Electric, Hybrid and Alternative fuelled vehicles - News and Discussion

[Ron Ron Ron]

On 23/11/2020 at 20:47, Ron Ron Ron said:

SMMT UK sales figures for October 2020.

 

BEV  9,335  (up from 3,162 in Oct 2019)    =   6.6% of the market (up from 2.2% in Oct 2019)

Hybrid + Plug-in Hybrid  18,813  (up from 11,069 in Oct 2019)   =  13.3% of the market (up from 7.7% in Oct 2019)

Mild Hybrid (both petrol & diesel)  22,152  (up from 6,394 in Oct 2019).  =  15.7% of the market (up from 4.4% in Oct 2019)

 

Combined, BEV, PHEV, Hybrid, Mild-Hybrid, accounted for 35.6% of the new cars sold in the UK in Oct 2020, compared to 14.3% for the same month last year.

Diesel sales (pure diesel, non-hybrid) accounted for only 14.9%.

Petrol slumped from 61.9% in Oct 2019, to 49.5% in Oct 2020

(note: total sales only slightly down, 1.6%, from Oct 2019)

 

Year to date 2020: 

BEV  75,946  =  5.5% of the total market (up from 1.4% in 2019)

 

 

 

SMMT UK sales figures for November 2020.

 

BEV  10,345  (up from 4,652 in Nov 2019)   =  9.1% of the market (up from 3.0% in Nov 2019)

Hybrid + Plug-in Hybrid  14,833   (up from 11,460 in Nov 2019)   =  13.1% of the market (up from 7.3% in Nov 2019)

 

 

Combined, BEV, PHEV, Hybrid, Mild-Hybrid, accounted for 36.9% of the new cars sold in the UK in Nov 2020, compared to 15.4% for the same month last year.

Diesel sales (pure diesel, non-hybrid) accounted for only 14.0%.

Petrol slumped from 61.4% in Nov 2019, to 49.1% in Nov 2020

(note: total sales down 27.4%, compared with Nov 2019)

 

Year to date 2020: 

BEV  86,291  =  5.8% of the total market  (up from 1.5% in 2019)

 

 

 

 

 

.

[PenrithBeacon]

Very useful info, thanks for that. No mention of hydrogen powered machines then! They must be the way forward eventually as they will eliminate all the pallaver surrounding refuelling of BEVs

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Very useful info, thanks for that. No mention of hydrogen powered machines then! They must be the way forward eventually as they will eliminate all the pallaver surrounding refuelling of BEVs

 

Where do you get the hydrogen?

[Ian Morgan]

30 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

Where do you get the hydrogen?

 

Norway? Perhaps not...

 

 

[PenrithBeacon]

2 hours ago, 30801 said:

 

Where do you get the hydrogen?

https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-fuel-basics

But I think you know that already 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-fuel-basics

But I think you know that already 

Yeah, fossil fuel or use electricity inefficiently.

There are some cases where hydrogen makes sense when you really need the energy density.

Cars isn’t really one of them unless electricity gets to be as cheap and plentiful as they once said it would with nuclear.

[PenrithBeacon]

If the electricity comes from renewable sources then it's cheap and clean to produce hydrogen.

Nowadays wind and sun can be cheaper than any other source except perhaps using the heat from the planet's core. There are prototypes being built to test that theory now.

I still think that BEVs have a limited application and that will hold back the investment in recharging points. 

The future lies with hydrogen but perhaps not before 2030.

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

If the electricity comes from renewable sources then it's cheap and clean to produce hydrogen.

 

It had better be cheap because you're going to need twice as much of it to run your hydrogen car.

[idd15]

More nuggets of EV charging  news:

 

Get 'em while they're hot!

 

idd

 

PS Sorry just couldn't resist 

[idd15]

3 hours ago, 30801 said:

 

It had better be cheap because you're going to need twice as much of it to run your hydrogen car.

 

That might just happen. Interesting perspective on renewables here:

BBC Article

 

idd

[Ron Ron Ron]

With all the billions being invested in battery production plants and in new battery tech R&D, the die has been cast for the motoring industry for the next 20 to 30 years. 
BEV will become the mainstream.

 

 

.

[johnd]

9 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

With all the billions being invested in battery production plants and in new battery tech R&D, the die has been cast for the motoring industry for the next 20 to 30 years. 
BEV will become the mainstream.

 

 

.

 

That is until the greens/politically governed discover what the true scale desecration of the planet being done by current trends. BACK TO USING ONES OWN LEGS IM AFFRAID  is the only true ecological means of transport! 

 

A major change of mind set and a big shock to those that don't walk but drive everywhere!

 

Even producing Bikes doesn't help the planet it uses resources! 

Edited December 8, 2020 by johnd

[PenrithBeacon]

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/dec/08/the-curse-of-white-oil-electric-vehicles-dirty-secret-lithium

[Enterprisingwestern]

10 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

With all the billions being invested in battery production plants and in new battery tech R&D, the die has been cast for the motoring industry for the next 20 to 30 years. 
BEV will become the mainstream.

 

 

.

 

 I believe something similar was said about 3 rail in the 40's and 50's.

 

Mike.

[black and decker boy]

53 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/dec/08/the-curse-of-white-oil-electric-vehicles-dirty-secret-lithium

Swings and roundabouts though isn’t it.

A car, no matter it’s propulsion system, uses natural resources for its steel or aluminium shell, its glazing, its copper wiring, its galv/paint etc

 

Renewables use the same resources to make the wind farms & solar panels including vast quantities of concrete & tarmac where the HV cables crisscross our rural countryside. Offshore, they impact on the marine environment.

 

a hydrogen based future needs a significant amount of distribution & storage infrastructure creating. You cannot move a pressurised gas in a petrol tanker nor store it in a buried fibreglass tank. 
 

whatever way things go, compromises will be needed and new infrastructure, with associated impact, will be needed.

 

The future will no doubt be a mix of both, well, until Teleports are invented.

[Michael Hodgson]

16 hours ago, 30801 said:

 

It had better be cheap because you're going to need twice as much of it to run your hydrogen car.

 

As the waste product is H20, won't we raise the sea level still further and eventually run out of oxygen to breathe if the whole world switches to that? 

[Nick C]

Just don't buy a LEAF - at least not a US market one:

 

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/12/05/my-2018-nissan-leaf-is-falling-apart-at-66k-miles/

 

I'd heard bad things about the build quality of modern Nissan ICEVs, it looks like their EVs suffer as well - many of the things mentioned (doorhandles, stub axles, etc) shouldn't fail for at least 10 years, regardless of the propulsion source. 12v battery dying at 18 months? It should last 4-5 years!

[PenrithBeacon]

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55218573

[black and decker boy]

10 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55218573

so not likely to be a mass market prospect this decade then but could be a contender towards 2030 and beyond.

[Fenman]

...

 

I'm curious, after you've lived with your lovely-looking ID3 for a few weeks, how youre finding it?

 

(I had a test drive and enjoyed my brief time with one.)

 

Paul

 

 

 

[boxbrownie]

13 minutes ago, Fenman said:

...

 

I'm curious, after you've lived with your lovely-looking ID3 for a few weeks, how youre finding it?

 

(I had a test drive and enjoyed my brief time with one.)

 

Paul

 

 

 

Our friends test drove the id3 last week as an offer from their VW dealer, our friends were less than impressed.....not sure exactly why, they said it drove nice, was comfortable and quick but didn’t like the interior especially the “big TV panels”......I think they will stick with their boring Tiguan for a while 

[Fenman]

6 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Our friends test drove the id3 last week as an offer from their VW dealer, our friends were less than impressed.....not sure exactly why, they said it drove nice, was comfortable and quick but didn’t like the interior especially the “big TV panels”......I think they will stick with their boring Tiguan for a while 

 

I also thought it drives beautifully -- fast and precise, everything is very predictable and smooth. And quiet. It's really very impressive, especially for what is meant to be a mass-market car.

 

But I was also a bit disappointed with the interior, which has too much not very nice-looking hard plastic for me. And I was irritated by the complexity involved in trying to, eg, change the temperature, or the speed of the aircon fan (though those could just be things that you get used to). But the tv panels are taking over, so I guess all of us will need to adapt.

 

But it's why I was curious what the OP felt, now he's spent several weeks with his. How has the adaptation gone?

 

Paul

 

[Nick C]

1 hour ago, Fenman said:

And I was irritated by the complexity involved in trying to, eg, change the temperature, or the speed of the aircon fan (though those could just be things that you get used to). But the tv panels are taking over, so I guess all of us will need to adapt.

 

This is something I dislike about most modern cars - such things should be on a tactile control so you can adjust them without taking your eyes off the road. Even my 15 year old Toyota annoys me here as the control to switch between normal and demist is a row of buttons, so not easy to do by touch.

[Stanley Melrose]

Well surprise, surprise, VW engineers are not superior beings, after all!  My ID.3 First Edition had some odd quirks which I reported to the dealer.  One was the Assisted Cruise Control deciding the speed limit on a local dual carriageway was 110Mph.  That was displayed on the instrument cluster in front of me.  The car accelerated to 110Kph (=68Mph) but the display definitely indicated 110Mph.  This happened 4 times so I was invited to return the car for a software update.  Amazingly, this took 8 hours and would be done overnight so the car was away for 2 days.  When collected the speed quirk had indeed been sorted but there was a niggle which was occasional display of a warning of a fault in the 12V system.  I mentioned this in an email to the dealer but carried on using the car as despite the warnings, it seemed to work OK.  Just over a week ago, I went to do our weekly click and collect from the local supermarket but was greeted by a string of error messages on the display so I abandoned using the ID.3 and went off in my wife's car.  On my return I went out armed with paper and pen to note the error messages.  No way, the car was absolutely dead.  I phoned the dealer and was asked to contact VW Assistance which I did.  An AA Patrol turned up in 25 minutes manned by a VW enthusiast who knew nothing about BEVs but wanted to see an ID.3 up close as he was thinking of getting one.  It was soon apparent that he was unable to suggest anything that might make the car drivable but we agreed that charging the auxiliary battery might be useful.  He connected his jump start kit and in 5-10 minutes it was clear that the car was coming back to life.  I suggested that I charge it fully overnight using my battery charger and he agreed so I set that up and he left.

 

Next morning the battery was fully charged so I called the dealer and told them what had happened since we spoke and was asked to bring the car in for them to fix it.  I was very reluctant to do this as if the battery lost charge while I was driving, it could be pretty serious.  Nevertheless, I decided to risk it and made it to the dealership without incident.  That was a week ago!  The dealer's service guys have been unable to trace the problem but have engaged in lengthy discussions with VW Technical Staff who claim to be working on a fix and I have been told they hope to provide this by Friday this week.  We shall see!

 

In the meantime, I have the loan of another ID.3 which so far is OK - except it shows 110Mph on the dual carriageway . . . 

 

Keep safe - I'm trying to!

[Fenman]

22 minutes ago, Stanley Melrose said:

Well surprise, surprise, VW engineers are not superior beings, after all!  

...

If it’s any consolation I was idly watching YouTube videos about the new Land Rover Defender, which has had rave reviews from almost everyone and looks very impressive. 
 

This particular US off-roader channel had bought one brand-new from the dealer, and it’s resulted in several faults and failures all requiring dealership care of a few days or weeks each time. These eventually ended when the engine was pronounced beyond repair. In a brand-new and, frankly, very expensive car.

 

I know Land Rover pretty much always finishes towards the bottom of the reliability league tables, but you’d have thought they’d make an effort to improve.

 

VW might have been so desperate to get EVs on the road as early as possible (to minimise the fines it faces for average carbon emissions across all the cars it sells in the EU) that it might have rushed the launch of the ID3. I know it’s put back the launch of the ID4 in North America, to maximise the number of cars it has available to sell in Europe. 
 

Anyway, I’m sorry for your troubles. It’s so disappointing. 
 

Paul