Electric, Hybrid and Alternative fuelled vehicles - News and Discussion

[Guest]

 Although in fairness I couldn't see much difference in boot space in the Golf EV which is one of the problems with some cars conventional IC platforms adapted to EV or hybrid. 

 

Probably the Golf doesn't have room for a spare. The leaf has plenty of room for a spare but you don't get one in the UK.

Even the Leaf is compromised by being built in a factory that makes IC cars. If you look under the bonnet all the electrical bits are very engine-shaped so they can be built on an existing assembly line.

 

You'd probably need to go to Tesla to see a clean sheet of paper in both car and factory.

[jjb1970]

A few years ago I did some design approvals for some Ro-Ro ferry hybrid conversions, at the time the battery packs were claimed to be the largest Li-ion batteries in the world at 2.7MWhr. The idea was to go from running four diesels to running one diesel at maximum power constantly and using the battery to boost output when more power was needed and recharging it when the engine provided excess power. Most of the requirement to run additional engines was for manoeuvring and sprinting for a small part of the passage and the engines spent much time operating at low load which is not efficient. Operating one engine flat out at steady load was much more efficient, reduced maintenance and the hybrid arrangement meant no loss in manoeuvrability or speed. The project was very successful.

[Ron Ron Ron]

.... I think the Leaf actually looks more attractive as I tend to think that EVs developed from the outset to be EVs will work better than adapting IC platforms ....

....in fairness I couldn't see much difference in boot space in the Golf EV which is one of the problems with some cars conventional IC platforms adapted to EV or hybrid. 

 

 

Using existing IC platforms will diminish as manufacturers introduce new car ranges that are either exclusively EV, or are designed to accommodate both EV or various of the Hybrid configurations.

 

New car models designed to run as pure ICE, will disappear within 5 to 10 years from now.

 

As for the Golf EV.

Volkswagen will be introducing its ID range of EV's from 2020.]

There's a Golf sized hatchback in that range.

 

 

.

[jjb1970]

I know some of the big (by big I do mean big, marine engine) diesel engine builders have decided the diesel engine platforms now in their catalogues or with development already funded will see them out and they're redirecting R&D money and resource into alternative technologies.

[Guest]

Came across James & Kate's review of the E Golf today.

Bit long. Main points: Generally very very good car. Stock heater is stupid and knocks 60 miles of the estimated range. VW dealers are clueless about them and will do their level best not to sell you one.

 

[jjb1970]

Funnily enough the local VW dealer in MK made no effort whatsoever to sell me a Passat GTE. I had a look, asked for a test drive which was grudgingly arranged and when I asked a few questions via e-mail never returned them and when I followed up by phone were rather disinterested. I found it bizarre, no potential customer should be treated as a time waster but they'd already sold us a Golf so presumably that is evidence of not being a time waster. When we looked at the BMW i3 they were much more helpful than the VW shop but tried to persuade us that we'd prefer a 1 Series. Conversely, the local Audi dealer (owned by the same company) couldn't have been more helpful. I guess there is an element of luck in terms of who you see and what side of bed they got out of but still.

[jjb1970]

Another sign of the times:

 

https://www.km.kongsberg.com/ks/web/nokbg0240.nsf/AllWeb/4B8113B707A50A4FC125811D00407045

 

Probably over hyped ship in the world but nevertheless a pointer to the future in many ways.

[Nearholmer]

Dealerships are staffed by people who know how to sell what they’ve sold for years, petrol and diesel cars.

 

They understand ‘traditional car culture’, the difference between what sells cars to men, and to women etc etc.

 

But, EVs are outside of their mental landscape ......they don’t understand them at a technical level (sales staff rarely actually understand IC either, but they’ve spent a lifetime practising how to sound as if they do), and, here I think a bigger issue, they don’t understand them culturally ....... there is no established “patter” around e-cars, appealing to a bloke’s inner-Clarkson sort of doesn’t work, nobody really has a firm grip on residual value etc etc ..... in short, sales staff are flummoxed by them.

 

When major heritage makers like VW launch their ‘proper’ electric range, they’d probably be better off opening a new set of showrooms, staffed by people who are used to selling iPads or the like, because if they entrust their new babies to their present teams, they will bomb.

 

The entire culture of traditional car dealerships is at odds with the coming products and who might buy them most. The staff even dress wrongly for the product. It probably needs a geek-chic, mildly hipsterish atmosphere, with a target audience of prosperous 30-40 year olds in mind, not the very outdated ‘blazer, shirt and tie’, with subtle references to motor sport, model that operates now.

 

And, I do wonder if the “offering” will end-up being more like ‘annual contract’ than purchase ..... much more like the way people ‘buy’ phones ..... with people switching models or deals quite readily in pursuit of either lower price or higher features. And, a lot of it could happen over the Internet, rather than at showrooms. See this for instance https://www.joindrover.com/cars/search

 

The vehicles are likely to be highly modular, so the clear distinction between ‘new’ and ‘secondhand’ could disappear ...... it might be that all we will look for is a vehicle that is in sparkling condition, and is configured to meet our need for the coming year, and the various modules could be of different ages.

 

EVs could easily be a catalyst for a lot more change than simply what makes the wheels go round.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Guest]

But, EVs are outside of their mental landscape ......they don’t understand them at a technical level (sales staff rarely actually understand IC either, but they’ve spent a lifetime practising how to sound as if they do), and, here I think a bigger issue, they don’t understand them culturally ....... there is no established “patter” around e-cars, appealing to a bloke’s inner-Clarkson sort of doesn’t work, nobody really has a firm grip on residual value etc etc ..... in short, sales staff are flummoxed by them.

What's becoming apparent with EVs is that certain dealers have embraced selling them and they are not selling them to local people. They hang out in EV forms like DJM Dave does here. They engage with people and build a reputation. People either travel miles to them past dozens of other dealers or get cars delivered.

I travelled 50 miles to get mine and drove it home before the local dealer had got back to me about a test drive.

[jjb1970]

We have two EV shops in the main shopping mall here in MK, a Tesla showroom and an EV experience centre. It's an interesting idea to bring car showrooms to a regular shopping centre.

[PatB]

Funnily enough the local VW dealer in MK made no effort whatsoever to sell me a Passat GTE. I had a look, asked for a test drive which was grudgingly arranged and when I asked a few questions via e-mail never returned them and when I followed up by phone were rather disinterested. I found it bizarre, no potential customer should be treated as a time waster but they'd already sold us a Golf so presumably that is evidence of not being a time waster. When we looked at the BMW i3 they were much more helpful than the VW shop but tried to persuade us that we'd prefer a 1 Series. Conversely, the local Audi dealer (owned by the same company) couldn't have been more helpful. I guess there is an element of luck in terms of who you see and what side of bed they got out of but still.

I often find myself amazed at how uninterested salespeople can be in selling stuff, and it's not just EVs. When we bought our Scudo we went to both Perth dealerships and asked for a test drive. One seemed flabbergasted at the concept and very grudgingly allowed me to pilot their demonstrator 100 m up the road with the salesman in the passenger seat. The other threw us the keys, said "It's got a full tank, take it away and do what you want with it. Just get it back before we close at 6", so we did. No guesses as to who we bought from.

[Ozexpatriate]

When major heritage makers like VW launch their ‘proper’ electric range, they’d probably be better off opening a new set of showrooms, staffed by people who are used to selling iPads or the like, because if they entrust their new babies to their present teams, they will bomb.

When they launched the Model S, Tesla opened "showrooms" at big shopping malls - essentially right next to the Apple store. They had a demonstrator chassis showing the drive components and a couple of vehicles. There was no test driving. There was however an enormous amount of foot traffic to 'check it out'.

 

I believe they have scaled this back. There is so much demand for the Model 3, and they still haven't got the production issues sorted that at this point they are taking orders they can't fill. I did see a car transporter on I-880 today leaving the Tesla factory. It was loaded up with a couple of the Model X, some of the Model S and a few of the Model 3.  I've not seen many of the Model 3 actually driving on the road, though I think I caught a glimpse of one today.

[jjb1970]

Some news on the other EVs:

 

https://www.aol.co.uk/2018/03/14/met-police-team-up-with-toyota-to-have-hydrogen-fuel-cell-police/?guccounter=1

[rdr]

Sadly if you were buying your i3 now you'd be lumped with a £140 annual VED bill.

Personally I'd stick with full-electric but the REX is a way better idea than the tax-dodge barely-move-on-electric PHEVs

you could buy a portable generator suitable for charging the car and run it in the boot with an exhaust directed out of the car. Saves on the ved.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Audi plans to make 800,000 Hybrid's and EV's by 2025.

 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-audi-electric/audi-eyes-800000-electric-and-hybrid-car-sales-in-2025-idUKKBN1I92HJ

 

https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/press-releases/audi-fleshes-out-its-corporate-strategy-and-plans-to-sell-800000-electrified-cars-in-2025-10217

 

 

 

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[Ron Ron Ron]

Norway leads the way in Europe.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-environment-norway-autos/norway-powers-ahead-over-half-new-car-sales-now-electric-or-hybrid-idUSKBN1ES0WC

 

 

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[Jol Wilkinson]

Norway leads the way in Europe.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-environment-norway-autos/norway-powers-ahead-over-half-new-car-sales-now-electric-or-hybrid-idUSKBN1ES0WC

 

 

.

 

Considerable grants and exemptions for EVs, plus an electrical energy supply based on hydro, so it's not really surprising.

 

Canada, another country with significant hydro generation had less than 3% EV, PEV, etc. sales as a percentage of the total in 2016. Perhaps  an indication of both a cultural as well as financial inducement being a strong factor.

[Horsetan]

Funnily enough the local VW dealer in MK made no effort whatsoever to sell me a Passat GTE. ....

 

I've only seen one Golf E on the road down here.

[jjb1970]

The City of London Police use a very snazzy looking Golf GTE interceptor:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUdRSX9-AXQ

 

Electric cars should be perfect for the City of London Police given where they are, although I've never quite understood quite why they need cars like BMW 5 Series etc to patrol a square mile.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Apologies if I've missed this elsewhere on the thread, but I can't find a definitive answer.

Does a home charging system need a dedicated circuit, as in a 45 amp shower feed type of situation, or can it be charged via a standard 13 amp socket?

I'm assuming in my ignorance, that the latter is possible, just that it will take more time to deliver the required top up.

 

Mike.

[Buhar]

Hi Mike, a so-called Granny Charger will work and some users keep one for charging at a home they're visiting. There are comments around about an over-heating risk and a charge will take at least 12 hours. Getting a dedicated unit is much better and there is financial support to install it.

[Guest]

Apologies if I've missed this elsewhere on the thread, but I can't find a definitive answer.

Does a home charging system need a dedicated circuit, as in a 45 amp shower feed type of situation, or can it be charged via a standard 13 amp socket?

I'm assuming in my ignorance, that the latter is possible, just that it will take more time to deliver the required top up.

 

Mike.

A home charger will be on its own 16 or 32 amp circuit depending on whether you go for a 3.5 or 7 kw one.

You can charge from a 13A socket although Nissan recommend it to be on its own 16A spur.

[Ron Ron Ron]

A taste of what's to come from France.

Step by step, Paris is trying to rid itself of petrol and diesel cars, and persuade people to use other types of transport.

 

So far the city has banned all conventional cars built before 1997 from entering the city centre on weekdays between 8am and 8pm.

Diesels registered before 2001 are also prohibited.

Drivers breaching the bans face heavy fines.

 

Next year, the restrictions will be widened to include pre-2005 diesels. 

The clampdown will then continue in stages. 

Diesels are due to be outlawed altogether in 2024, and petrol cars in 2030.

 

 

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Edited May 30, 2018 by Ron Ron Ron

[DIW]

Not just Paris, either.

 

The current requirement for a sticker to indicate a vehicle's emissions grouping in Paris has been extended. Cities such as Rennes, Lille, Strasbourg and Dijon (plus surrounding areas) are included.

 

Have a look at the current map of 'Environmental Zones' to see if your planned Autoroute passes through one of the zones (Zoomed in version here).

Edited May 30, 2018 by DIW

[Joseph_Pestell]

A taste of what's to come from France.

Step by step, Paris is trying to rid itself of petrol and diesel cars, and persuade people to use other types of transport.

 

So far the city has banned all conventional cars built before 1997 from entering the city centre on weekdays between 8am and 8pm.

Diesels registered before 2001 are also prohibited.

Drivers breaching the bans face heavy fines.

 

Next year, the restrictions will be widened to include pre-2005 diesels. 

The clampdown will then continue in stages. 

Diesels are due to be outlawed altogether in 2024, and petrol cars in 2030.

 

 

.

 

No exemptions at all? Rather a pity for those guys who were running tourist tours in 2CVs and 11Bs.