Hornby APT-P 1980’s General Discussion Including HST Style Repaint

[RedgateModels]

I’ll start this with some observations I’ve made while cutting and shutting cars to make intermediate ones that were not made by Hornby.

 

Here’s a thing, it seems like the DTS and TBF’s were designed by different teams. There are key differences predominantly between the way the top mouldings are constructed which also impacts on the seating units.

 

The DTS is much more flimsy compared to the TBF - ribs behind the window strips have no reinforcement running into the roof and not all of them are continuous top to bottom, unlike the DTS. This means that the seating cannot be swapped from one to the other without cutting back the vestibule ends on the second class castings when say using a TBF top to make a TS centre car.

 

It just struck me as odd that they would be designed in this way.

 

I’m currently making a Dev coach, details on my blog starting here: 

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by RedgateModels

[roundhouse]

I did post about my APT in the new Hornby topic about a year ago but here are some of the photos.

 

It hadnt been out of its box for some decades after being stored in the loft. It now resides in the shed where the temperature is not so harsh.

 

I fitted some old decoders that I had lying around to both the motor and to each cab to work LED head and tail lights

 

A short video of it in action on the High Line test circuit.

 

I do have a few spare coaches somewhere . When I find them I may well do the cut and shut for an intermediate coach.

[RedgateModels]

Looks good doesn’t it

 

wish I had a test track like that to run mine. I now have a TRBS, TF and the Dev coach, so an 8 car set so far. When I can get hold of a pair of DTS cheap I’ll make a TS.

 

Oh, and there’s this

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by RedgateModels

[RedgateModels]

Just bought some more spares from eBay, two DTS’ to make a TS someday. There’s an ndm shell and a few other bits and bobs. One DTS is missing its half bogie but I have a spare waiting

 

There’s various bits and bobs of cut and shuts in my modelling blog, but here’s a few pics of what I have so far

 

 

 

dev coach

 

 

 

TF - this one has moved on since, windows have been fitted etc

 

 

 

TRBS, did this about 2 years ago I think

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by RedgateModels

[Peter749]

Did you swap the Wheelsets and if so what have you used?

 

Thanks

 

Peter

[RedgateModels]

Just now, Peter749 said:

Did you swap the Wheelsets and if so what have you used?

 

Thanks

 

Peter

still using the stock ones. I do have loads of the wheels from the driving ends though which are better than the others. I might swap them out

[Peter749]

Thanks.

 

Peter

[RedgateModels]

Oh and the TRBS has an interior now thanks to Leadley Kits

 

[RedgateModels]

So,

 

call me mad, but Rapido's recent application of Intercity Blue/Grey on their APT-E has got me thinking  - what about the APT-P?

 

Not withstanding a lot of masking as the P was designed with the join lines where the Intercity Exec livery changes colour - different to any B/G scheme, I have two things to ponder;

 

1. The switch from yellow/blue to blue/grey would happen pretty soon after the driving cab, but what about the power cars? should I switch back to grey/blue? This works better in my mind as then the BR logo/Intercity APT would be in white on blue - very corporate BR (and available from Fox)
2. When BR applied the APT version of Exec livery they departed from the HST style by having light grey underframes and roofs not black. So in my mad world would the underframes and maybe roofs be Rail Blue or stick to black (like wot Rapido did with the E-Train) ????

You know I will end up picking up a battered old set and have to get the paints out .....

Edited April 28, 2022 by RedgateModels

[RedgateModels]

As an update on this, I've secured a very cheap, if battered set so as soon as it arrives I'll be looking to get some paint.

 

Still not sure about the details of the colour scheme. IF I switch the blue/grey back to grey/blue/grey for the power car then the set will have to have black roofs (and underframes), can't see it working with a grey roof on the power car and blue on the rest .... My main driver for doing the power cars with a central blue stripe is that the Fox white transfers will work - Getting some black versions might be tricky!

 

The diagonals on the DTS's won't work as per the HST either, the grilles were made to follow the slanted stripes on the sides which go the opposite way to the slants on the stripes of a HST.

 

I've got a few spare bits from making centre coaches so will do a couple of mock ups so I can decide.....

[RedgateModels]

Well, after examining the set all I can say is it's a good job I'm repainting it LOL. Someone has put some effort into painting the interiors though. Might keep them, or might dump them in paint stripper ...

 

Anyway, paints ordered from Gaugemaster and where is that Tamiya tape ......

[RedgateModels]

 

Excellent service from Gaugemaster 😀

[RedgateModels]

OK,

 

done some mock-ups in Paint - thanks to APT.com for the original images

 

 

1 - following the original APT angles etc but with HST colours. Centre grey carried through to the power car

2 - as above but blue/grey reversed at the power car/TBF end

3 - Cab end colours angled as per HST, blue/grey reversed at power car

4 - As above with centre grey carried through to power car

 

Thoughts? I'm leaning towards 2 at the moment

 

 

[Pete the Elaner]

2 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

OK,

 

done some mock-ups in Paint - thanks to APT.com for the original images

 

 

1 - following the original APT angles etc but with HST colours. Centre grey carried through to the power car

2 - as above but blue/grey reversed at the power car/TBF end

3 - Cab end colours angled as per HST, blue/grey reversed at power car

4 - As above with centre grey carried through to power car

 

Thoughts? I'm leaning towards 2 at the moment

 

 

 

I'm with you.

Grey was for passenger carrying portions & also the guards area, so blue makes sense for the NDMs, so 2 & 3.

The vents at the end compliment the yellow & grey angles for 1 & 2.

Another option would be to get rid of the grey lower section on the NDMs because these would effectively carry loco livery. I like the lower grey sides, but it doesn't seem consistent with anything else, or are you just trying to hide the join between body & base?

[RedgateModels]

9 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Another option would be to get rid of the grey lower section on the NDMs because these would effectively carry loco livery. I like the lower grey sides, but it doesn't seem consistent with anything else, or are you just trying to hide the join between body & base?

 

It's carrying through the same window width from the passenger compartments. In reality the blue below the windows will carry on up onto the lower edge of the window strips, making the white lining around the grey the same width as that above the windows. There will be two body joint lines in the blue section sadly, but I can live with this. There will be visible blue above and below the windows. I'll have a look to see how the power car etc looks with just blue.

[No Decorum]

19 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

OK,

 

done some mock-ups in Paint - thanks to APT.com for the original images

 

 

1 - following the original APT angles etc but with HST colours. Centre grey carried through to the power car

2 - as above but blue/grey reversed at the power car/TBF end

3 - Cab end colours angled as per HST, blue/grey reversed at power car

4 - As above with centre grey carried through to power car

 

Thoughts? I'm leaning towards 2 at the moment

 

 

I’m “leaning” towards 2 as well. Counterchanging the colours on the NDMs produces a very attractive result. I like the grey band at the bottom because I think it provides continuity. Following the APT angles suits the layout of the train better. Whilst I’m not a great fan of “what ifs”, I find 2 a very satisfying livery, Thank you for sharing.

[RedgateModels]

OK, Option 5 with an all blue NDM with added orange cant rail stripe on NDM and DTS

 

 

I've also took out all the white around the window grey bands as they were too thick and distracting.  I like it a lot 😃

 

I have a couple of spare NDM shells, so could do both!

Edited August 3, 2022 by RedgateModels

[RedgateModels]

One more thing to consider - InterCityAPT in black on the front as per black window variant or not? I'm thinking not as the HST did not have InterCity125 on the front .....

[RedgateModels]

so, 5 cars together for the full effect ....

 

 

Still like option 5 best 😃 (thanks Pete)

Edited August 3, 2022 by RedgateModels

[No Decorum]

23 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

so, 5 cars together for the full effect ....

 

 

Still like option 5 best 😃 (thanks Pete)

For the little it’s worth, I still prefer 2 but perhaps with the cantrail stripe added, though 5 is not bad at all. One suggestion, if I may. What about changing the slope of the blue-grey divide on the coach to the right of the NDM to match the slope of the divide on the nose on the right-hand end? \\ // Instead of \\\ /, if you follow me.

[RedgateModels]

6 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

For the little it’s worth, I still prefer 2 but perhaps with the cantrail stripe added, though 5 is not bad at all. One suggestion, if I may. What about changing the slope of the blue-grey divide on the coach to the right of the NDM to match the slope of the divide on the nose on the right-hand end? \\ // Instead of \\\ /, if you follow me.

 

Basically that's how the real APT livery works and on the Hornby version the window strips are separate so the grey diagonal is part of the shell moulding. It would look terrible with a blue band going left to right over the plastic going right to left.

 

https://www.apt-p.com/APTConfigurations.htm

Edited August 3, 2022 by RedgateModels

[HExpressD]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say I like one of the completely different colour NDM versions, option 1. I think regardless of the minor differences any will look pretty tidy. 

[StuAllen]

Really good, I like option 5 - it needs a BR double arrow. Wonder what 2 would look like if the NDM and coach ends had a yellow lower stripe rather than grey.

[RedgateModels]

48 minutes ago, StuAllen said:

Really good, I like option 5 - it needs a BR double arrow. Wonder what 2 would look like if the NDM and coach ends had a yellow lower stripe rather than grey.

 

Arrow of indecision goes the other side. I'd drop both logos on each side but you only get 1 set with the Fox sheet 😉 (obviously on the real thing there would be 2 power cars so the BR logo would be visible both sides)

 

As for the yellow stripe, someone on Facebook suggested the same .... (it would be yellow over the body join though, so would be obvious)

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by RedgateModels

[RedgateModels]

I think we have a final 4