This is sick!

[tomparryharry]

So, let's imagine the scenario. In a office meeting somewhere in America. 

 

CEO. "So, how do we increase our sales?"

 

Advertising Exec.  "I  know! let's create something so outlandish, so anti-social, that everyone gets to talk about!"

 

CEO. Good idea! Any suggestions?"

 

I need to check my maths, but the percentage  of deaths via gun crime in the US is about 0.00036% of the population.  ( 14,400 divided by 390,000,000. Source, BBC).

 

Despite the lethality, it looks like a sales gimmick.   " There's no such thing as bad publicity!"

 

 

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, tomparryharry said:

So, let's imagine the scenario. In a office meeting somewhere in America. 

 

CEO. "So, how do we increase our sales?"

 

Advertising Exec.  "I  know! let's create something so outlandish, so anti-social, that everyone gets to talk about!"

 

CEO. Good idea! Any suggestions?"

 

I need to check my maths, but the percentage  of deaths via gun crime in the US is about 0.00036% of the population.  ( 14,400 divided by 390,000,000. Source, BBC).

 

Despite the lethality, it looks like a sales gimmick.   " There's no such thing as bad publicity!"

 

 

The fatality rate is even higher than that, at around 20 000' in 2020:-

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Running totals for 2021 are even higher, according to an article in 'Time' magazine..

[tomparryharry]

5 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

The fatality rate is even higher than that, at around 20 000' in 2020:-

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Running totals for 2021 are even higher, according to an article in 'Time' magazine..

 Going on my earlier maths (which might be wrong, BTW ) that gives us 0.00052 %.  I'd guess the US Birth rate easily overtakes that (unfortunate ) statistic, and I'd think US motoring fatalities are higher still.

[Fat Controller]

2 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

 Going on my earlier maths (which might be wrong, BTW ) that gives us 0.00052 %.  I'd guess the US Birth rate easily overtakes that (unfortunate ) statistic, and I'd think US motoring fatalities are higher still.

You're not wrong about deaths in automobile accidents:-

https://www.nsc.org/newsroom/motor-vehicle-deaths-2020-estimated-to-be-highest

To save you looking, herewith birth-rate figures for 2020:-

https://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2019/01/u-s-fertility-rate-continues-to-decline-reaching-lowest-level-in-40-years/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw_8mHBhClARIsABfFgpi1tbLfqP4u9TIlFAC2Clj3W10wZ3L33IwkpRFhjfOc6psjE_b_cnoaAguwEALw_wcB

[kevinlms]

14 hours ago, sandwich station said:

 

But that's America, shoot first ask questions later.

Of the survivors!

[kevinlms]

3 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

You're not wrong about deaths in automobile accidents:-

https://www.nsc.org/newsroom/motor-vehicle-deaths-2020-estimated-to-be-highest

 

No mention of why the death toll is much higher, even though much less traffic.

 

I would suggest that people are driving faster and probably without seatbelts, but only a guess.

[Mark Saunders]

2 hours ago, kevinlms said:

No mention of why the death toll is much higher, even though much less traffic.

 

I would suggest that people are driving faster and probably without seatbelts, but only a guess.

It was noticeable that during the first UK lockdown that the idiots were easily spotted among the reduced traffic levels!

[Neil]

18 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

..... It is possible to kill people with your bare hands should you choose to. ....

 

However, it's far easier to outrun bare hands than a bullet.

[kevinlms]

26 minutes ago, Neil said:

 

However, it's far easier to outrun bare hands than a bullet.

What steps would you take? Bloody great long ones!

[steve1]

7 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

 Going on my earlier maths (which might be wrong, BTW ) that gives us 0.00052 %.  I'd guess the US Birth rate easily overtakes that (unfortunate ) statistic, and I'd think US motoring fatalities are higher still.

 

So that’s alright then? No matter a few (too many) get killed by guns, the birth rate will take up the slack.

 

The US could do with getting over its John Wayne fixation and start standing up to the NRA fanatics.

 

steve

[tomparryharry]

2 hours ago, steve1 said:

 

So that’s alright then? No matter a few (too many) get killed by guns, the birth rate will take up the slack.

 

The US could do with getting over its John Wayne fixation and start standing up to the NRA fanatics.

 

steve

 

I certainly didn't say it was alright.  As the world races towards a population of 11 billion, then sales of produce worldwide increases  pro-rata. This world population has an ever-increasing desire for up-market goods, to the latest design and desirability. In short, you can compare this firearm to a Faberge egg.  People will want to own (possess ) it, because it's 'rare'. 

 

You can draw a direct line between this gaudy firearm, and some 'salesman' who advertises on EBay  that his 1966 Triang  Jinty is 'rare'. 

 

Desirability, Avarice. Call it want you will.  Guns don't kill people, people, however....   McDonalds, KFC, etc,  probably kill more people every day than a bun fight at the OK tearooms.

[Ozexpatriate]

12 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

I need to check my maths, but the percentage  of deaths via gun crime in the US is about 0.00036% of the population.  ( 14,400 divided by 390,000,000. Source, BBC).

11 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

The fatality rate is even higher than that, at around 20 000' in 2020:-

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Running totals for 2021 are even higher, according to an article in 'Time' magazine..

11 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

 Going on my earlier maths (which might be wrong, BTW ) that gives us 0.00052 %.  I'd guess the US Birth rate easily overtakes that (unfortunate ) statistic, and I'd think US motoring fatalities are higher still.

Lots of variable 'stats' there.

 

I see gunviolencearchive.org provide a total of 10,988 (year to date) violent gun deaths for 2021. The most recent full year total they provide is 15,208 in 2019. (Note that gun violence is seasonal. There are far more gun deaths in warm weather.) The population of the US is now estimated at 332,915,073 in 2021 (not 390M).

 

Using the per 100,000 rate*, this is 4.6 in 2019 - consistent with Pew data from 2017.

 

* Commonly used in mortality reporting

 

Post pandemic, gun violence is increasing. If you want to extrapolate an estimate of 20,000 violent gun deaths in 2021 that would work out to an estimate of 6 per 100,000. This is not impossible but I don't think it is a long-term trend.

 

It's also worth noting that 50% more people die from suicide by gun as other gun deaths.

 

Total gun deaths and traffic deaths have been converging for many years. The macro trend for both (over decades) is down. Gun deaths actually exceeded traffic deaths in 2017. Traffic deaths for 2020 (based on the NSC estimate above) are around 12.7 per 100,000. CDC data for 2019 is 11.5 per 100,000. Total firearm deaths in 2019 (including suicide) was 12.1 per 100,000.

 

In comparison, cumulative CoViD deaths in the US are about 183 per 100,000 (this is not an annual rate but covers the ~16 months of the pandemic). If you want to prorate it, this was be about 137 per 100,000 over 12 months.

 

The birth rate is about 1,200 per 100,000.

[Reorte]

It doesn't make much sense to compare deaths (from any source) to the overall population to give the impression it's low - after all even in the most dangerous parts of the world only a small proportion of the total population dies every year.

[Ozexpatriate]

3 hours ago, Reorte said:

to give the impression it's low

(My emphasis.) There is no editorial intent in my post. I simply presented data to clarify earlier posts using the 'normal' mortality metrics (per 100,000). I did not imply whether I think the numbers are high or low.

 

I have very strong opinions on this subject and it is with great restraint that I hold back. (I live here but I am not an American.)

 

We shouldn't be talking about this topic here at all. It is very political in nature and as a rule we don't discuss politics in wheeltappers.

[Reorte]

13 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:

(My emphasis.) There is no editorial intent in my post. I simply presented data to clarify earlier posts using the 'normal' mortality metrics (per 100,000). I did not imply whether I think the numbers are high or low.

 

I have very strong opinions on this subject and it is with great restraint that I hold back. (I live here but I am not an American.)

 

We shouldn't be talking about this topic here at all. It is very political in nature and as a rule we don't discuss politics in wheeltappers.

Apologies, I wasn't directly responding to your post, I should've been more explicit that it was the earlier ones saying "x deaths out of y population, so very low percentage" that I found misleading. Per 100 000 is a good standard measure.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Reorte