Formula 1 2022

[didcot]

3 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Am I being cynical to think he took one for the team?

 

That's what we thought. 

[298]

4 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

Am I being cynical to think he took one for the team?

 

 

So that team put a banker in, in case there is a flag in the final few minutes- and then causes a flag. I'd be investigating their radio for an "execute order 66" message...

 

[Andrew P]

6 hours ago, didcot said:

Dick of the day goes to Perez!

BUT, he did guarantee that MV was not suddenly topped by Lewis or George, its called TEAM WORK at Red Bull, and he's probably got a nice Bonus for his efforts.

[Hroth]

2 hours ago, 298 said:

 

So that team put a banker in, in case there is a flag in the final few minutes- and then causes a flag. I'd be investigating their radio for an "execute order 66" message...

 

 

Radio message:

 

Perez, go to Plan C.

Repeat, PLAN C....

 

[didcot]

Ferrari at it again......already!

[Hroth]

I'd forgotten they must have started by now...

 

Went over to the BBC web stream to be met by the following post

 

Quote

Back on the radio for Yuki Tsunoda and the Japanese driver is not happy. He says there is something wrong with the rear.

 

Imagining his race engineer biting back the response "its bu@@ered, old chap..."

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Hroth
"rephrasing"

[didcot]

Ferrari pit stops screw Sainz over twice!

 

Hamilton taking his frustration out on the team. George made the right tyre call! Both Mercedes nearly coming together. 

 

Crashtappen has it in the bag!

[EddieB]

5 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

Imagining his race engineer biting back the response "its bu@@ered, old chap..."

 

...so just leave it out on the circuit to force a safety car - we can’t let Mercedes win the race fairly.

[Jonboy]

Can see Mercedes overtaking Ferrari in the constructors shortly.

[Oldddudders]

28 minutes ago, Jonboy said:

Can see Mercedes overtaking Ferrari in the constructors shortly.

And George is only 13 points off Leclerc and Perez in joint second place. Consistency and having two decent drivers are the key to being there or thereabouts without winning a race.

[didcot]

45 minutes ago, Jonboy said:

Can see Mercedes overtaking Ferrari in the constructors shortly

Can but hope. Ferrari just don't seem to want to win.

[Oldddudders]

12 hours ago, Jonboy said:

Can see Mercedes overtaking Ferrari in the constructors shortly.

And George is only 13 points behind Charles & Sergio, who are in joint second place! Reliability and consistency are the keys. Merc has done very well for that this year, as well as having the strongest driver pairing.

[woodenhead]

Hamilton made a mistake at the final restart which is why he was so quickly overtaken, wrong engine mode.  It's not the first time he has made a mistake similar to this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/62787526

 

Still would have been beaten no doubt though.

[Pete the Elaner]

Another race ruined by bad rules. Rules which I've previously expressed my dissatisfaction with:

 

I don't think Perez's crash changed much in qualy, but there has been speculation that it may have been tactical. This can & should be easily be stopped if anyone causing a yellow flag was given a penalty. Anyone causing it because of an error would accept that they deserved it.

It has been over 15 years since Schumacher parked his Ferrari at Rascasse. They invented a penalty to deal with that, but should have added something to the rules to prevent it happening again. Anybody crashing in qualy deserves to be disadvantaged by doing so, therefore anyone causing a yellow flag should get a grid penalty of some sort. I am sure they would all agree about that if it was stated in advance (which it would be if it was included in the rules). That should take away any suspicion.

 

The strategies were playing out nicely until the safety cars ruined the race.

I have said many times before that allowing pit stops during safety car periods is unnecessary & ruins races. They were banned at one time, until cars ran out of fuel & because stranded on the circuit. Tyres don't suddenly fall to bits at safety car speeds. Fuel stops finished after 2012 & so should safety car pit stops.

We have seen a forced incident before when Piquet Jnr crashed deliberately so his team-mate could take advantage of a pit stop & win a race. Tsunoda's stop was suspect but if it created no benefit for others, there would be no question of even trying tactics like that.

Safety cars are supposed to have as little impact on the race as possible, not to create an opportunity to gain a tactical advantage. VSCs are said to 'neutralise the race'. How do they neutralise anything if pit stops are allowed?

A 30s penalty would stop teams gaining any advantage. If a team really needs to pit for safety reasons, then they would accept a 30s penalty anyway.

[Hobby]

4 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I have said many times before that allowing pit stops during safety car periods is unnecessary & ruins races.

 

Completely agree, if the tyres need changing then they can be done after the restart.

[Reorte]

11 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Another race ruined by bad rules. Rules which I've previously expressed my dissatisfaction with:

 

I don't think Perez's crash changed much in qualy, but there has been speculation that it may have been tactical. This can & should be easily be stopped if anyone causing a yellow flag was given a penalty. Anyone causing it because of an error would accept that they deserved it.

I've mixed feelings on that. I certainly see where you're coming from but also crashes are a fact of racing when drivers are pushing the limits, and F1 drivers should be pushing the limits. They certainly shouldn't ever be deliberately contriving stopping for tactical reasons though - that's outright cheating IMO.

 

Quote

Safety cars are supposed to have as little impact on the race as possible, not to create an opportunity to gain a tactical advantage. VSCs are said to 'neutralise the race'. How do they neutralise anything if pit stops are allowed?

I couldn't agree more with this though. The entire point of a safety car is so that incidents can be dealt with (or possibly bad conditions). The situation post safety car should be as close to the situation pre-safety car as is practically possible, no-one having lost or gained anything. The reality is that some gain and loss is inevitable (the field will close up, and that's probably safer for the cleanup crews anyway), that's an unavoidable consequence, but no more than that.

 

Anything that's there purely for safety reasons should not be used for tactical reasons, insofar as that's actually practical.

 

I had similar grumbles a while back when they were talking about the pit lane exit line rules, where it didn't feel like the reason there's a line there in the first place was part of the consideration.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Reorte

[RedgateModels]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I don't think Perez's crash changed much in qualy, but there has been speculation that it may have been tactical.

 

Hamilton said that he was up on MV's time on his last lap. The on-board camera quite clearly shows Perez turning the steering wheel in order to park the car facing the wrong way. Turning it the other way and a quick squirt of throttle would have seen him facing the right way and on his way

 

Agree this sort of thing needs to be sorted. there was far too much "hand of Marco" in yesterday's race.

 

Great drive and tactics by George though - 14 points for 2nd in the championship to go 🏎️ 

Edited September 5, 2022 by RedgateModels

[Luke123]

Reading this tread I should take out shares in a tin foil hat company 

[EddieB]

Going back to Spa and the hagiography (C4 and elsewhere) of Verstappen's mercurial slicing up through the field - can someone point out that when Jim Clark and Schumacher did similar they didn't have DRS and the turbulence reduction of the modern formula?

[EddieB]

2 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

The strategies were playing out nicely until the safety cars ruined the race.

I have said many times before that allowing pit stops during safety car periods is unnecessary & ruins races. They were banned at one time, until cars ran out of fuel & because stranded on the circuit. Tyres don't suddenly fall to bits at safety car speeds. Fuel stops finished after 2012 & so should safety car pit stops.

 

While on this subject, at the very least drivers should not be released from pit stops to change tyres while the SC procession is being routed through the pit lane.  Whilst we may be sympathetic to George Russell, it's general risk was exemplified by the unsafe release of Sainz.  If a stop is needed, the driver must be held until the entire procession has passed.

[RedgateModels]

Technically, if you cannot pass under safety car should the whole queue of cars wait until a driver has completed his stop 🤣

[Sidecar Racer]

2 hours ago, EddieB said:

can someone point out that when Jim Clark and Schumacher did similar they didn't have DRS and the turbulence reduction of the modern formula?

 

  But did the cars of that time produce the sort of turbulence of the modern ones ??

[Hobby]

Don't think so in the 60s, look at the slipstreaming that took place.

[Reorte]

47 minutes ago, Hobby said:

Don't think so in the 60s, look at the slipstreaming that took place.

Agreed, DRS only came in when it really started to become a problem.

 

It's worth noting that the amount of downforce being generated has increased over the years (obviously since Jim Clark, but even since Schumacher), so even the same amount of turbulence will cause relatively more trouble for a following car.

[Pete the Elaner]

6 hours ago, Reorte said:

I've mixed feelings on that. I certainly see where you're coming from but also crashes are a fact of racing when drivers are pushing the limits, and F1 drivers should be pushing the limits. They certainly shouldn't ever be deliberately contriving stopping for tactical reasons though - that's outright cheating IMO.

 

 

Penalising for quali crashes is an awkward one.

Schumacher's infamous park at Rascasse was penalised but it showed that if you could stop in a more subtle way, you could use this to your advantage.

A little under 10 years later, Rosberg set a provisional pole then out-braked himself to cause a yellow flag, which protected his pole. Whether this was intentional was debateable, so the stewards took no action. Deliberate or not, this was a reminder that it was possible to ruin other's qualy by forcing a safety car.

Last year, Leclerc crashed after holding provisional pole. Verstappen was on a really fast lap & looked likely to beat it. This left Leclerc on pole position. I believe he was just pushing too hard but he benefitted from his own mistake. A mistake should never be beneficial. Justice was sort of done because he had damaged something & failed to start.

At Monaco this year, Perez spun & was hit by Sainz who was too close to avoid him. Again, this stopped Verstappen from potentially setting a pole lap. Who ended up winning the race? Perez. If he had not caused the red flag, he would probably never been in a position to win the race.

 

Would it be wrong to penalise someone for making a genuine mistake which affects somebody else's qualy? I don't think so.

It it wrong to do nothing at all knowing that a loophole is there & can be exploited? Yes. It is wrong to just accept it.