OO Gauge GWR Toplight Mainline & City Coaches announced

[Rugd1022]

14 hours ago, No Decorum said:

I got a Dapol Terrier in 0, although I only have a yard of track to run it on. I have to say the bigger scale is most impressive and, thanks to Dapol, not wildly expensive. However, I can’t imagine ever leaving 00 because of the vast range of stuff available and already acquired. How about an 0 scale plank for fun and 00 for the rest?

 

Never lend a book! I’m sure you’ve realised that now. People never seem to think of returning them, I don’t know why.

 

I like the idea of doing both, I have room to do planks / dioramas in both gauges but not enough for a decent layout. Doesn't stop me oggling stuff in 00 though, far from it! In 0 gauge Dapol's 08, Pannier, 14xx and autocoach, Heljan's D8xx Warship, Hymek, 61xx and Mogul, Lionheart's 45xx, Minerva's D94xx, Pannier and Siphon G and the various Slaters parcels van kits have all got my attention, just as much as these new Toplights etc have.

 

Apologies for the thread drift but, er, you know how it is... 😉

[GeoffBird]

On 27/07/2023 at 16:40, Mitch91 said:

 

One of September or October according to the email I've just received from Hattons.

 

 

The latest e-mail  today from Rails says "August/September" delivery from Dapol

[gwrrob]

I see Dapol are having their stand at the Stafford show next month , which will give me the chance to ask Richard @coeurdelyon about them.

[rovex]

Rails have just emailed to say due September/October 

[The Johnster]

Yay!

[gwrrob]

Talking to Neil at Stafford and these are on the boat , all liveries, expected in shops in 8-10 weeks .

 

As soon as these go on sale the corridor versions work will start.

[Ian Hargrave]

1 minute ago, gwrrob said:

Talking to Neil at Stafford and these are on the boat , all liveries, expected in shops in 8-10 weeks .

 

As soon as these go on sale the corridor versions work will start.

Good you got to talk.So Dapol are rising to the challenge….ambitious & brave.Good news.

[1466]

1 hour ago, gwrrob said:

Talking to Neil at Stafford and these are on the boat , all liveries, expected in shops in 8-10 weeks .

 

As soon as these go on sale the corridor versions work will start.

 I hope The Mainline and City Toplights will sell really well and open up the way to the corridor Toplights  . I expect the corridor Toplights to be extremely successful.

[Neal Ball]

5 hours ago, gwrrob said:

Talking to Neil at Stafford and these are on the boat , all liveries, expected in shops in 8-10 weeks .

 

As soon as these go on sale the corridor versions work will start.

 

Thanks Robin

[Michael Hodgson]

On 18/07/2023 at 17:22, MartinTrucks said:

Please pardon me for being thick, but does the 'twin cities' livery pre-date the shirtbutton?

Thanks,

Martin

The crest combines the coats of arms of two great cities :

 

That of Bristol:  motto Virtute et Industria

 

and that of the City of London.  The GWR didn't go that far, Paddington of course is in Westminster , you had to use the Metropolitan Railway to reach the City.  Motto:  Domine Dirige Nos (Gawd help us),

[Hal Nail]

9 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

The GWR didn't go that far, Paddington of course is in Westminster , you had to use the Metropolitan Railway to reach the City.  Motto:  Domine Dirige Nos (Gawd help us),

The had a goods depot at Smithfield though, hence the condensing version of the panniers.

[Coach bogie]

9 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

 

and that of the City of London.  The GWR didn't go that far, Paddington of course is in Westminster , you had to use the Metropolitan Railway to reach the City.  Motto:  Domine Dirige Nos (Gawd help us),

 

The GWR was joint owner with the Met from Paddington to Smithfield. London transport did not take the underground system over until the 1930's but the GWR retained their running rights.

 

The GWR jointly owned the 6 car Hammersmith and city units until they sold their half share to the Met at the 1923 grouping.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited September 25, 2023 by Coach bogie

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Coach bogie said:

 

The GWR was joint owner with the Met from Paddington to Smithfield. London transport did not take the underground system over until the 1930's but the GWR retained their running rights.

 

The GWR jointly owned the 6 car Hammersmith and city units until they sold their half share to the Met at the 1923 grouping.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Er not quite.  

 

The GWR sunbscribed capital to the construction of the original section of the Metropolitan Line from Praed St station but it was never a joint owner of the company and that line.  But it did work the Met Line until July 1863 when following a disagreement between the two companies the Met terminated the agreement and sought its own means  (from the GNR mainly) to operate its passenger trains.  

 

The GWR however had Running Powers over the Met from Praed St Junction (aka Bishops Road Jcn) - to Aldgate for Coaching trains and to Smithfield for Goods.  The former saw GWR through services severely curtailed from January 1926 at the request of the Met due to increasing congestion on the Circle between Praed St Jcn and the various stations where the GWR City trains terminated.  As is well known of course GWR through passenger train running to City destinations ended in September 1939 and presumably the Running Powers either lapsed, or were surrendered, subsequently.

 

The 'Goods' Running Powers to Smithfield were still used into the early 1960s but had no doubt ceased some time before the connections from the WR line to the H&C were removed in 1967.

 

What was jointly owned was the Hammersmith & City - between Green Lane Jcn (near Westbourne Park) and Hammersmith plus the branch from Latimer Road Jcn to Uxbridge Road Jcn on the West London Line.   And as noted abovrre there were jointly owned Met/GWR electric units at one time.   The H&C  was also used by H&C services and the GWR/WR coal train to Hammersmith.  The H&C was also used by the GWR operated Middle Circle service from the City via the H&C, Addison Road, and Earls Court to Mansion House (which ended quite early on but I have a GWR public timetable showing this service!), plus the short lived GWR services from Paddington via the Crystal Palace Loop to the LBSCR (the coal train also used the Crystal Palace Loop).

 

The section between Green Lane Jcn and Praed St Jcn was owned by teh GWR and the Met (H&C) had Running Powers over it  this section transferred to full LT ownership in 1967.

[MartinTrucks]

2 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

 

The GWR was joint owner with the Met from Paddington to Smithfield. London transport did not take the underground system over until the 1930's but the GWR retained their running rights.

 

The GWR jointly owned the 6 car Hammersmith and city units until they sold their half share to the Met at the 1923 grouping.

 

Mike Wiltshire

How far did the GWR passenger service run on the Met? - Moorgate, Liverpool Street, Aldgate?

 

Were the passenger trains hauled by steam all the way?

Thanks ,

Martin

[Miss Prism]

23 minutes ago, MartinTrucks said:

Were the passenger trains hauled by steam all the way?

 

Steam-hauled passenger trains on subsurface lines ceased in September 1905. (Steam and electric locos were changed at Paddington thereafter.)

 

[MartinTrucks]

2 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Steam-hauled passenger trains on subsurface lines ceased in September 1905. (Steam and electric locos were changed at Paddington thereafter.)

 

Thanks.

Martin

[Miss Prism]

A London-bound train at Southall. The Metro tank is 3596, with the unique high cab (rather ugly, imo). From the position of the train, I guess Southall is probably not its origin - it might have started at Reading, or even Oxford. (But, as Stationmaster Mike indicates below, a more likely origin is Windsor.)

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Miss Prism
mention of Windsor

[The Stationmaster]

5 hours ago, MartinTrucks said:

How far did the GWR passenger service run on the Met? - Moorgate, Liverpool Street, Aldgate?

 

Were the passenger trains hauled by steam all the way?

Thanks ,

Martin

GWR trains ran variously to Farringdon Road, Liverpool St, or Aldgate.  At one time there was a working from Reading (see below) but the usual GWR destinations/originating stations were Southall, Uxbridge (via West Drayton) and Windsor.  At various times there was also a train or trains from Staines and Maidenhead while the latter, over very short timetable periods, ran from either High Wycombe or Bourne End.  According to Peacock (Locomotion Papers No.48) the service reached a maximum of 13 trains in each direction daily in July of 1914.

 

Again according to Peacock GWR trains were steam hauled throughout until 1  January 1907 - the year after the Met was electrified.  However a temporary exception was made for two trains which remained steam hauled throughout until a date not stated by Peacock.  I don't know if this meant two train in each direction or one in each direction making a total of two.

 

The new City stock. reportedly entered service on 12 December 1921 

 

From looking at various timetables in my own collection it is clear that the service changed and evolved over the years.  The May 1866 GWR timetable shows 4 daily trains from Windsor and one from Westbourne Bridge (i.e.Wstbourne Park) to Aldersgate and five in the opposite direction from Aldersgate to Windsor.  Incidentally 'daily' means every day Monday - satyrday inclusive.

 

The situation was quite different in June 1891 with all trains terminating at/starting from Moorgate Street at the City end with turnover engine working to turn trains round.  The morning service had 1 from Windsor, 1 from Reading, and 2 from Uxbridge.  These returned westwards variously as 1 to Maidenhead, 2 to Southall and 1 to Uxbridge,  The afternoon service consisted of 1 train each from West Drayton, Southall, and Uxbrudge working back west.wards with 2 to Uxbridge and 1 to Windsor.

 

The final service (probably) was the July 1939 timetable which showed considerable change from earlier times and also reflected the change to half day working on Saturdays with the return trains from the City running earlier than they did Mon -Fri.  Destinations/starting stations in the City also varied with a train each from Windsor. Hayes. and Uxbridge to Liverpool St  and a train each from Southall and Uxbridge to Aldgate.   The three morning return trains from Liverpool St were one each to Southall and Uxbrldge while the third terminated at Paddington and ran empty to West London.

 

Trains to form the afternoon Down services all started as passenger trains from Paddington (Suburban) with both running to Liverpool St.  On Saturdays the two Down trains were one each to Southall and Uxbridge but Mon- Fti. one ran to Windsor while the other went to Uxbridge

 

 

[gwrrob]

Dip your bread chaps, they look delicious.

 

https://www.Dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/oo-gauge-gwr-toplight-mainline-city-coach-update?fbclid=IwAR1paVezP8QcxPdWZCtMIsmH6aC-_P1TtQxNLei3fJLVNyTfPblAfVZhxYw

[Hal Nail]

5 hours ago, gwrrob said:

Dip your bread chaps, they look delicious.

 

https://www.Dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/oo-gauge-gwr-toplight-mainline-city-coach-update?fbclid=IwAR1paVezP8QcxPdWZCtMIsmH6aC-_P1TtQxNLei3fJLVNyTfPblAfVZhxYw

 

As we suspected/hoped, the ones they are calling BR maroon are actually BR crimson, which makes sense given they were withdrawn around the time maroon was introduced.

[7802]

As much as I have no use for these, it has certainly whetted my appetite for the corridor versions whenever they appear.

[The Johnster]

The Glyncorrwg coaches, the last of this type surviving in service, were painted for the transfer in 1958, unlined maroon.  Previous coaches on this service included the last surviving in service Dean 4-wheelers and non-gangwayed clerestories, and had been spectacularly filthy, but the Mainline & Cities arrived after the provision of pithead baths at the collieries, and the men travelled clean.  The 3-coach set was very smartly kept until withdrawal in 1962, when the mountain track accessing the collieries was built up enough for a bus service replacing the train.

 

The Glyncorrwg branch would be laughed at as far too improbable if modelled and shown at an exhibition, worth checking out.

[Coach bogie]

9 hours ago, 7802 said:

As much as I have no use for these, it has certainly whetted my appetite for the corridor versions whenever they appear.

I have no use for a 6 car set......but I have ordered a full set. I feel I need to support Dapol on this one. They can be one of my 'funny' trains that I bring out from time to time.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[sjrixon]

2 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

I have no use for a 6 car set......but I have ordered a full set. I feel I need to support Dapol on this one. They can be one of my 'funny' trains that I bring out from time to time.

 

Mike Wiltshire

I feel the same...  It's a good place to be 😁

[Guardian]

17 hours ago, gwrrob said:

Dip your bread chaps, they look delicious.

 

https://www.Dapol.co.uk/blogs/news/oo-gauge-gwr-toplight-mainline-city-coach-update?fbclid=IwAR1paVezP8QcxPdWZCtMIsmH6aC-_P1TtQxNLei3fJLVNyTfPblAfVZhxYw

Very pleasing. That clarifies the liveries of sets 1, 3 and 6:

 

Set 1 - crimson with garter crest, era 2 until 1922;

Set 3 - GWR choc/cream twin city crest double lining 1928-34;

Set 6 - BR maroon era 5 as of 1957.

 

I wonder if Set 2 will be GWR choc/cram with garter crest 1922-27/28. Let's have a cup of tea...