Windows 11. Anyone going to install it? Plus discussion and observations, experience etc.

[melmerby]

59 minutes ago, rab said:

I was going to check my PC for compatibility, but apparently the checker has been taken down; it was giving too many false results.

 

I had downloaded the first and second issues before it was taken down.

The first didn't elaborate on non compliance, the second issue did.

[RFS]

W11 has reached the point where Microsoft have made it available to Insiders. There are now two streams (both identical at the moment) - "beta" (which will become the official version this autumn) and "dev" (which will contain new stuff and which may not be stable). MS are now saying the "beta" version is stable and will only receive bug fixes till release. 

 

I have had a test machine running the "dev" version for a month now - it's an old machine that will never be capable of running W11 but MS have relaxed the rules on these test versions for insiders. I've found it really rather good, and now have the "beta" version on my railway room PC for Traincontroller, and also now on my main PC. Both of these PCs meet the requirements for W11. 

 

Edition          Windows 11 Home
Version         21H2
OS build        22000.120
Experience    Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.22000.120.0
 

Edited August 6, 2021 by RFS

[brianusa]

In simple terms, is it a good idea for simple folk like me?  I have no idea of what's inside my computer as someone more knowledgeable than I has always kept it current.  So is the change from W10 to W11 worth it?

     Brian.

[Butler Henderson]

Have  a read of Windows 11 FAQ: Here's everything you need to know | ZDNet.

 

One seemingly odd thing at first glance is the ability to have the start logo not bottom left but then it would help working at home where the laptop obstructs the bottom left of the big screen

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Butler Henderson

[melmerby]

50 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

Have  a read of Windows 11 FAQ: Here's everything you need to know | ZDNet.

 

One seemingly odd thing at first glance is the ability to have the start logo not bottom left but then it would help working at home where the laptop obstructs the bottom left of the big screen

 

What is the problem? I can't visualise what you mean.

AFAIK My laptop produces an identical view on both it's own & an external screen, even with different resolutions. (720p & 1080p)

 

You can already move the taskbar, Including start button, in Windows 10 and can be different on each screen.

 

Hover mouse over a blank portion of taskbar, left click mouse and drag taskbar to left, right, top or bottom.

Edited August 6, 2021 by melmerby

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, brianusa said:

In simple terms, is it a good idea for simple folk like me?  I have no idea of what's inside my computer as someone more knowledgeable than I has always kept it current.  So is the change from W10 to W11 worth it?

     Brian.

 

Not straight away - let the early adopters have their fill when Windows 11 does get released as its a certainty that however much pre-release testing goes on there will be bugs and issues needing resolving via updates.

 

However 6 - 12 months after release then the software should have largely got over that initial troublesome phase.

 

As to whether its 'worth it' - the state of computing technology is such that the massive jumps between software we saw in the 1990s doesn't happen - its more of a case of smaller changes between releases but those releases happening more frequently. As such it is quite easy to suffer from 'boiling frog' syndrome - the changes are not so signifficant that you notice the need to take action but leave it too long and you suddenly find things are no longer supported - which leaves you very exposed to all sorts of internet nasties (malware, personal details hacked, ransomware) etc

 

The key thing is to pay attention to the offers - if Microsoft offer a 'free upgrade*' from Windows 10 to 11 its worth getting it as it saves you the cost of buying Windows 11 outright in later years.

 

The Windows 7 to Windows 10 offer ran for about 12 months and I imagine a Windows 10 to Windows 11 upgrade will be similar so no need to rush (but at the same time don't miss out).

 

*(Even though my Windows 10 is a 'free upgrade from Windows 7 there is nothing to stop me creating a Windows 10 setup USB stick and installing it on a freshly formatted hard drive with no need to pre-load Windows 7 first.)

[Butler Henderson]

The laptop screen overlaps the bottom left of the main screen - the W11 functionality allows for the start button to be moved not the whole taskbar as I understand it . Not sure if the taskbar can be moved on the work laptop given how much is locked by IT and doing so could might cause problems with the Unix based program that has not really progressed since the mid 1990s.

[APOLLO]

 

Brit15

[melmerby]

18 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

The laptop screen overlaps the bottom left of the main screen - the W11 functionality allows for the start button to be moved not the whole taskbar as I understand it . Not sure if the taskbar can be moved on the work laptop given how much is locked by IT and doing so could might cause problems with the Unix based program that has not really progressed since the mid 1990s.

 

If the laptop normally physically obstructs the bottom left of the main screen and the main screen is just connected to the VGA/HDMI/whatever socket on the laptop you could try moving the taskbar on the external screen, without affecting the laptop's taskbar position.

 

I tried my railway room PC which has 4 screens and I was able to have the taskbar in a different position on each.

 

[RFS]

35 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

The key thing is to pay attention to the offers - if Microsoft offer a 'free upgrade*' from Windows 10 to 11 its worth getting it as it saves you the cost of buying Windows 11 outright in later years.

 

The Windows 7 to Windows 10 offer ran for about 12 months and I imagine a Windows 10 to Windows 11 upgrade will be similar so no need to rush (but at the same time don't miss out).

 

MS never withdrew the free W10 upgrade offer - they just stopped promoting it. You can still upgrade to W10 today for free provided your PC has a licence for W7 or W8.1 and is capable of running it since W10 is over 5 years old now.  The W10 to W11 upgrade is also free (assuming your PC meets the hardware requirements) and I assume will not be time-limited either. 

[RFS]

40 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

The laptop screen overlaps the bottom left of the main screen - the W11 functionality allows for the start button to be moved not the whole taskbar as I understand it . Not sure if the taskbar can be moved on the work laptop given how much is locked by IT and doing so could might cause problems with the Unix based program that has not really progressed since the mid 1990s.

 

By default the taskbar and start button are centred in W11, but you have the option of moving them to the left which is what I have done. However you can no longer have the taskbar on the top or sides of the screen - the bottom is the only place. 

[Pete the Elaner]

I looked at a youtube video criticising this.

The poster's PC failed for several reasons, one at a time. I cannot remember exactly what, but it made me realise that my 5+ year old PC will be laughed at (which with 32GB RAM, an SSD & I can't remember what processor) comfortably copes with everything I can throw at it without coming close to maxing out any resources.

 

A weekend with a friend who provides public it support & never stops complaining about Windows 10 reminded me of something:

Most Windows problems are now caused by Microsoft making it too flexible. It will install on hardware which is badly inadequate & it is compatible with a massive range of hardware, some of which has buggy drivers.

Although it can "be made to run" on macines such as this, it runs poorly & gives the user a bad experience. The most common alternative is to buy a Mac. They don't suffer these issues because the OS is much fussier about what it will run on & the Hardware Compatibility List is much more limited.

When I worked in IT support, my colleague looked at how much the company paid for each Mac & spec'd a PC for the same cost. What he costed was a PC was a very long way ahead of the standard machine the company was buying & on paper, it would have comfortably out-performed any of the Macs at the same price point.

 

So it seems that by making Windows 11 fussy about the hardware on which it installs, Microsoft are trying to shake off the whole idea that "Windows is poor because it runs slowly...because it is installed on rubbish hardware", because now it won't actually install on poorly specified hardware.

 

[kevinlms]

9 hours ago, brianusa said:

In simple terms, is it a good idea for simple folk like me?  I have no idea of what's inside my computer as someone more knowledgeable than I has always kept it current.  So is the change from W10 to W11 worth it?

     Brian.

I don't believe Win 11 is going to be 'superior' as an operating system.

The way I see it, it is merely advance notice that you MAY need to upgrade your PC. Having given 4 years notice of the end of Windows 10, gives everyone whose computer doesn't meet the latest specs, plenty of time to do something about it.

 

FWIW, my PC fails and in 2025, my computer will be 10 years old, so I think it will be life expired any way.

[melmerby]

10 hours ago, RFS said:

 

MS never withdrew the free W10 upgrade offer - they just stopped promoting it. You can still upgrade to W10 today for free provided your PC has a licence for W7 or W8.1 and is capable of running it since W10 is over 5 years old now.  The W10 to W11 upgrade is also free (assuming your PC meets the hardware requirements) and I assume will not be time-limited either. 

 

These days it seems MS want to tempt you to stay with Windows and then maybe you will subscribe to their other offerings, which depend on Windows.

If they charge, as they used to do, you may go elsewhere for an OS and they lose the other business.

They've obviously weighed up the pros and cons.

 

Remember when we had to pay for a browser?

Back in the days of Windows 3, nearly everything was paid for on top of the OS, nothing like the classy free stuff available today.

[Metr0Land]

13 hours ago, RFS said:

 

MS never withdrew the free W10 upgrade offer - they just stopped promoting it

 

Indeed I upgraded from W7 to W10 about 4 months ago when I realised this was the case. (PC is 9 years old)

[RFS]

Windows 11 will become generally available on Ocober 5th - see Microsoft announcement.

 

I've been running the beta version on this PC and the railway room PC for a few weeks now, and it's very stable.

[melmerby]

I notice that they haven't relaxed the processor requirements (yet?) so will eliminate many older devices, which in the past would have still been updateable to a later OS

Edited August 31, 2021 by melmerby

[Tim Dubya]

In short, nope but will have to eventually I guess

 

I have a firmware TMP2 (regardless of firmware or hardware the requirement is for a TPM2 not just a TMP).

If your mobo doesn't have a firmware TPM2, but does have a header for one, then you can plug one in.  These were a couple of quid a while back but prices are going up.

 

You must also have an MS account for Windows 11, no way around that (yet).

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Tim Dubya
Shaking Stevens

[Ian J.]

10 minutes ago, Tim Dubya said:

You must also have an MS account for Windows 11, no way around that (yet).

 

 

This greatly worries me. With no choice but for Windows users who have to upgrade due to their software needs, they'll basically be forced to, in essence, tell Microsoft exactly when they log in and log out of their personal private computer.

 

I'm glad I'm on Linux Mint, but when they released Windows 10, I had always hoped that Microsoft would see the error of their ways and create a private version of Windows that didn't in any way require any internet connection or phone home with all sorts of user data. It looks instead, with Windows 11, they're going both feet into the 'you'll do things our way, and like it, or f**k off.'

[melmerby]

33 minutes ago, Ian J. said:

 

This greatly worries me. With no choice but for Windows users who have to upgrade due to their software needs, they'll basically be forced to, in essence, tell Microsoft exactly when they log in and log out of their personal private computer.

 

I'm glad I'm on Linux Mint, but when they released Windows 10, I had always hoped that Microsoft would see the error of their ways and create a private version of Windows that didn't in any way require any internet connection or phone home with all sorts of user data. It looks instead, with Windows 11, they're going both feet into the 'you'll do things our way, and like it, or f**k off.'

There are ways of stopping that in Win 10

MS don't get any of my data when I'm using it because it's blocked by SpyBot Anti-Beacon.

I do have an MS account but don't use it for logging on etc.

It is useful for dealing with problems along the way, such as transferring the digital license when you do a system update.

I have also used it for support.

[Tim Dubya]

10 minutes ago, melmerby said:

There are ways of stopping that in Win 10

MS don't get any of my data when I'm using it because it's blocked by SpyBot Anti-Beacon.

I do have an MS account but don't use it for logging on etc.

It is useful for dealing with problems along the way, such as transferring the digital license when you do a system update.

I have also used it for support.

 

As far as I know you must have an MS account to use 11, no way around that (but we're working on it ).

[Reorte]

So far all Windows 11 users will be testers, releasing it in this way before its full release it's entirely reasonable to expect a bit of monitoring what it's doing (the entire point of the testing phase) so requiring an account in the current version of it make ssense. I'd be very unhappy indeed if this carries on to the full general public release; I'm not interested at all in it right now but I'll wind up using it at some point; non-Windows isn't all that viable for gaming.

[Ian J.]

14 minutes ago, Reorte said:

So far all Windows 11 users will be testers, releasing it in this way before its full release it's entirely reasonable to expect a bit of monitoring what it's doing (the entire point of the testing phase) so requiring an account in the current version of it make ssense. I'd be very unhappy indeed if this carries on to the full general public release; I'm not interested at all in it right now but I'll wind up using it at some point; non-Windows isn't all that viable for gaming.

 

That's what they* said about Windows 10's key logging and telemetry gathering - 'it's just for the beta and it won't be in the release version'...

 

* - 'they' being everyone who was testing the beta and commenting about it - I don't think Microsoft said anything either way, but look what happened - it's all still in Windows 10 even now.

[RFS]

1 hour ago, Tim Dubya said:

 

As far as I know you must have an MS account to use 11, no way around that (but we're working on it ).

 

As I understand it, you need an MS account to install it, but from then on you can use a local account without being signed into MS.  That's the way I'm running W11 now as I type this ....

[RFS]

36 minutes ago, Reorte said:

So far all Windows 11 users will be testers, releasing it in this way before its full release it's entirely reasonable to expect a bit of monitoring what it's doing (the entire point of the testing phase) so requiring an account in the current version of it make ssense. I'd be very unhappy indeed if this carries on to the full general public release; I'm not interested at all in it right now but I'll wind up using it at some point; non-Windows isn't all that viable for gaming.

 

There's basic and optional telemetry data. You can't turn off the basic (it's described as "a limited set of data that is necessary to keep your device and operating system secure, up-to-date and working as expected") but you can disable the optional data. Being an Insider, I have to have an MS account and send full telemetry data, but as none if it is personally identifiable I'm OK with that. If I wasn't, I wouldn't be an insider.