Formula 1 2022

[jjb1970]

I'll be the odd one out here. Drivers are employees and have elected to sell their services to teams who are part of a circus which has accepted an awful lot of money to stage races in certain locations. If they don't like it fine, but any employer has certain requirements when employees represent them, including not wilfully offending customers and undermining their employers business interests. A person like Lewis Hamilton doesn't need the money (unlike most of the team employees who are just regular working people), he could easily leave F1 and go and race in another discipline if he feels strongly about it. If he elects to stay that's fine and I don't blame him for that but in that case I think he should accept the conditions that go with it. And I'm reminded of the old adage that if you're going to point to someone else's dirty washing you better be sure your own is squeeky clean (with reference to naming and shaming other countries).

[Reorte]

5 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

...And I'm reminded of the old adage that if you're going to point to someone else's dirty washing you better be sure your own is squeeky clean (with reference to naming and shaming other countries).

I've never liked that sentiment much. It generally feels like it's used to deflect or dismiss genuine, needed criticism, because no-one is squeaky clean. But if you're much worse then it's a useful tool to lash back at rather than pay attention to your  own issues (plus it's especially absurd if the dirty laundry is so old no-one involved is still alive anyway).

[jjb1970]

20 minutes ago, Reorte said:

I've never liked that sentiment much. It generally feels like it's used to deflect or dismiss genuine, needed criticism, because no-one is squeaky clean. But if you're much worse then it's a useful tool to lash back at rather than pay attention to your  own issues (plus it's especially absurd if the dirty laundry is so old no-one involved is still alive anyway).

 

We're not talking about ancient history. If you talk to people in the Middle East they have a very different view of the collective role of what we might call 'the west' in their region and North Africa and Central Asia. I don't necessarily agree with all of that sentiment but they do have a point with much of the criticism. 

[Reorte]

7 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

 

We're not talking about ancient history. If you talk to people in the Middle East they have a very different view of the collective role of what we might call 'the west' in their region and North Africa and Central Asia. I don't necessarily agree with all of that sentiment but they do have a point with much of the criticism. 

The ancient history bit was only one part of it, I wasn't suggesting it was the only one.

 

They've got a point with their own criticism, yes, but they all too often just use it as an excuse to deflect very justified criticisms of themselves.

[woodenhead]

53 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

I'll be the odd one out here. Drivers are employees and have elected to sell their services to teams who are part of a circus which has accepted an awful lot of money to stage races in certain locations. If they don't like it fine, but any employer has certain requirements when employees represent them, including not wilfully offending customers and undermining their employers business interests. A person like Lewis Hamilton doesn't need the money (unlike most of the team employees who are just regular working people), he could easily leave F1 and go and race in another discipline if he feels strongly about it. If he elects to stay that's fine and I don't blame him for that but in that case I think he should accept the conditions that go with it. And I'm reminded of the old adage that if you're going to point to someone else's dirty washing you better be sure your own is squeeky clean (with reference to naming and shaming other countries).

 

46 minutes ago, Reorte said:

I've never liked that sentiment much. It generally feels like it's used to deflect or dismiss genuine, needed criticism, because no-one is squeaky clean. But if you're much worse then it's a useful tool to lash back at rather than pay attention to your  own issues (plus it's especially absurd if the dirty laundry is so old no-one involved is still alive anyway).

Drivers are not employees - they are sub contractors to the F1 team.

 

It's probably why the drivers will make statements but the teams are much more muted in how they deal with the same issue, i.e. they are more contractually impacted through their relationship with the FIA.

 

It's a fair point about dirty washing, I think that Vettell was finding it more and more difficult to justify his ethical positions on climate whilst driving a race car fueled by oil whilst flying all around the world in a circus.  There has been an interesting comparison to this regarding Joe Lycett and his opposition to David Beckham being a Qatar representative for the World Cup whilst he himself has earned money from the Middle East doing concerts.  It is very difficult to find the balance, sports personalities, in fact personalities in general should be allowed to voice their personal opinions on matters that they feel merits attention and even in the UK the Government takes a dim view to any employee of the BBC showing an allegiance to political matters that are not shared by the Government.

 

I've read today that F1 drivers may be banned from showing religous expression, e.g. crossing yourself before a race.  It does feel that the F1 management/FIA are really cracking down on freedom of expression and I cannot see how anyone can think that is a good thing.

[OnTheBranchline]

44 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

 

Drivers are not employees - they are sub contractors to the F1 team.

 

It's probably why the drivers will make statements but the teams are much more muted in how they deal with the same issue, i.e. they are more contractually impacted through their relationship with the FIA.

 

It's a fair point about dirty washing, I think that Vettell was finding it more and more difficult to justify his ethical positions on climate whilst driving a race car fueled by oil whilst flying all around the world in a circus.  There has been an interesting comparison to this regarding Joe Lycett and his opposition to David Beckham being a Qatar representative for the World Cup whilst he himself has earned money from the Middle East doing concerts.  It is very difficult to find the balance, sports personalities, in fact personalities in general should be allowed to voice their personal opinions on matters that they feel merits attention and even in the UK the Government takes a dim view to any employee of the BBC showing an allegiance to political matters that are not shared by the Government.

 

I've read today that F1 drivers may be banned from showing religous expression, e.g. crossing yourself before a race.  It does feel that the F1 management/FIA are really cracking down on freedom of expression and I cannot see how anyone can think that is a good thing.

 

So the answer is 'whataboutism'?

Edited December 21, 2022 by OnTheBranchline

[OnTheBranchline]

 

Shameful that Vogue Magazine couldn't have picked an actual female driver (like Jamie Chadwick) rather than a model who happens to be born into a motorsport family.

[didcot]

Kelly Piquet, one time partner to Danii Kvyat and had a daughter with him. Kvyat's replacement in her affections and Red Bull is Crashtappen. 

A bit like Michael Schumacher who hooked up with team mate Karl Wendlingers girlfriend Corrine.

[Pete the Elaner]

56 minutes ago, didcot said:

Kelly Piquet, one time partner to Danii Kvyat and had a daughter with him. Kvyat's replacement in her affections and Red Bull is Crashtappen. 

A bit like Michael Schumacher who hooked up with team mate Karl Wendlingers girlfriend Corrine.

 

Schumacher's wife is Heinz-Harald Frentzen's ex-GF, not Karl Wendlinger's.

[ess1uk]

Since I can’t get into wheel tappers could you please post a link to 2023 here?

[woodenhead]

9 minutes ago, ess1uk said:

Since I can’t get into wheel tappers could you please post a link to 2023 here?

Eh?

 

you’re in Wheeltappers now

[PhilJ W]

50 minutes ago, ess1uk said:

Since I can’t get into wheel tappers could you please post a link to 2023 here?

No ones opened a thread for 2023 yet.

[Hroth]

Are we competing for pole position in the "Last post before 2023" race?

 

The loonies are setting off fireworks at present and there's 165 minutes to go...

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Hroth
Tonight, K and L are fighting it out for position....

[ess1uk]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

Eh?

 

you’re in Wheeltappers now

Nope

i followed the link from content I posted in.

I can’t open wheeltappers (among many others)

I should be able to follow a link if posted here

[woodenhead]

But why are you blocked from Wheeltappers?

[ess1uk]

7 hours ago, woodenhead said:

But why are you blocked from Wheeltappers?

Why indeed?

me and many others

its not just wheeltappers either