Formula 1 2022

[Reorte]

Back to the aero issue, I've a vague recollection of concerns of the opposite being true in the past - too much mechanical grip, hence the grooved tyres that F1 had for a time. Was that just concern about overall speeds (although they've gone up anyway)? I can't think how it could've affected racing, the slipstream was still there on the straights.

[RJS1977]

7 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Tyres don't suddenly fall to bits at safety car speeds.

 

They might if there are shards of carbonfibre on the track.

 

Also, in the mid-stages of the race, there are always likely to be some drivers who are marginal on tyres at a given time. An extra 5 or 6 laps albeit at a reduced speed behind the safety car could be a few laps too many.

[Reorte]

44 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

 

They might if there are shards of carbonfibre on the track.

 

Also, in the mid-stages of the race, there are always likely to be some drivers who are marginal on tyres at a given time. An extra 5 or 6 laps albeit at a reduced speed behind the safety car could be a few laps too many.

Perhaps making it so you can pit under the safety car but have to rejoin in last?

[Pete the Elaner]

13 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

They might if there are shards of carbonfibre on the track.

 

Also, in the mid-stages of the race, there are always likely to be some drivers who are marginal on tyres at a given time. An extra 5 or 6 laps albeit at a reduced speed behind the safety car could be a few laps too many.

 

If they genuinely need to pit then they would accept 20 seconds of the car sitting there before they can touch it, or a later 10 second stop/go penalty. The difference in tyre wear between running at racing speed & behind the safety car is huge. If they were marginal on tyres from a safety point of view, then they should have stopped long before the SC before their pace dropped off.

[Bill Radford]

16 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

Penalising for quali crashes is an awkward one.

Schumacher's infamous park at Rascasse was penalised but it showed that if you could stop in a more subtle way, you could use this to your advantage.

A little under 10 years later, Rosberg set a provisional pole then out-braked himself to cause a yellow flag, which protected his pole. Whether this was intentional was debateable, so the stewards took no action. Deliberate or not, this was a reminder that it was possible to ruin other's qualy by forcing a safety car.

Last year, Leclerc crashed after holding provisional pole. Verstappen was on a really fast lap & looked likely to beat it. This left Leclerc on pole position. I believe he was just pushing too hard but he benefitted from his own mistake. A mistake should never be beneficial. Justice was sort of done because he had damaged something & failed to start.

At Monaco this year, Perez spun & was hit by Sainz who was too close to avoid him. Again, this stopped Verstappen from potentially setting a pole lap. Who ended up winning the race? Perez. If he had not caused the red flag, he would probably never been in a position to win the race.

 

Would it be wrong to penalise someone for making a genuine mistake which affects somebody else's qualy? I don't think so.

It it wrong to do nothing at all knowing that a loophole is there & can be exploited? Yes. It is wrong to just accept it.

 

In the BTCC if you cause a red flag in quali you loose your fastest time.

[Dunsignalling]

Easy. Make the rule that you can go into the pits while the Safety Car (or VSC) is in operation, but you can't come out again until it has been withdrawn. 

 

John

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, Bill Radford said:

 

In the BTCC if you cause a red flag in quali you loose your fastest time.

 

A yellow flag is just as damaging to somebody else's lap time but there is clearly a loophole as exposed by Schumacher. That was over 15 years ago & still no attempt has been made to sort it.

The ideas mentioned on here may need a little adjustment, but they are a starting point. Rules should be there to create fairness but some of them are very unfair. Not all of them can be made perfect but with a little thought, they can be a lot better than they are now.

[EddieB]

I don't see how it can always be "fair".

 

It's one thing to penalise the driver responsible for bringing out a red/yellow flag during qualifying, another to fairly compensate drivers who may lose out as a result.  (Which is why putting in an early "banker" lap is recognised as suitable insurance during qualifying).

 

Obviously the same applies during the race itself, where an infringement may be punished by a time penalty, but if an innocent party has had their race ended or compromised, they still lose out - it's called "racing".

 

 

[Pete the Elaner]

2 minutes ago, EddieB said:

I don't see how it can always be "fair".

 

It's one thing to penalise the driver responsible for bringing out a red/yellow flag during qualifying, another to fairly compensate drivers who may lose out as a result.  (Which is why putting in an early "banker" lap is recognised as suitable insurance during qualifying).

 

Obviously the same applies during the race itself, where an infringement may be punished by a time penalty, but if an innocent party has had their race ended or compromised, they still lose out - it's called "racing".

 

 

 

Rules will never be perfect but they don't even bother trying to improve ones which are quite clearly rubbish.

[Sidecar Racer]

 Like the unsafe pit release , the driver gets the penalty ,he is'nt in charge of the stop/go light ,

so should it be a team penalty  and dock team points or a fine or both ?

[Pete the Elaner]

6 hours ago, Sidecar Racer said:

 Like the unsafe pit release , the driver gets the penalty ,he is'nt in charge of the stop/go light ,

so should it be a team penalty  and dock team points or a fine or both ?

 

What did Sainz get for his unsafe release on Sunday? 5 seconds? A fast car can easily make that gap in a few laps but passing a car (which they blocked due to the unsafe release) may be another matter.

The penalties for unsafe release do not seem to be working so the rule/penalty for it needs to be looked at.

[Obi-Jiff Kenobi]

Points penalties could be used as an alternative. As a bonus, if it’s clearly a transgression by the driver (i.e. causing a collision, weaving in the braking area), deduct points from the drivers’ championship. If it’s the fault of the team (unsafe release, tyres not correctly fitted etc) deduct points from the teams’ championship. That would also allow penalties to be overturned in the light of new evidence, which is something that can’t be done with in-race time/stop-go penalties.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Obi-Jiff Kenobi
Edited to add more stuff!

[RJS1977]

Unfortunately that could be a minefield in itself:

 

* Drivers towards the back of the grid might not get any points deducted because they wouldn't have any to deduct (or would they be on minus points?)

* Unless the points penalty was graded, a penalty applied to a leading driver would have less effect than if applied to a mid-field driver.

* Whilst unsafe release is a team fault, a driver can still gain an advantage through it, so should be penalised. Similarly technical infringements such as non-spec fuel could have caused the driver to gain an advantage.

* If a driver gained a place by an unsafe release, or held on to a place by weaving, this disadvantages another driver. A time penalty might allow the disadvantaged driver to regain the place, but a points penalty would not.

 

 

[Jonboy]

Personally still an advocate for scrapping q1, q2 and q3 format in favour of drawing names out of a hat and then each driver getting a single hot lap for qualifying…(for drivers that don’t finish the lap it could be decided on distance travelled…)

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, Jonboy said:

Personally still an advocate for scrapping q1, q2 and q3 format in favour of drawing names out of a hat and then each driver getting a single hot lap for qualifying…(for drivers that don’t finish the lap it could be decided on distance travelled…)

 

Corrected it for you! ;)

[Hobby]

https://formula1news.co.uk/christian-horner-set-for-the-sack-as-porsche-deal-stalls/

 

Next job as C4 pundit? :)

[RJS1977]

As the article suggests that he could be replaced by the current manager of the McLaren team, I would suggest a straight swap would be a possibility, with CH going to McLaren.

 

 

[didcot]

One word...karma!

[didcot]

2 hours ago, Hobby said:

Next job as C4 pundit? :)

Spice Girls manager!

[Oldddudders]

I was also intrigued to read that Merc is being bought out by Maserati, so Toto is off to do something different. Who knew?

[didcot]

Would Maseratti have the funds? 

[Andrew P]

4 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I was also intrigued to read that Merc is being bought out by Maserati, so Toto is off to do something different. Who knew?

NEWS FLASH = JUST IN = Alonso to Maserati, for a better Company Car and another Race suit for his collection.😆

[newbryford]

3 hours ago, Hobby said:

https://formula1news.co.uk/christian-horner-set-for-the-sack-as-porsche-deal-stalls/

 

Next job as C4 pundit? :)

 

That would be interesting.

If he was sacked by RB, I wonder how that would effect C4's pro-RB love-in currently via DC and MW?

[RJS1977]

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

I was also intrigued to read that Merc is being bought out by Maserati, so Toto is off to do something different. Who knew?

 

I think it's just the FE team that's being bought out, not F1.

[Obi-Jiff Kenobi]

8 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

That would be interesting.

If he was sacked by RB, I wonder how that would effect C4's pro-RB love-in currently via DC and MW?

Mr Webber drove and won for Porsche in endurance racing after leaving F1, so if Horner leaving led to Porsche allying with, or taking over, Red Bull MW would probably be fine with it. In fact, Webber might become even more of a fan, as reading between the lines in his autobiography there is not a lot of love lost between him and Horner, due to the latter’s favouring of Vettel. MW got on much better with RB owner Mateschitz.