Secondhand prices and description accuracy

[Dzine]

Hi Folks, I'm a bit old in the tooth now and you get to that age where you've just about got everything and the railway stuff you want is so specialised that family and friends have little or no chance of identifying the bits you want/need, unless there's a massive overacted hint!  Due to ongoing ill health I still haven't spent last years birthday money, so what with that and Christmas it's amounting to quite a bit and a bit of retail therapy works great at such times.  Now, I've made a couple of purchases from, well you know where, and they're from reputable dealers, you get a feel for the good ones, it's in the description and the words used and what I'm about to say has no bearing on those folks who were given outstanding Feedback.  There's a but coming and it relates to all the toads I had to look at before finding a prince.  Overly high prices are often a giveaway, and photo's of dross that are fit only for the bin are just as bad and it's not just the fly-by-nights but some of the mainstream, so called good guys!  So when, referring to a loco, it only says, "tested", what does that mean; it goes one way, both ways, it's as noisy as hell or quiet as a mouse.  What about, put it on a track with five coaches and see out fairs, specific things that we can measure, show us the wheels up close and personal, muck, pits and all and beware of any seller who won't take returns. It doesn't matter how good the deal looks, I won't touch em, if your products great they should fly off the shelf and you should be prepared to take it back if something is wrong.  Now I could go on and on, you're probably saying that already, but it's been bugging me for a while.  Surely I'm not the only one?   

Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

Kind regards and a belated Happy New Year, Paul

[PMP]

Buying from the likes of eBay/Facebook/Gumtree etc is always going to carry a risk. You certainly won’t be able to enforce any standards in terms of running qualities, descriptions or photo imagery. 
 

If I use them and similar, I accept that what I get might not be as described, and bid accordingly. Overall I’ve not had any issues with sellers, just a couple from buyers. I’ve bought from a couple of the big retailers eBay pages, and have not had any problems. With them you frequently get good imagery. As far as running qualities go, that’s down to individual interpretation, I’ve known people quite happy with buying (over a counter) a loco with poorly quartered wheelsets just because they want it so much.

 

Buy with your eyes open, I don’t accept returns, however I don’t sell poor quality stuff. If it has an issue I describe it as such, so there’s no misunderstanding on the buyers behalf.

[HonestTom]

I've never been ripped off by eBay. I have received with issues that I didn't anticipate, but that's always been because I wasn't careful enough looking at the photos and description - that's on me. I avoid stuff with a poor description, poor photos or a seller who obviously doesn't really know what they're selling, and most sellers will answer your questions.  If they don't, I don't bid. But to be honest, I prefer to get my models in person from a model shop or swapmeet, just because you can sort everything out there and then.

[JohnR]

I've just had my first, if not rip-off, at least a disappointment.

 

Bought a Triang-Hornby loco (nostalgia reasons, more than anything), described as "Serviced this class 37 runs like a new locomotive, smoothly and swiftly in both directions and at all speeds" - yet when I got it I had to adjust some loose wiring to the motor, and it runs very noisily, and only at the high end of the voltage range. I dont recall that when they were new (though that was 45 years ago). 

[Hroth]

A topic that's a constant theme on the ebay madness thread, even reputable vendors have their moments so its important to keep your wits about you.  At least the "L@@k RARE", high price operators tend to shoot themselves in the foot, as do the ones who provide blurry photos, curiously vague descriptions or even manufacturers images for more recent models than the one being advertised!

 

As they say, Buyer Beware!

 

 

[ejstubbs]

On 05/01/2022 at 13:45, Dzine said:

So when, referring to a loco, it only says, "tested", what does that mean; it goes one way, both ways, it's as noisy as hell or quiet as a mouse.  What about, put it on a track with five coaches and see out fairs, specific things that we can measure, show us the wheels up close and personal, muck, pits and all and beware of any seller who won't take returns.

 

There's nothing to stop you asking such questions of the seller directly - there's a "Contact seller" link on every listing for just this sort of purpose.  Sellers who don't respond to queries don't tend to get my business.

 

On 05/01/2022 at 13:45, Dzine said:

It doesn't matter how good the deal looks, I won't touch em, if your products great they should fly off the shelf and you should be prepared to take it back if something is wrong.

 

Nothing in an eBay listing can affect a purchaser's statutory rights, in particular the right for a refund or replacement if the item supplied is faulty (unless it was described as such and offered as "spare or repair") or has been mis-described.  Both of these options are listed as valid return reasons if you initiate the return process through eBay, and eBay is generally good at enforcing such return requests.

 

All that "No returns accepted" on a listing means is that the seller won't accept returns if the buyer simply changes their mind - though I believe that commercial sellers have to follow the consumer contracts regulations for remote selling in all cases, which means that buyers have 14 days to change their minds (but they can be required to pay the return postage).  AFAIK (and I'm willing to be corrected) those regulations don't apply to private sellers.

 

Basically, my approach to eBay is very similar to @HonestTom's, and I can't recall ever having had a disappointing transaction that didn't get resolved in a satisfactory way.

[SteveyDee68]

I am in agreement with @Dzine regarding listing descriptions etc, even from the “Big Boys”

 

I recently emailed a certain Sheffield based retailer directly regarding one of their eBay items having what I felt was a deliberately vague (verging on misleading) description, together with a highly over valued price.

 

I have also contacted some obviously non-modelling sellers to assist them correct or improve their listings, and those people have all been polite and grateful for the assistance - one wrote to thank me because she had had no interest in any of her items but after following my advice sold them all within a week!

 

However, there are some real “chancers” out there - the eBay madness thread is an amusing depository of some of the better (worst?) examples of overpricing and/or poor descriptions.

 

Personally, I have been caught out a few times now - twice with wagons, and once with a loco. I have learnt to ask *specific* questions via the Ask Seller option, even to the point of providing them with multiple choice answers in order to get written clarification. That way, if the item does not match what they have specifically said, then it is going to be rejected.

 

Any seller who is vague or doesn’t reply does not get a bid, no matter how tempting the item!

 

Lastly, in my opinion, prices seem to have risen considerably since lockdown and far more instances of chancers trying it on!

 

Cheers

 

Steve S

[JDW]

On 06/01/2022 at 11:29, JohnR said:

I've just had my first, if not rip-off, at least a disappointment.

 

Bought a Triang-Hornby loco (nostalgia reasons, more than anything), described as "Serviced this class 37 runs like a new locomotive, smoothly and swiftly in both directions and at all speeds" - yet when I got it I had to adjust some loose wiring to the motor, and it runs very noisily, and only at the high end of the voltage range. I dont recall that when they were new (though that was 45 years ago). 

 

Clearly, you read that as "[Having been] serviced, this class 37 [now] runs like a new locomotive..." when what the seller meant was "[If fully] serviced, this [type of] class 37 [model] runs like a new locomotive..." 

[Steamport Southport]

On 06/01/2022 at 16:43, ejstubbs said:

 

There's nothing to stop you asking such questions of the seller directly - there's a "Contact seller" link on every listing for just this sort of purpose.  Sellers who don't respond to queries don't tend to get my business.

 

 

Nothing in an eBay listing can affect a purchaser's statutory rights, in particular the right for a refund or replacement if the item supplied is faulty (unless it was described as such and offered as "spare or repair") or has been mis-described.  Both of these options are listed as valid return reasons if you initiate the return process through eBay, and eBay is generally good at enforcing such return requests.

 

All that "No returns accepted" on a listing means is that the seller won't accept returns if the buyer simply changes their mind - though I believe that commercial sellers have to follow the consumer contracts regulations for remote selling in all cases, which means that buyers have 14 days to change their minds (but they can be required to pay the return postage).  AFAIK (and I'm willing to be corrected) those regulations don't apply to private sellers.

 

Basically, my approach to eBay is very similar to @HonestTom's, and I can't recall ever having had a disappointing transaction that didn't get resolved in a satisfactory way.

 

They do.

 

It's different buying stuff from a bloke down the boozer. But eBay is classed as a "market place" so retail law applies just as it would if you bought an item at your local market. You can't put "No returns" or "No refunds" on an eBay listing.

 

Any problems get in touch with eBay themselves. 

 

 

Jason

[Dzine]

5 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

I am in agreement with @Dzine regarding listing descriptions etc, even from the “Big Boys”

 

I recently emailed a certain Sheffield based retailer directly regarding one of their eBay items having what I felt was a deliberately vague (verging on misleading) description, together with a highly over valued price.

 

I have also contacted some obviously non-modelling sellers to assist them correct or improve their listings, and those people have all been polite and grateful for the assistance - one wrote to thank me because she had had no interest in any of her items but after following my advice sold them all within a week!

 

However, there are some real “chancers” out there - the eBay madness thread is an amusing depository of some of the better (worst?) examples of overpricing and/or poor descriptions.

 

Personally, I have been caught out a few times now - twice with wagons, and once with a loco. I have learnt to ask *specific* questions via the Ask Seller option, even to the point of providing them with multiple choice answers in order to get written clarification. That way, if the item does not match what they have specifically said, then it is going to be rejected.

 

Any seller who is vague or doesn’t reply does not get a bid, no matter how tempting the item!

 

Lastly, in my opinion, prices seem to have risen considerably since lockdown and far more instances of chancers trying it on!

 

Cheers

 

Steve S

Exactly Steve, just what I meant and you were brave enough to mention, or at least hint at, one particular well-known retailer.  I feel sure there are many more modellers out there who feel just the same, though I'm glad you received a great response from at least one Ebay seller, which just goes to show how people can be encouraged to do the right thing. Take note PMP!! (in earlier post)

[SteveyDee68]

7 hours ago, JDW said:

 

Clearly, you read that as "[Having been] serviced, this class 37 [now] runs like a new locomotive..." when what the seller meant was "[If fully] serviced, this [type of] class 37 [model] runs like a new locomotive..." 

 

And that is the kind of “shady” sales speak that also annoys me - sufficiently vague to allow the seller wiggle room from accusations of false selling.

 

Which is why I use the direct question which, if responded to, puts it in writing exactly what the seller means.

 

My absolute favourite is when something does not mention at all how the loco runs. So I ask. And then get told that they have no means of testing. Which is when I paste in the ready prepared instructions I have done about using a 9V square battery! In other words, no excuse now to not be able to give some kind of answer.

 

Quite a few sellers have then been able

to respond, often thanking me for the tip. I might not buy the item, but I do keep an eye upon it - and upon the sellers, too! If they post up another “untested” loco description, they get a message reminding them that I had told them how to do it before!

 

Believe me, when I can’t sleep at night, eBay becomes the place I haunt! 
 

Of course, the ones that don’t respond are the ones who I immediately note down as being “dodgy” in my opinion. And like the control freak I am, I started keeping a little list of them for future reference!

 

Note to self : 2022 - get a social life!

 

HOURS OF EBAY VIGILANTE FUN!

[Dzine]

Hi Steve, Perhaps we should ask eBay to take you on as an administrator/vigilante for all model railway sales!!!!!  Seriously though, back to those wonderful layouts of yours, generate as much time as you can there.  As always thanks for your support, if change is to come about it's often at grass roots where it starts, well done you.  Kind regards Paul

Edited January 8, 2022 by Dzine
repeated two words

[kevinlms]

On 07/01/2022 at 01:29, Hroth said:

At least the "L@@k RARE", high price operators tend to shoot themselves in the foot, as do the ones who provide blurry photos, curiously vague descriptions

Yes, but there is a significant difference between those selling goods for a deceased family member/friend, that has no idea on what they are selling and those deliberately vague, because they DO KNOW exactly what they are selling.

Something that purchased as part of a job lot 20 years earlier, taken apart and couldn't fix, so left in a box for years and now some key parts have gone AWOL. Such items should be listed at a very low starting price, with basic information, advising that it is unknown if complete or it works. If anyone complains about that, then they are clearly 'Taking the Michael'.

[rob D2]

First thing I look at is feedback.

second thing is tone of advert - if it’s obviously a bad repaint but listed as “ good repaint “ that sort of thing - dishonesty already apparent .

 

I agree a bit about the retailer - I was interested in a model with a bit missing but they couldn’t even be arsed to answer my question about the missing bit properly - either too busy or some staff with no knowledge of the product 

[Dzine]

Hi Folks, got an article coming up later in the year and will put down some thoughts/recommendations for the uninitiated.  Regards Paul