Oldest piece of OHL in UK

[dave75]

40 years since Woodheads last service train this month. Looking at Ken Oldhams book Wartime Woodhead, the OHL gantry on the viaduct at the west end of Dinting Station appeared in 1941, making it 80 years old. 

 

Is it still there? lve not been that way in a few years and noticed some 25kv AC masts in the station area. 

[Johann Marsbar]

Are there any of the old LBSC overhead structures still remaining?  Some of those were re-used for signalling purposes after the wires came down and certainly some survived into recent years.

 

[97406]

I think some of the gantries on the former Manchester South Junction and Altrincham Railway are of 1931 vintage and are still in use, albeit having been re-energised twice. To 25kV then 750V DC.

[DY444]

2 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

Are there any of the old LBSC overhead structures still remaining?  Some of those were re-used for signalling purposes after the wires came down and certainly some survived into recent years.

 

 

Assuming it hasn't been removed in the last year or so (not been up there for a year due to you know what and there is ongoing resignalling work in hand between Victoria and Balham which might see its demise), then there is one between Pouparts Jn and Clapham Jn which has been used as a signal gantry since semaphore days.  The SR retained it through both the 1950s and 1984s resignalling schemes.   

Edited July 5, 2021 by DY444

[cheesysmith]

If you mean the actual contact wire, if there is any of the original compound wire left from either the woodhead or GE DC days, that would be the oldest over head line Vs structure (with the GE finished before the woodhead). The only bit of wire that would be older is if any of the MASJR wire is still there between pic and Oxford rd.

[Michael Edge]

Most of the remaining MSW is the original compound catenary, just the insulators changed.

[Clive Mortimore]

The oldest and least unaltered is the Clacton Branch. Only the compound spans have been replaced with simple otherwise the structures and voltage are as built.

[Titan]

11 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

The oldest and least unaltered is the Clacton Branch. Only the compound spans have been replaced with simple otherwise the structures and voltage are as built.

 

It is the oldest that was originally 25kV,  but the oldest OLE structures still in use as OLE structures as mentioned are the old MASJ.  Not only are some still in use between Man. Pic and Oxford road, they also had to be recently altered as part of the Liverpool - Manchester electrification.  Finding brackets to adapt modern metric Series 2 equipment to something that not only was made from weird imperial sized channel that was probably obsolete before the 1500V DC GE was even thought of let alone 25kV,  but was also put together in a non-standard way, needed a bit of lateral thinking if a bespoke bracket design was to be avoided!

[russ p]

No complete structures but there is the odd bracket here and there from the Newport- Shildon scheme 

[Nearholmer]

Structure-wise, somewhere on Blackpool Tramways, I should think, given how early that was OHWE. It had a brief conduit period right at the beginning, I think. I rather doubt there is any original wire left, but who knows?

 

The IoM isn’t in the U.K. is it? If it was, that would be a contender, but Blackpool came before.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Enterprisingwestern]

9 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

The IoM isn’t in the U.K. is it?

 

Self governing Crown dependency I believe.

 

Mike.

[montyburns56]

On 05/07/2021 at 09:35, Clive Mortimore said:

The oldest and least unaltered is the Clacton Branch. Only the compound spans have been replaced with simple otherwise the structures and voltage are as built.

 

I always thought that the Styal LIne in Manchester was the first to be electrified at 25KV AC? Both the Clacton line and the Styal line were electrified in 1959 and Wikipedia says that the Clacton line was done in March 1959 so was Clacton definitely the first one completed does anyone know?

[stewartingram]

21 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Structure-wise, somewhere on Blackpool Tramways, I should think, given how early that was OHWE. It had a brief conduit period right at the beginning, I think. I rather doubt there is any original wire left, but who knows?

 

The IoM isn’t in the U.K. is it? If it was, that would be a contender, but Blackpool came before.

 

 

Don't forget Blackpool has morphed into the modern era recently. Before that, they went through a phased renewal of the OHL structures, started in the south I believe, and ending at 'the north end of the Borough', so the Fleetwood end (from Cleveleys area?) remained with the old structures. However, when the tramway closed for renewal on 6/11/2011, that was it - the infrastructure on to Fleetwood was renewed as well. However, some of the poles etc close to Rigby Road depot may still remain. All of the wire has of course been renewed over the years.

 

Stewart

[Nearholmer]

It’s a few years since I’ve been there actually. I’m not at all sure I could take the shock of the new, having been so hugely impressed by the late-30s vibe that existed before.

 

There must be the odd structure left, as you say, surely.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Clive Mortimore]

4 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

 

I always thought that the Styal LIne in Manchester was the first to be electrified at 25KV AC? Both the Clacton line and the Styal line were electrified in 1959 and Wikipedia says that the Clacton line was done in March 1959 so was Clacton definitely the first one completed does anyone know?

Has the Styal line be upgraded to UK1 standards like most of the older parts of the WCML?  I am not sure but assumed it had. Please tell me if I am wrong.

[montyburns56]

18 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Has the Styal line be upgraded to UK1 standards like most of the older parts of the WCML?  I am not sure but assumed it had. Please tell me if I am wrong.

 

I've no idea.

[melmerby]

On 06/07/2021 at 19:09, stewartingram said:

Don't forget Blackpool has morphed into the modern era recently. Before that, they went through a phased renewal of the OHL structures, started in the south I believe, and ending at 'the north end of the Borough', so the Fleetwood end (from Cleveleys area?) remained with the old structures. However, when the tramway closed for renewal on 6/11/2011, that was it - the infrastructure on to Fleetwood was renewed as well. However, some of the poles etc close to Rigby Road depot may still remain. All of the wire has of course been renewed over the years.

 

Stewart

The Northern Blundell Street access to the depot has gone and the OHE removed but the Southern part of Blundell Street still has some old equipment, but how old?

 

Jan 2021 Streetview:

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by melmerby

[Jim76]

I recall reading somewhere but can't recall where but weren't elements of the 'Bed-Pan' electrification re-used from somewhere else? I'm thinking possibly the Woodhead route. 

[Pandora]

I read that  electrification of the Woodhead line commenced in the 1930s, and the portals were used as sighting aids by enemy bombers.

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Pandora

[DY444]

4 hours ago, Jim76 said:

I recall reading somewhere but can't recall where but weren't elements of the 'Bed-Pan' electrification re-used from somewhere else? I'm thinking possibly the Woodhead route. 

 

I was a regular traveller on the MML in 1980-82 and my recollection is that everything being installed looked brand new. 

 

Woodhead was still open when they started BedPan and in any event what from Woodhead could actually be re-used?  You wouldn't dismantle and re-use the structures and anyway we know most of the Woodhead ones were intact at closure and beyond plus BedPan was largely head spans.  The insulators are no good for AC, the substation equipment was both obsolete and of no use for AC and DC contact wire is too heavy for AC structures in general and head spans in particular.  I can't think of any other line from which a sizeable volume of usable AC equipment could have been been recovered at the time and re-used so the balance of probability says the answer is no.     

[62613]

Since someone brought up tramlines in connection with this, how old is the stuff on the Heaton Park tramway, in North Manchester?

 

[Jim76]

32 minutes ago, DY444 said:

 

I was a regular traveller on the MML in 1980-82 and my recollection is that everything being installed looked brand new. 

 

Woodhead was still open when they started BedPan and in any event what from Woodhead could actually be re-used?  You wouldn't dismantle and re-use the structures and anyway we know most of the Woodhead ones were intact at closure and beyond plus BedPan was largely head spans.  The insulators are no good for AC, the substation equipment was both obsolete and of no use for AC and DC contact wire is too heavy for AC structures in general and head spans in particular.  I can't think of any other line from which a sizeable volume of usable AC equipment could have been been recovered at the time and re-used so the balance of probability says the answer is no.     

Thanks Clive, I agree with your synopsis but definitely remember reading something on it. I will have to try and find it plus of course that source could have also been wrong. Cheers, Jim 

[DY444]

17 minutes ago, Jim76 said:

Thanks Clive, I agree with your synopsis but definitely remember reading something on it. I will have to try and find it plus of course that source could have also been wrong. Cheers, Jim 

 

You could write a book on the "facts" about railways which are not true but have appeared in numerous books and magazine articles.  It's easy to see how this happens; one gets it wrong and is then endlessly used as a source by others.  That's probably how I will henceforth end up being known as Clive

Edited August 11, 2021 by DY444

[Jim76]

4 minutes ago, DY444 said:

 

You could write a book on the "facts" about railways which are not true but have appeared in numerous books and magazine articles.  It's easy to see how this happens; one gets it wrong and is then endlessly used as a source by others.  That's probably how I will henceforth end up being known as Clive

Sorry 'DY444' or should I say 'Clive'...