Windows 11. Anyone going to install it? Plus discussion and observations, experience etc.

[whart57]

3 hours ago, Izzy said:

 

And I'm afraid that while it may seem simple to you that's just all gobbledygook to me. Way above my pay grade and what my old brain can cope with sadly. I'd love to be able to deal with it but digging around in Windows device manager and registry is pushing it for me.

 

 

Before I say any more can I stress that the rule of "your model railway - your rules" applies even more strongly when it comes to personal computing choices, so while I may come across as a Linux evangelist at times, I'm not, everyone else's choice is theirs to make. Except Bill Gates when he keeps coming round asking for more money.

 

That said, if you can emerge from Windows Device Manager and the Registry with sanity still intact, then 95% of what you need for Linux is there, and the other 5% you probably don't need. You seem to have fixed things but if you get into a similar bind again maybe try a thread on Wheeltappers on getting started with Linux. Or if you have an old PC try an install of something like Lubuntu or Linux-Lite as an experiment.

[Izzy]

4 hours ago, whart57 said:

 

Before I say any more can I stress that the rule of "your model railway - your rules" applies even more strongly when it comes to personal computing choices, so while I may come across as a Linux evangelist at times, I'm not, everyone else's choice is theirs to make. Except Bill Gates when he keeps coming round asking for more money.

 

That said, if you can emerge from Windows Device Manager and the Registry with sanity still intact, then 95% of what you need for Linux is there, and the other 5% you probably don't need. You seem to have fixed things but if you get into a similar bind again maybe try a thread on Wheeltappers on getting started with Linux. Or if you have an old PC try an install of something like Lubuntu or Linux-Lite as an experiment.

 

Thanks. I tried using Linux a couple of years back now on a little 11" laptop that I was having trouble with running W10. I was okay just using it as it came with what apps etc were included, but I struggled as soon as I wanted to try and install anything else such as JMRI. I just couldn't get 'there' if you know what I mean and eventually I decided that it was just a step too far and I returned to Windows which I can - mostly! - cope with and sort out on a basic level.

 

Bob

[melmerby]

6 hours ago, whart57 said:

Except Bill Gates when he keeps coming round asking for more money.

Being Pedantic, Gatesy doesn't work at MS and hasn't for many a year.🙂

 

6 hours ago, whart57 said:

if you can emerge from Windows Device Manager and the Registry

What on earth are you doing in the registry?😄

[Hroth]

I wouldn't encourage people to use any Linux like operating system.  I don't want to end up as everlasting tech support for them!  However, given the number of Raspberry Pi computers that are knocking about, there must be a fairly substantial Linux aware subculture.

 

 

[RFS]

7 hours ago, whart57 said:

Except Bill Gates when he keeps coming round asking for more money.

 

When was that? I'm running 3 Windows 11 PCs on W7 full retail licences purchased in 2009, and I suspect they'll last me out too!

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

given the number of Raspberry Pi computers that are knocking about, there must be a fairly substantial Linux aware subculture.

IMHO Raspian is one of the more user friendly versions of Linux.

If you want it for running JMRI, there is a custom version with JMRI included.

[melmerby]

My Win 11 computer has not updated from the original 21H2 variant.

I've read a few posts about it and it says to download KB5026372, which will update it to 22H2.

I have downloaded it (X64 version) and tried to install it.

I get a message "This update is not applicable to your computer"

 

 

So far I've had all the security updates but no feature update.

Any suggestions?

 

[RFS]

KB5026372 is a cumulative update to 22H2 so it would seem it's not valid for your system that's on 21H2. 

 

Have you tried going here and using the download assistant to update your system to 22H2?

 

EDIT: see also here for more information on how to update to 22H2.

Edited October 29, 2023 by RFS

[Chris Turnbull]

As Robert says, you must instal the 22H2 update before you can install any cumulative updates to it.  I installed it on my PC on 28th October 2022 and have had no problems either with the original installation or any cumulative updates.  I also installed it on my wife's laptop and have had no problems with that either.  I understand that update 23H2 will be along soon.

 

Chris Turnbull

[Reorte]

Got a new laptop with Windows 11 on it a few weeks ago. Not keen at all so far, although I can kick it in to something vaguely resembling usable (Open Shell would go on anyway, plus one or two others to sort out the borked right click menu and some of the taskbar limitations). Can't update it though, every time it tries installing an update file explorer gets broken.

[melmerby]

13 hours ago, RFS said:

KB5026372 is a cumulative update to 22H2 so it would seem it's not valid for your system that's on 21H2. 

 

Have you tried going here and using the download assistant to update your system to 22H2?

 

EDIT: see also here for more information on how to update to 22H2.

Some wrong information on the net then as a couple of sites said to update 21H2 to 22H2 use that update!

 

For some reason the PC hasn't picked up the update to 22H2 although it's set to do all the downloads. I always do the options as well.

[phil-b259]

On 25/01/2023 at 13:55, melmerby said:

Like today when several MS services went down after a software update. Don't know whether cloud sevices were affected.

 

You could easily find your stuff lost in the ether.

Like that bunch of cowboys that lost all that RMWeb data that was supposed to have been backed up.

Given the way ‘One Drive’ is embraced by business (it’s used extensively by Network Rail amongst others) calling it a service run by ‘Cowboys’ is wide off the mark.
 

Also for business, particularly with the rise of working at home, keeping the actual data in a secure online place with uses only allowed access after a secure log on procedure has been completed rather than have it stored on individual uses devices is actually safer as it cannot be ‘lost’ if the device gets stolen / corrupted - plus it’s easier to keep track of / regulate who has access to said files.

 

More generally it’s also part of the wider move in the software world to the subscription model rather than a one off purchase which started with the gaming sector as a way of combating piracy but has now spread across software providers more generally.

 

Agreed that as with all ‘online’ data there is a risk of it being compromised by hacking or lost due to hardware failures but given the potential cost and reputations impacts on a business like Microsoft you can be sure that every effort will be made to minimise any dangers.

[Reorte]

32 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

More generally it’s also part of the wider move in the software world to the subscription model rather than a one off purchase which started with the gaming sector as a way of combating piracy but has now spread across software providers more generally.

Which isn't a model that I'm keen on at all, to put it mildly. It has its place (possibly rather more so in the business world than the personal one) but it's pretty poor that there's such a shift in that direction.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

Given the way ‘One Drive’ is embraced by business (it’s used extensively by Network Rail amongst others) calling it a service run by ‘Cowboys’ is wide off the mark.

I never said One Drive was run by cowboys.

 

I did say the RMWeb provider was a bunch of cowboys, having lost all that data. IMHO Warners should've got compensation for that mess up.

I also said that I didn't know whether cloud services were affected by the MS outage.

 

It's obvious I was saying I didn't trust third parties with my data. If it's going to be lost, let me do it!😄

[Reorte]

55 minutes ago, melmerby said:

It's obvious I was saying I didn't trust third parties with my data. If it's going to be lost, let me do it!😄

A remote backup like that sounds good, that being all you've got does not.

[phil-b259]

2 hours ago, Reorte said:

Which isn't a model that I'm keen on at all, to put it mildly. It has its place (possibly rather more so in the business world than the personal one) but it's pretty poor that there's such a shift in that direction.

 

I think it very much depend on the context.

 

If you have a need to share documents with colleagues / friends or restrict access to who can see them then using cloud based storage / programs is a very effective way of doing that - particularity with established providers like Microsoft who could be considered to have both robust hardware and security in place to protect that content.

 

However if its something which only you yourself need to access / use then having the files / program stored / run locally would be preferred, particularly as quality cloud services can be fairly pricey on an individual basis.

[woodenhead]

Cloud storage is very secure and very protected be it Google, Amazon or Microsoft - their whole investment in technology is dependent on it.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/how-onedrive-safeguards-your-data-in-the-cloud-23c6ea94-3608-48d7-8bf0-80e142edd1e1

 

As a means of backing up your own data it surely offers something over and above local storage and back up, backing up your computer to a hard drive is great, but what if your house is destroyed with the back up hard drive within it?

 

Microsoft store everything more than once and seperated by large distances to ensure that only a global disaster scenario is likely to cause it's loss - that is a big step up from relying on local hard drives sepeated by a room in a home. 

 

What I am saying is that if your data is that important, then if you don't use cloud you are going to need to store a hard drive back up away from the computer in a completely different physical location and likely locked in a safe to enable recovery if the primary source of the data is lost.  With cloud all that means is plugging in a new PC, logging on to Microsoft (or your preferred cloud partner) and accessing your data again.

[melmerby]

On 29/10/2023 at 20:21, RFS said:

KB5026372 is a cumulative update to 22H2 so it would seem it's not valid for your system that's on 21H2. 

 

Have you tried going here and using the download assistant to update your system to 22H2?

 

EDIT: see also here for more information on how to update to 22H2.

Hi Robert

I've tried using the media creation tool, which I've used in the past without a problem

First attempt. (lunchtime) I got a MS popup part way through, telling me to logon to my MS account to continue. At this point the media creation was only partly done

When I eventually got rid of the popup the media had been corrupted.

 

Second attempt. (this evening) It all went as it normally does until it tried to install Windows and I got a message that the PC didn't meet the requirements for Win 11 as it didn't have TPM 2.0.

I ran the performance checker and got the same result. It's odd because it does have TPM2.0 as I upgraded the processor (where it is) to get it (AMD fTPM) and having enabled it, originally installed Win 11 without a problem.

 

Puzzling, maybe that's why it has never done a feature update?

Edited October 30, 2023 by melmerby

[phil-b259]

9 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Hi Robert

I've tried using the media creation tool, which I've used in the past without a problem

First attempt. (lunchtime) I got a MS popup telling me to logon to my MS account to continue. At this point the media creation was only partly done

When I eventually got rid of the popup the media had been corrupted.

 

 

Second attempt. (this evening) It all went as it normally does until it tries to install Windows and I got a message that the PC didn't meet the requirements for Win 11 as it didn't have TPM 2.0.

I ran the performance checker and got the same result. It's odd because it does have TPM2.0 as I upgraded the processor (where it is) to get it (AMD fTPM) and having enabled it, originally installed Win 11 without a problem.

 

Puzzling, maybe that's why it has never done a feature update?

 

Has the BIOS been set correctly? Remember that the whole point of TMP is security and with computers the first line of defence is the BIOS because if that gets corrupted then you can do all sorts of things like boot from potentially malicious external drives etc.

 

Usually simply having a fTPM processor alone is not enough - unless the BIOS is set up to 'activate' it for want of a better word then Windows won't see it.

 

Its not always straightforward to find out what you have to do - when I bought my motherboard it had TPM but that was disabled by default (which wasn't an issue at the time as I was running windows 10. When I went to upgrade to windows 11 I had to do a fair bit of research to find out exactly what I needed to do in the BIOS to activate the TMP.

Edited October 30, 2023 by phil-b259

[RFS]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Second attempt. (this evening) It all went as it normally does until it tried to install Windows and I got a message that the PC didn't meet the requirements for Win 11 as it didn't have TPM 2.0.

I ran the performance checker and got the same result. It's odd because it does have TPM2.0 as I upgraded the processor (where it is) to get it (AMD fTPM) and having enabled it, originally installed Win 11 without a problem.

 

Puzzling, maybe that's why it has never done a feature update?

 

Go into Device Manager and select "security devices". It will tell you there whether TPM is enabled or not, eg

 

 

A while ago when I updated the BIOS on my system, it reverted to the default of TPM not being enabled. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by RFS

[RFS]

Alternatively go to settungs and check Windows Security, eg

 

 

 

[melmerby]

11 hours ago, RFS said:

 

Go into Device Manager and select "security devices". It will tell you there whether TPM is enabled or not, eg

 

 

A while ago when I updated the BIOS on my system, it reverted to the default of TPM not being enabled. 

It was showing as nothing available.

So I went into BIOS and found that TPM was disabled! I Enabled it and the update is now ongoing (very slowly)

I hadn't updated the BIOS so I don't know how it went from enabled to disabled, in fact I haven't been in the BIOS for a very long time.

[melmerby]

Something not right, been sitting on "please wait" for 30mins with no sign of any activity on Task Manager, so I have stopped it, it seems to have got stuck as it won't shut down the install!

[melmerby]

Tried again

Everything went through as it should, now on 22H2.

It's also found some more updates!

 

Now all Finished

Version 22H2 (22621,2506)

[RFS]

11 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Tried again

Everything went through as it should, now on 22H2.

It's also found some more updates!

 

Now all Finished

Version 22H2 (22621,2506)

 

Great! Just in time for 23H2 which is due in the next few weeks.