Bachmann announce NEW Class 47

[rob D2]

12 hours ago, Ian J. said:

I still prefer the front-of-cab footsteps on the old Lima model to the new Bachmann one. There must be something wrong with me, I suppose, but just having separately fitted footsteps in order to have that as a selling point, when molding them on actually looks better, seems daft.

The Bachmann footsteps have long upset me - they didn't change them from the older one . It seems a fragility issue having to put imaginary slots in the body to accommodate them is so clunky .

However , Lima belongs back in the 80s and 90s - however good the body moulding , open it up and it's a cheap plastic chassis , powered by a terrible motor out a christmas cracker or cheap toy .

I can put up with the odd inaccuracy of shape but not poor running 

 

[andyman7]

2 hours ago, rob D2 said:

The Bachmann footsteps have long upset me - they didn't change them from the older one . It seems a fragility issue having to put imaginary slots in the body to accommodate them is so clunky .

However , Lima belongs back in the 80s and 90s - however good the body moulding , open it up and it's a cheap plastic chassis , powered by a terrible motor out a christmas cracker or cheap toy .

I can put up with the odd inaccuracy of shape but not poor running 

 

Ironically, the Lima (and Hornby) Ringfield motors were about as far as you could get from being a 'cheap toy' - they were custom made armatures for model railways. The irony was that cheaper, better motors made in the far east gave better running, especially when mated with flywheels.
 

I realise that these days everyone wants to prove that their loco will move one inch in an hour on their shunting plank, but the old Lima mechanisms actually do a pretty good job of romping around loop layouts. They lack weight, pickups and have traction tyres but if all you want is a loco to trundle round, it's still cheaper to sort the original mechanism than pay £100+ for a new superdetail chassis.

 

What this takes us back to as that these days there is no 'right' answer as to whether someone upgrades a model; once the body shape is fundamentally correct, your choice will be based round your budget; your preferences; how much 'modelling' rather than box opening you might enjoy; and your prelidiction for bells and whistles. The new Bachmann 47 is a lovely model but not cheap in SFX version so it is perfectly understandable that many will ask the question about whether they really need it.

[adb968008]

6 hours ago, rob D2 said:

 

However , Lima belongs back in the 80s and 90s - however good the body moulding , open it up and it's a cheap plastic chassis , powered by a terrible motor out a christmas cracker or cheap toy .

I can put up with the odd inaccuracy of shape but not poor running 

 

There are some none -railroad models by more than 1 manufacturer whom I wouldnt consider to be that much different today, and one of them wants nearly £200 for its loco… I judge many of my new models by the value under the hood as well as above it, as imo it gives me an idea as to how much or how little the manufacturer really cares about its product, how it will perform and how long it might last.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by adb968008

[rob D2]

8 hours ago, andyman7 said:

Ironically, the Lima (and Hornby) Ringfield motors were about as far as you could get from being a 'cheap toy' - they were custom made armatures for model railways. The irony was that cheaper, better motors made in the far east gave better running, especially when mated with flywheels.
 

I realise that these days everyone wants to prove that their loco will move one inch in an hour on their shunting plank, but the old Lima mechanisms actually do a pretty good job of romping around loop layouts. They lack weight, pickups and have traction tyres but if all you want is a loco to trundle round, it's still cheaper to sort the original mechanism than pay £100+ for a new superdetail chassis.

 

What this takes us back to as that these days there is no 'right' answer as to whether someone upgrades a model; once the body shape is fundamentally correct, your choice will be based round your budget; your preferences; how much 'modelling' rather than box opening you might enjoy; and your prelidiction for bells and whistles. The new Bachmann 47 is a lovely model but not cheap in SFX version so it is perfectly understandable that many will ask the question about whether they really need it.

True and the second hand market looks quite soft at present.

If I was starting out now , I couldn’t afford a new Bachmann 47 - except one version I’ve seen down at £169 , which I could scrape in - I guess that’s the least popular one .

So i scour the eBay pages as Botha buyer and seller - I have an Bachmann 47834 to sell, but at oresent they don’t seem to go much over £100, and I’d be looking for a bit more . You can see the cost of living squeeze alive and well on there as a lot of stuff ain’t shifting 

[adb968008]

9 hours ago, rob D2 said:

True and the second hand market looks quite soft at present.

If I was starting out now , I couldn’t afford a new Bachmann 47 - except one version I’ve seen down at £169 , which I could scrape in - I guess that’s the least popular one .

So i scour the eBay pages as Botha buyer and seller - I have an Bachmann 47834 to sell, but at oresent they don’t seem to go much over £100, and I’d be looking for a bit more . You can see the cost of living squeeze alive and well on there as a lot of stuff ain’t shifting 

I wonder how that transposes to new sales ?

 

if people sell to make space and fund new purchases are they deferring the new purchase or continuing to put new money into the hobby or simply selling up to fund other things, which means money leaving the hobby ?

 

I always thought £100 was about right for a s/h Bachmann 47. Most of mine were in this range. £130 was no resistance for a new one. Once it went north of that my interest starts declining, once past £180-200 my interest is gone.
 

I get all the arguments on inflation, exchange rates and Chinese labour, it is what it is, but everyone has a threshold.

 

Thing is I’m largely coming to the view my collection is approaching complete anyway, and as units aren’t on the horizon I’ve no place to go - duplication isn’t really my path, it needs to be compelling to upgrade and the new 47 isn’t imo bar a few gaps.

 

if more Scottish large logo 47/4’s were made, or Original Intercity I could squeeze in a few more. But it depends on price… I note on ebay these tend to be the only ones at the highest end of price ranges on the older tooling which suggests I’m not alone in my thoughts.

 

maybe this is where the hobby plateaus and we see less new from manufacturers, and more s/h trading of last generation toolings at their lower price points… a bit like what happened in the 1990’s once the Lima boom was over?

 

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by adb968008

[Matt]

Adb968008 I find myself agreeing with everything of your last 3 posts!!  Our situations seem to mirror closely. It’s why I’ve only bought 47711 and 004 from new batch of 47s so far - good old Scottish ones - similar might temp me but replacing what I have is unlikely from my large fleet of old Bach and vitrains.

[Matt]

10 hours ago, rob D2 said:

True and the second hand market looks quite soft at present.

If I was starting out now , I couldn’t afford a new Bachmann 47 - except one version I’ve seen down at £169 , which I could scrape in - I guess that’s the least popular one .

So i scour the eBay pages as Botha buyer and seller - I have an Bachmann 47834 to sell, but at oresent they don’t seem to go much over £100, and I’d be looking for a bit more . You can see the cost of living squeeze alive and well on there as a lot of stuff ain’t shifting 

You touch on what has always been a weird one for me. On the old Bach 47 it always seemed that 47834 in intercity swallow hung around for ever, was heavily discounted and readily available s/h.  Same was true of 47365 / 47306 in RFD Euro.

 

So I was really surprised that 826 and 375 formed part of new 47 launch line-up…. Can’t help thinking other liveries might have sold better? Intercity Exec seems more sought after and large logo seems generally to sell… nothing been released in parcels or RES for years etc.  I’m sure we’ll see in time.

 

[Covkid]

22 hours ago, adb968008 said:

So instead I maintain status quo. I have 1 new Bachmann 47, and 1 pending. Ive none of Heljans next 47 on order. With the 37’s its really only 37/6 and DRS era 37/4.. stuffing the gaps. With 02/11/86/87/90/91/92 and 45/1 and 59 all on the way or here in 2022 i’m really not sure what 2023 has to offer.

I’m not feeling the incentive or motivation to upgrade.

This tooling duplication war isn't doing much for me…

 

I feel similarly. I have two Bachmann 47s from the original release - a green and a blue, and they will suffice for me for the future, because I cannot justify £300+ unless I have a retirement treat in a year or two.

All the UK main line diesels have been done, so whatever is produced new will be retool or new tool of existing catalogue.  The open goals are the smaller industrial types.  Those cute little Barclays, Brushes and Bagnalls, and there are plenty of them. 

 

Top of my list is the Bagnall DL2 which was basically a Bagnall "Drewry". Although there weren't many, they carried several liveries and the one at Pitstone (Tring) wore bright red paint. Ideal for shunting all the new HAAs around !!!

 

chasewaterrailwaymuseum.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/3160-1959-kevin-lane.jpg

 

My preference is towards the NCB locos active in Staffordshire in the 1960s and 1970s and some like this would be my choice, thios one preserved at Chasewater.

 

chasewaterrailwaymuseum.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/bagnall-0-6-0-dm-3119_web.jpg?w=500&h=333

 

Same design at Wolstanton colliery in 1979

 

Wolstanton Colliery Bagnall | Bagnall 0-6-0 (3123 of 1957) W… | Flickr

 

Obviously many other industrial designs are ripe for picking including the Yorkshire DE1 with the slope sided engine doors. Plenty of these in the metal bashing industry.

 

 Yorkshire at Round Oak Steelworks (pjs,0813) | With Round Oa… | Flickr

 

 

 

 

[James Makin]

I wonder if Bachmann ever considered a ‘Railroad’ equivalent? That would be a fascinating concept!

 

If they released their original Class 47 tool again, and boshed it out at £100 brand new, I’d buy them all day long and add the fiddly bits myself!

[40002]

49 minutes ago, James Makin said:

I wonder if Bachmann ever considered a ‘Railroad’ equivalent? That would be a fascinating concept!

 

If they released their original Class 47 tool again, and boshed it out at £100 brand new, I’d buy them all day long and add the fiddly bits myself!

But that would likely impact sales of their newer more expensive models, and in the case of the 47 is already served by Hornby. It strikes me Hornby only produce Railroad versions because they either don't want or carn't afford to put the investment into decent high quality models. In the case of the 47 probably not a wise investment for Hornby anyway as its already well served by Bachmann and Heljen.

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by 40002

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, James Makin said:

I wonder if Bachmann ever considered a ‘Railroad’ equivalent? That would be a fascinating concept!

 

If they released their original Class 47 tool again, and boshed it out at £100 brand new, I’d buy them all day long and add the fiddly bits myself!

 

unfortunately those days are gone. Hornby's railroad 47 is £100 now.

 

I couldn't imagine a ckd 47 being much cheaper than an rtr 47, on either new or old tooling.

 

it would also find itself competing against rtr 47’s of the last tooling in the s/h market at the same price.

 

I suspect part of the prices we are seeing isn't so much about assembly line and final product cost, but the expectation that people wont sell up and upgrade.  

 

The s/h market will supply for at least a decade enough models for modellers projects and by such time the excess may wane, salaries improve to match inflation and todays prices may look attractive.

(There was a whole decade where you couldn't give Lima away, today its worth more than the rrp it was originally sold at).

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by adb968008

[GordonC]

I'm also finding I'm less interested in celebrity or one-off liveries when it comes to models. When they were nearer the £100 mark I could more impulsively just buy something because I liked it. As the price nears £200 I'm much more interested in the common liveries and ones that would be used and ran all the time.

[rob D2]

7 hours ago, Matt said:

You touch on what has always been a weird one for me. On the old Bach 47 it always seemed that 47834 in intercity swallow hung around for ever, was heavily discounted and readily available s/h.  Same was true of 47365 / 47306 in RFD Euro.

 

So I was really surprised that 826 and 375 formed part of new 47 launch line-up…. Can’t help thinking other liveries might have sold better? Intercity Exec seems more sought after and large logo seems generally to sell… nothing been released in parcels or RES for years etc.  I’m sure we’ll see in time.

 

I think you are spot on there.

A parcels one would do well and like you say LL would be popular on a potato !

 

I wonder if the reason IC and RFD were not so popular is the period they represent or the fact the former is normally attached to 7 coaches and the latter were predominately long container trains 

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I think you are spot on there.

A parcels one would do well and like you say LL would be popular on a potato !

 

I wonder if the reason IC and RFD were not so popular is the period they represent or the fact the former is normally attached to 7 coaches and the latter were predominately long container trains 

Intercity Swallow was hugely popular at its time, but rfd europe livery Ive never recalled as a popular model on any loco. 

 

Personally I think theres too much clash the dark blue doesnt look good with RfD.

 

For Swallow livery, Lima did 6 of them, 47676 plus 47809/33/5/8/41 

Heljan managed 47805/26 and vitrains 47844, even Hornby did 1.

 

I suspect 47835 struggled with Bachmann as originally they mistakenly put rail light grey instead of silver white on the bottom band… they did replacement bodies but I think that stuck as the incorrect ones do pop up still, but that it was number 11 to market and at that time Heljans werent yet self combusting.

47834 Fire Fly was popular… ive renumbered it at least 3 times.

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by adb968008

[Matt]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

I suspect 47835 struggled with Bachmann as originally they mistakenly put rail light grey instead of silver white on the bottom band… they did replacement bodies but I think that stuck as the incorrect ones do pop up still, but that it was number 11 to market and at that time Heljans werent yet self combusting.

 

 

I don’t think that’s quite right. I had 835 on order from Bachmann and it came with correct lower body side colour at release time.  You are absolutely correct that there are versions kicking about with incorrect colours (I bought one from Bachmann stand at a show for £10) but my experience leads me to believe Bachmann realised the error and changed bodies before release, later shifting incorrect bodies discounted. There was some story at the time that 835 and the Dutch 47/9 were retailer exclusives that fell through and hence sold direct from Bachmann - wonder if fell through because of delays associated with above.

M

[GordonC]

I liked the Railfreight Distribution European version at the time on the real locos, but for some reason have always preferred the original Railfreight Distribution on models.

 

Would the 47835 model have more limited renumbering options with the flush-front at one end? Although limited editions dont tend to be used for renumbering as often.

 

47834 was definitely not one of the more popular releases bearing in mind it was included with the 47365/47745/47834 sell off at greatly reduced prices a few years ago.

[adb968008]

10 hours ago, GordonC said:

I liked the Railfreight Distribution European version at the time on the real locos, but for some reason have always preferred the original Railfreight Distribution on models.

 

Would the 47835 model have more limited renumbering options with the flush-front at one end? Although limited editions dont tend to be used for renumbering as often.

 

47834 was definitely not one of the more popular releases bearing in mind it was included with the 47365/47745/47834 sell off at greatly reduced prices a few years ago.

Depends on your pov.

 

There was so many 47’s to pick from, they were all discounted, right from announcement before release it was a race to the bottom on price….25-35% discount from the minute they arrived in the shops.

 

if your comparing it to “exclusives”, things like 47406/47522 etc well yes.

 

But in the good old days, discounts in no way reflected demand… theres still dregs of it left if you look for them… Hattons have class 71’s for £89… theve been around that mark for 5 years now.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2022 by adb968008

[GordonC]

23 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Depends on your pov.

 

There was so many 47’s to pick from, they were all discounted, right from announcement before release it was a race to the bottom on price….25-35% discount from the minute they arrived in the shops.

 

if your comparing it to “exclusives”, things like 47406/47522 etc well yes.

 

But in the good old days, discounts in no way reflected demand.

 

 

 

 

 

Bachmann dont tend to produce too many at once - but it was the life extended Crewe-Cut ones where the whole lot seemed to linger on shop shelves. 25-35% off perhaps doesn't indicate poor sellers, but I'm sure they were closer to £70 and 50% off by the time everywhere was selling them off. Perhaps production quantities were too high, but they certainly cant have achieved expected demand.

[rob D2]

Good points .

I think what's popular comes down to demographics as well .

 

Im a kid of the blue era - but how many identical blue ones do i need even with renumbering etc ?

 

As for intercity - loco hauled by virgin stopped in 2002 so you'd have to be 30 plus years old minimum to have seen these in normal service , so i wonder if that's a factor in the sales mix 

 

 

[adb968008]

8 hours ago, rob D2 said:

As for intercity - loco hauled by virgin stopped in 2002 so you'd have to be 30 plus years old minimum to have seen these in normal service , so i wonder if that's a factor in the sales mix 

That makes me feel old.. 
 

When people used to talk to me about 1960’s BR steam, in the late 1980’s, whilst looking at Intercity 47’s… it wasnt even 20 years yet since BR steam finished… (1988 was 20 years from 1968)… 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by adb968008

[Matt]

44 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

That makes me feel old.. 
 

When people used to talk to me about 1960’s BR steam, in the late 1980’s, whilst looking at Intercity 47’s… it wasnt even 20 years yet since BR steam finished… (1988 was 20 years from 1968)… 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks I’d never looked at it that way. You have made me feel old now too…😭

[rob D2]

I am old .

50 , where did that come from ??

 

Anyway , i wonder also if people of very late 80s and 90s to privatisation fixate on freight as the cross country diet of just HSTs and 47s , albeit in swallow colours , was a bit ... dull 

Edited October 31, 2022 by rob D2

[adb968008]

57 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

I am old .

50 , where did that come from ??

 

Anyway , i wonder also if people of very late 80s and 90s to privatisation fixate on freight as the cross country diet of just HSTs and 47s , albeit in swallow colours , was a bit ... dull 

Depends where you start / end…

 

Regional Railways livened up the place, with freight locos of any type, followed by 37’s then 31’s, then Reg Rly 37’s.

NSE brought up 50’s and their final years, followed by 47/7’s and running 33’s into the ground.

73/2’s lasted an eternity on Gatwick Express

 

Then there was any number of celebrity repaints, Open Days, railtours and even Network North West days…

 

Up in Scotland 26s fading out,somewhere in that lot 45’s dissapeared.…

 

Then arose the Chipman Weedkilling train with Hunslet Barclay class 20’s, and BRT 20’s and the Tinsley green ones, not forgetting the odd ball 20066.

 

Even units got a following, Manchester inherited everyone elses cast offs… 303’s, then 305’s and even Clacton units all in appropriate colours, WYPTE got 307’s…

 

Then of course the new stuff was kind of colourful too Pacers, GMPTE, T&W, WYPTE, Mersey Rail, NEtwork North West, Midline, SYPTE, 

 

Class 47 liveries did champion everything though… every 47 was unique it felt like.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by adb968008

[Mophead45143]

On 31/10/2022 at 09:41, rob D2 said:

 

As for intercity - loco hauled by virgin stopped in 2002 so you'd have to be 30 plus years old minimum to have seen these in normal service , so i wonder if that's a factor in the sales mix 

 

 

E're, I'm not quite that old yet and I remember Intercity alright!!! 😁

 

[shunny]

Speaking to Steve my local shop owner and he was saying his biggest sellers are now diesels rather than steam. The sound fitted are very popular and class 47 have been selling well. Another consideration is the last guy to come in and ask about starting hobby who has recently retired stated he wanted 70's and 80's diesels as that's what he remembers running. Looks to be a good decision from Bachmann.