forgot about the fans (2off). So the outputs would be 1 x Tail lights, 1 X Front lights, 1 X Head Light, 1 Cab Light - for each end. So that's 8 + 2 = 10. I'm assuming all lights are independent given the switching options. I.e. Not on the same White / Yellow circuits. Edited February 8 by APT Fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted February 8 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8 29 minutes ago, Midnight-Freight said: This is what I was questioning a little earlier in the thread. I have a Hattons decoder taken from my factory fitted dcc fitted class 66 which I believe is 6 function. I only have working headlight and marker lights which is presumably 3 functions so if there's a way to assign the remaining 3 to tail lights and fan that would be ideal but I'm unsure if/how to do this. IIRC, the Hattons decoder for the 66 is 6x full power output. i.e. if the loco requires logic level outputs for AUX3/AUX 4 (and above), then the Hattons decoder will not operate them. It will control F0f/F0r/AUX1 and AUX2 - what turns on will depend upon what is connected to those outputs within the loco. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 40 minutes ago, Pendle Forest said: I don't have a programmer I'm afraid. Hopefully the programmed decoders will become available from suppliers or direct. I do wonder whether DCC has now reached the stage of becoming a barrier rather than an advantage :( JMRI is free to use if your system has a USB/serial interface. All you will you will need is a computer & lead. Most people will already have these. It makes very light work of programming. As for it becoming a barrier, nothing has changed. It has always required decoders & control system. If you don't want extra features like switchable lighting, or working fans, then leave them off & ignore them. That will have removed your 'barriers' but you will still have great slow speed control & the ability to control multiple trains on the same line. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold zr2498 Posted February 8 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8 (edited) 45 minutes ago, APT Fan said: I think you'll need 10 outputs. Originally I thought it was 8 but forgot about the fans (2off). So the outputs would be 1 x Tail lights, 1 X Front lights, 1 X Head Light, 1 Cab Light - for each end. So that's 8 + 2 = 10. I'm assuming all lights are independent given the switching options. I.e. Not on the same White / Yellow circuits. Post deleted Edited February 8 by zr2498 Wrong info - post deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight-Freight Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 32 minutes ago, RBE said: You should be able to access the functions on any DCC decoder, however the Hattons 66 decoder is set up for that particular loco so why would it work correctly with the 56? I don't know, hence my question whether it could be used for the 6 functions it supports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erixtar1992 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 5 hours ago, E100 said: Worked perfectly. Thanks so much. Awesome mate! Nice one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erixtar1992 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 6 minutes ago, zr2498 said: I'm no expert on DCC (non-sound) decoders as I usually fit sound. Sticking with ESU this might be an appropriate non-sound decoder? Lots of function capability. What might be helpful from Cavalex is the recommended DCC decoder for non-sound. What would have been included for a DCC fitted model (non sound). And perhaps a list of CV settings if any would need changing from the ESU factory set up. Just an idea. No!!! A FX is a Function ONLY decoder! It has no motor control! they are used for dummy locos/coaches ect. :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight-Freight Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 40 minutes ago, APT Fan said: I think you'll need 10 outputs. Originally I thought it was 8 but forgot about the fans (2off). So the outputs would be 1 x Tail lights, 1 X Front lights, 1 X Head Light, 1 Cab Light - for each end. So that's 8 + 2 = 10. I'm assuming all lights are independent given the switching options. I.e. Not on the same White / Yellow circuits. Yeh that makes sense. I ignored cab lights as not bothered about those and only allowed 1 for fans. I'd hoped it was just a case of playing with cv's to assign the correct functions to the appropriate feature but I'm not too clued up on all this so I guess it's not that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold zr2498 Posted February 8 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8 12 minutes ago, Erixtar1992 said: No!!! A FX is a Function ONLY decoder! It has no motor control! they are used for dummy locos/coaches ect. :-) Thanks. I will delete my post in case of trouble / confusion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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